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Early reports from Greek defence ministry speak the plane swerving out of control and going down into the sea. No indications of why this happened.

It seems highly likely the whole complement will have been lost -- over 60 passengers and crew.

Well that is no bueno. Condolences to the families of those lost.

That's a shame. I hope no dakkanaughts lost loved ones on the plane. As a weekly flier, even though I know that crashes are very rare, I still think about it every time I get on a plane.

 kronk wrote:
That's a shame. I hope no dakkanaughts lost loved ones on the plane. As a weekly flier, even though I know that crashes are very rare, I still think about it every time I get on a plane.

Don't fly as often as you, but still more then most. Always have that moment of fear as well. Going down in a plane is definitely one of the top 10 ways I don't want to bite it.

And once again, French people are affected.

Still no indication about what happened on French media outlets.

No doubt it was a bomb

 Freakazoitt wrote:
No doubt it was a bomb

A lot of doubt, as of yet. Lets hold off on absolutes until we actually know something more then a plane has disappeared.

 Freakazoitt wrote:
No doubt it was a bomb

Possible/Probable.

But a lot can go wrong on an airplane that isn't malicious.

Some Egyptian official states it is likely terrorism (according to a fox news alert on my phone).

At this point nobody knows.

Possible causes include a bomb, catastrophic failure of a major component, a fight in the cockpit, and deliberate suicide by the pilot. Maybe others. The cockpit fight and suicide scenarios could be a type of terrorism or not. Equipment failure is a normal hazard though thankfully pretty rare on modern planes if they are properly maintained.

Mostly likely cause is a bomb, the next is catastrophic failure, I reckon.

I don't want to go to speculation. I don't want to go to assumptions like others. But if you analyze this situation properly, the possibility of having a different action aboard, of having a terror attack, is higher than having a technical problem," Fathi said.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/18/middleeast/egyptair-flight-disappears/index.html

Bottom line: Nothing ruled out yet.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
At this point nobody knows.

Possible causes include a bomb, catastrophic failure of a major component, a fight in the cockpit, and deliberate suicide by the pilot. Maybe others. The cockpit fight and suicide scenarios could be a type of terrorism or not. Equipment failure is a normal hazard though thankfully pretty rare on modern planes if they are properly maintained.

Mostly likely cause is a bomb, the next is catastrophic failure, I reckon.

A bomb just sounds weird, given the description of the flight path. A sharp 90 degree turn, following by a full 360 degree turn, then the rapid decent before loss on the radar. You'd think a bombing would lead to disappearance, or rapid descent before breaking up, or even a sharp turn followed by descent. The multiple turns though, that's just weird.

 djones520 wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
At this point nobody knows.

Possible causes include a bomb, catastrophic failure of a major component, a fight in the cockpit, and deliberate suicide by the pilot. Maybe others. The cockpit fight and suicide scenarios could be a type of terrorism or not. Equipment failure is a normal hazard though thankfully pretty rare on modern planes if they are properly maintained.

Mostly likely cause is a bomb, the next is catastrophic failure, I reckon.

A bomb just sounds weird, given the description of the flight path. A sharp 90 degree turn, following by a full 360 degree turn, then the rapid decent before loss on the radar. You'd think a bombing would lead to disappearance, or rapid descent before breaking up, or even a sharp turn followed by descent. The multiple turns though, that's just weird.

The fact that it did a sharp 90... then a 360 gives more credence to engine failure and stall?

Or, could that be symptomatic to a fight in the cockpit?

 djones520 wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
At this point nobody knows.

Possible causes include a bomb, catastrophic failure of a major component, a fight in the cockpit, and deliberate suicide by the pilot. Maybe others. The cockpit fight and suicide scenarios could be a type of terrorism or not. Equipment failure is a normal hazard though thankfully pretty rare on modern planes if they are properly maintained.

Mostly likely cause is a bomb, the next is catastrophic failure, I reckon.

A bomb just sounds weird, given the description of the flight path. A sharp 90 degree turn, following by a full 360 degree turn, then the rapid decent before loss on the radar. You'd think a bombing would lead to disappearance, or rapid descent before breaking up, or even a sharp turn followed by descent. The multiple turns though, that's just weird.

Really would depend on size of bomb and damage done. And terror act =/= bomb automatically.

It could be a small bomb that seriously damages the flight controls in some way, throwing the plane out of control. The pilots attempt to regain control, causing erratic manoeuvres, before the plane goes into a fatal dive.

I am just speculating. Crash investigators need to find enough wreckage to start determining the cause of the crash.

CNN top ticker is stating that the "US is operating on initial theory that it was a bomb"...

I wonder if this is a reaction to the aftermath of that Bacalan massacre in Paris...

I've a friend who keeps inviting me to visit him in Cairo, but its a worry having planes hijacked or crashed.

I have always been fascinated by ancient Egypt since seeing the massive Tutankamun exhibition at the British Museum in 1968 (?) and I have longed to visit Egypt for years and years. But ever since the massacre at Luxor in 1997, it has been off my family's radar. Every time it looks like things are getting better, there is another upheaval or event.

This latest incident will not do the tourist industry any good at all.

Went to Egypt about 9 years ago, loved it to bits even if it was a bit hot, 46 degrees in valley of the kings but still awsome. Had to go in an armed convoy of coaches and technicals. Due to fear of attack on tourists.

That didn't put me off at the time but wouldn't travel to North Africa at all now sadly.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I've a friend who keeps inviting me to visit him in Cairo, but its a worry having planes hijacked or crashed.

Fly into Spain or Italy and just take a boat to Egypt.

It's nearly a thousand miles from southern Italy to northern Egypt.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
It's nearly a thousand miles from southern Italy to northern Egypt.

That's my geography fail for the day...

How 'bout flying into Cyprus, then boat over to Egypt.

 whembly wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
It's nearly a thousand miles from southern Italy to northern Egypt.

That's my geography fail for the day...

How 'bout flying into Cyprus, then boat over to Egypt.

Better to do it from Crete. Visit the land of my birth! And have better food while you're there.

Planes do not just crash normaly....

Very very rarely.
How many, twice Egypt, too many times. Too close, too much coincidence.

As someone who has flown with EgyptAir multiple times in the past, this hits pretty close to home. Between the hostage situation in March and now this crash, they can't seem to catch a break lately.

 djones520 wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
At this point nobody knows.

Possible causes include a bomb, catastrophic failure of a major component, a fight in the cockpit, and deliberate suicide by the pilot. Maybe others. The cockpit fight and suicide scenarios could be a type of terrorism or not. Equipment failure is a normal hazard though thankfully pretty rare on modern planes if they are properly maintained.

Mostly likely cause is a bomb, the next is catastrophic failure, I reckon.

A bomb just sounds weird, given the description of the flight path. A sharp 90 degree turn, following by a full 360 degree turn, then the rapid decent before loss on the radar. You'd think a bombing would lead to disappearance, or rapid descent before breaking up, or even a sharp turn followed by descent. The multiple turns though, that's just weird.

I don't know anything about aviation, but would those maneuvers possibly fit some attempt to evade something, like a missile?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I don't know anything about aviation, but would those maneuvers possibly fit some attempt to evade something, like a missile?

No. A commercial jet is not going to be evading a missile, it just can't maneuver hard enough to accomplish anything. Assuming the radar information is accurate the most likely explanation is a loss of control prior to the plane finally breaking up. A similar thing has happened in other crashes, the control surfaces are damaged enough that the plane isn't really controllable but the structure is still intact enough that it continues flying for a while on whatever random course the damage puts it on. But eventually either it hits the ground or suffers a complete structural failure and that's the end.

Consider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_123 for an example, the tail was torn off and the hydraulics for the remaining control surfaces were dead, leaving virtually no hope of anything but a fatal crash, but it took half an hour for the plane to finally hit the ground.

I doubt a standard commercial aircraft can even know a missile has been launched at it. You need special detectors.

Besides, there isn't any suggestion there was a ship or other aircraft in the area that might have launched a missile.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I doubt a standard commercial aircraft can even know a missile has been launched at it. You need special detectors.

These do exist for civilian aircraft:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Guard
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_Guardian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Aircraft_Missile_Protection_System

Now, this is unlikely to be relevant to this particular case, but it's possible that a commercial jet would know about an incoming missile.

Yes, the Israelis have had them on all their airliners for quite some time, I believe, but they are not standard or by any means widespread equipment. If I was going to make a bet on it, I would say the EgyptAir doesn't have them.

Armoured cockpit doors were introduced first on Israeli planes and are now standard worldwide. Perhaps missile defence systems will go the same way.

A large civil airliner is very vulnerable to a good AA missile, though.