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I wasn't thinking of another aircraft but rather something from the ground, like the speculated G2A missile that took out that one plane around the Ukraine last year (or was it the year before? Yeesh time flies).

But fair point about the maneuverability of commercial airliners. The only reason I suggested it was that it seems like the only thing to me that could cause sudden swerving while also taking out the plane fast enough to prevent a distress signal from being manually sent out by the pilots.

Decompression could also do that though, I suppose.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
The only reason I suggested it was that it seems like the only thing to me that could cause sudden swerving while also taking out the plane fast enough to prevent a distress signal from being manually sent out by the pilots.

There's a rule in dealing with aviation emergencies: aviate, navigate, communicate, in that order of priority. The absolute #1 priority is fly the airplane. It's nice if you can get off a "mayday" call/ask for clearance to deviate from your assigned route/etc but not at the expense of dealing with the emergency. People have crashed planes because they've been so focused on dealing with the least-important parts of the problem that they lose control of the plane and die, even when the emergency was something minor*. And if something has just gone spectacularly wrong (such as a major structural failure, loss of control, etc) the pilots are going to have so much going on just desperately trying to maintain anything resembling controlled flight that there isn't much attention left for trivial things like informing someone on the ground (who can't help you at all) that you have a problem.

*Such as having a door on a small plane pop open, a complete non-event if you don't let it distract you.

Decompression could also do that though, I suppose.

This is actually somewhat unlikely. The pilots have emergency oxygen masks, training in using them, and training in executing a maximum-rate descent to a safe altitude if they lose pressurization. The kind of catastrophic damage that could prevent this is probably going to be immediately fatal anyway.

Commercial aircraft are surprisingly mobile, a Boeing 707 is fully capable of doing a barrel roll without crashing.

Decompression shouldn't be an issue. Because the pilots will instinctively mask up and bring the plane to a lower altitude.

A full 360 turn could mean that the ailerons were damaged and jammed. And that could probably stall the plane and bring it down.

 Peregrine wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
The only reason I suggested it was that it seems like the only thing to me that could cause sudden swerving while also taking out the plane fast enough to prevent a distress signal from being manually sent out by the pilots.

There's a rule in dealing with aviation emergencies: aviate, navigate, communicate, in that order of priority. The absolute #1 priority is fly the airplane. It's nice if you can get off a "mayday" call/ask for clearance to deviate from your assigned route/etc but not at the expense of dealing with the emergency. People have crashed planes because they've been so focused on dealing with the least-important parts of the problem that they lose control of the plane and die, even when the emergency was something minor*. And if something has just gone spectacularly wrong (such as a major structural failure, loss of control, etc) the pilots are going to have so much going on just desperately trying to maintain anything resembling controlled flight that there isn't much attention left for trivial things like informing someone on the ground (who can't help you at all) that you have a problem.

*Such as having a door on a small plane pop open, a complete non-event if you don't let it distract you.

Decompression could also do that though, I suppose.

This is actually somewhat unlikely. The pilots have emergency oxygen masks, training in using them, and training in executing a maximum-rate descent to a safe altitude if they lose pressurization. The kind of catastrophic damage that could prevent this is probably going to be immediately fatal anyway.

Fair enough.

Wasn't there an incident with a large commercial plane not too long ago of a plane being depressurized and killing everyone on board, then crashing? Or was that just speculation?

 welshhoppo wrote:
Commercial aircraft are surprisingly mobile, a Boeing 707 is fully capable of doing a barrel roll without crashing.

Only because a barrel roll is a low-g maneuver if done right (and a good way to kill yourself if you aren't an experienced test pilot). If you look at the video you can see that the 707 demonstration you're thinking of was a pretty lazy roll, not the kind of high-g maneuver you need to make to have any hope of evading an incoming missile.

A full 360 turn could mean that the ailerons were damaged and jammed. And that could probably stall the plane and bring it down.

I think you're a bit confused here. The ailerons are for roll, not pitch. Jamming the ailerons at full deflection (or at least enough that the pilot couldn't counter it opposite rudder or differential thrust) would roll the plane into a rapidly increasing bank (eventually a complete roll, if control isn't lost before that point) along a straight path, not a 360* turn. Stalling the plane would require jamming the elevator or pitch trim, not the ailerons.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Yes, the Israelis have had them on all their airliners for quite some time, I believe, but they are not standard or by any means widespread equipment. If I was going to make a bet on it, I would say the EgyptAir doesn't have them.

Armoured cockpit doors were introduced first on Israeli planes and are now standard worldwide. Perhaps missile defence systems will go the same way.

A large civil airliner is very vulnerable to a good AA missile, though.

There air port and plane security has always been ahead of the game.
No ones messed with them in years.

Given current climate, and such the chance of a hostile involvement is still thee.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Wasn't there an incident with a large commercial plane not too long ago of a plane being depressurized and killing everyone on board, then crashing? Or was that just speculation?

You may be thinking of this incident: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

In this case (and in others like it) pressurization was lost slowly, with hypoxia sneaking up on the crew and incapacitating them before they were aware of the problem. It's a situation that would have been very easy to get out of if anyone had realized that they had a problem, but unfortunately one of the symptoms of hypoxia is losing the ability to think clearly. With a sudden loss of pressurization there's no sneaking, you instantly know you have a problem and grab your oxygen mask.

 Peregrine wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
Commercial aircraft are surprisingly mobile, a Boeing 707 is fully capable of doing a barrel roll without crashing.

Only because a barrel roll is a low-g maneuver if done right (and a good way to kill yourself if you aren't an experienced test pilot). If you look at the video you can see that the 707 demonstration you're thinking of was a pretty lazy roll, not the kind of high-g maneuver you need to make to have any hope of evading an incoming missile.

A full 360 turn could mean that the ailerons were damaged and jammed. And that could probably stall the plane and bring it down.

I think you're a bit confused here. The ailerons are for roll, not pitch. Jamming the ailerons at full deflection (or at least enough that the pilot couldn't counter it opposite rudder or differential thrust) would roll the plane into a rapidly increasing bank (eventually a complete roll, if control isn't lost before that point) along a straight path, not a 360* turn. Stalling the plane would require jamming the elevator or pitch trim, not the ailerons.

The elevator was the one I was thinking of. I'm fairly certain I've seen it happen before.

 whembly wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
At this point nobody knows.

Possible causes include a bomb, catastrophic failure of a major component, a fight in the cockpit, and deliberate suicide by the pilot. Maybe others. The cockpit fight and suicide scenarios could be a type of terrorism or not. Equipment failure is a normal hazard though thankfully pretty rare on modern planes if they are properly maintained.

Mostly likely cause is a bomb, the next is catastrophic failure, I reckon.

A bomb just sounds weird, given the description of the flight path. A sharp 90 degree turn, following by a full 360 degree turn, then the rapid decent before loss on the radar. You'd think a bombing would lead to disappearance, or rapid descent before breaking up, or even a sharp turn followed by descent. The multiple turns though, that's just weird.

The fact that it did a sharp 90... then a 360 gives more credence to engine failure and stall?

Or, could that be symptomatic to a fight in the cockpit?

Heard a pilot state that the sharp 90 is indicative of losing wing on that side, which could also lead to the plane being inverted, hence going the 360 opposite direction (to same damaged wing side). He stated a bomb on the interior placed to damage where the wing meets the fuselage would cause the type of damage that would in turn cause that turning sequence.

CNN is now indicating that that the smoke alarm aboard the plane tripped before it crashed...

I guess they found the black box?

 whembly wrote:
CNN is now indicating that that the smoke alarm aboard the plane tripped before it crashed...

I guess they found the black box?

I think it was via the same satellite communication that they used to narrow down the possible locations of the Malaysia flight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_Communications_Addressing_and_Reporting_System

 d-usa wrote:

 whembly wrote:
CNN is now indicating that that the smoke alarm aboard the plane tripped before it crashed...

I guess they found the black box?

I think it was via the same satellite communication that they used to narrow down the possible locations of the Malaysia flight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_Communications_Addressing_and_Reporting_System

Cool... I wasn't aware that these aircrafts could communicate those kinds of data.

But, now that I'm thinking things through... that makes sense for it to broadcast all kinds of "I'm here" ping with "here's my health status".