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So a friend of mine and I were thinking of starting up a campaign and we were having a bit of a disagreement regarding the power of cultsits vs conscripts.

He feels that if we were doing a straight battle between cultists and conscripts or regular guard units then it would be too one sided (against the cultists). I'm having a hard time accepting that because, IMO cultists are basically guard models with access to marks and conscripts seem to be fodder. As I'm not a long time guard player or chaos player, I'd like to open it up to the veterans here and see what you guys think.

Are conscripts too much of a match for cultists, and if so what would you recommend to balance the scales?

Regular guard units > Cultists

Cultists > Conscripts

The advantage of 5+ save is outweighed by the inferior WS, BS and Ld of the conscripts, even without Marks being taken into account. The cultists are hitting them on 3s in cc, and have access to 2 cc weapons. The conscripts also need 5s to hit when shootiing.

 thegreatchimp wrote:
Regular guard units > Cultists

Cultists > Conscripts

The advantage of 5+ save is outweighed by the inferior WS, BS and Ld of the conscripts, even without Marks being taken into account. The cultists are hitting them on 3s in cc, and have access to 2 cc weapons. The conscripts also need 5s to hit when shootiing.

Couldn't say it better myself.

What about the fact that conscripts have access to higher numbers and frag grenades

From a fluff standpoint, I'd put my money on the Guard conscripts over the cultists any day.

On the tabletop, no idea lol. I have no idea what a cultist's stats are...

Cultists have Guardsmen stats, but with an Autopistol/CCW, 6+ save and no Frag Grenades. Cultists are 1pt more expensive than a Conscript, or 2pts more if you swap their Autopistol to an Autogun.

Conscripts have Guardsmen stats, but with WS/BS2 and Ld5.

If you use mathhammer to average it out with 20 Conscript vs 15 Pistol Cultists (equal points) then its pretty even. If the situation favours the Conscripts (cultists closing from max-range in an attempt to charge), the Conscripts should win out by virtue of thinning down the Cultists with shooting and then having superior numbers in combat. If the situation favours the Cultists (cultists get the charge at full strength), then the Conscripts will be needing snake-eyes to survive the morale check in the 1st round of combat.

Conscripts have way more going on for them. First of all, they're never without a character that solves their main problem - their low ld. And they have good shooting. That becomes great with orders considering their cost. Than, they have armor and nades.

Cultists have an edge in melee if they charge but if they get charged by conscripts, they loose and might get swept.

And if you add in Marks, cultists get better even. T4 Cultists baby!

For 6 ppm? They just become worse ork boyz.

I'm talking from my experience of running and facing both. Cultists are troop fillers. They have ld problems, can't tarpit, can't really kill anything - they have only limited potential of bauble-wrapping something due to the fact that you don't want to take too many cultists due to them not being too great for the points. They do score and they can survive going to ground in a ruin. I've seen blobs of 35 cultists accompanying Kharn. And they can't do their stuff. You're almost always better off with flesh hounds in that role.
Conscripts on the other hand are a steal for 3 ppm. They can tarpit almost anything, they definitely can bauble wrap and there's lots of stuff to bauble wrap for them. They're way more durable point-to-point and they can shoot well (for the points). Their downside is that you still have to take a platoon but if you do take one, there's no downside to taking a blob of 20-50 conscripts aside from their real money cost and the fact that fielding hordes sucks.

 Hansisaf wrote:
And if you add in Marks, cultists get better even. T4 Cultists baby!

Then to be fair the conscripts should be able to tool themselves up with either a commissar or a priest for stubborn/ld9 or zealot/ld7.

Still giving it to the conscripts

Yup, Conscripts all the way.

Voted cultists just because I love them.

I think it really comes down to the rest of their respective books and how they fit into armies. Whether the conscripts sit in cover or charge out into the open as fodder they complement the IG codex's static gun line play style. Cultists are taken mostly as an economy troop choice to try and balance out the over cost of Chaos elites; they are generally just used for holding an objective and camping in cover. If cultists leave cover they are dead. Cultist however have a variety of ways to end up fearless or otherwise mitigate the possibility of running away... Conscripts less so.

Ultimately conscripts seem redundant in an army already known for its economical troop choice, while cultists bring something necessary. I think Cultist are better, but to use them properly requires you to think more carefully. All of the Cultists short comings are relatively easy to mitigate and improve longevity.

 Inkubas wrote:
So a friend of mine and I were thinking of starting up a campaign and we were having a bit of a disagreement regarding the power of cultsits vs conscripts.

He feels that if we were doing a straight battle between cultists and conscripts or regular guard units then it would be too one sided (against the cultists). I'm having a hard time accepting that because, IMO cultists are basically guard models with access to marks and conscripts seem to be fodder. As I'm not a long time guard player or chaos player, I'd like to open it up to the veterans here and see what you guys think.

Are conscripts too much of a match for cultists, and if so what would you recommend to balance the scales?

Do the conscripts get access to commissars or, even better, Priests?

Because that's what they're for. You buy a cheap character to massively boost their stats, and they'll do far better.

Heck, a 35pt priest will make them fearless and a heck of a lot scarier in melee, not to mention if the guard player has officers nearby as well.

Of course, this would mean the cultists would have characters too, so I guess you're back at square one.


Are you purely just taking conscripts vs cultists? Because Conscripts have to be bought as part of a platoon, which means the guard player would have regular guardsmen and an officer team backing the conscripts up bare minimum.

 aka_mythos wrote:
Cultist however have a variety of ways to end up fearless or otherwise mitigate the possibility of running away... Conscripts less so.

Being Imperial, conscripts probably have more options to mitigate poor leadership. There are two extremely cost-effective solutions in the AM dex, plus you can ally in something from like a dozen other books.

If they get access to priests + orders then roughly even points of conscripts will destroy cultists!

 DoomMouse wrote:
If they get access to priests + orders then roughly even points of conscripts will destroy cultists!

Will the cultists get psychic leadership?

Conscripts are almost never without their dirt-cheap 25PPM Ministorum Priest (3 of which can be attached to any detachment, don't take up any kind of force org slot)

with that, they re-roll to hit and to wound generally and with their superior armor they will win.