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Just something I always wondered - I thought I read somewhere that the Emperor has Vulcan's regeneration ability (which from Vulcan lives shows that it is very very powerful). If so how did Horus permanently wound him?

Horus used a daemon weapon infused with the power of all four Chaos powers. The attack wasn't just a physical wound.

Didnt vulkan have a magic ball that kept him alive then at the end of the book someone hit him with his ball and make his brain work again?

I've never seen it said that the emperor had vulcans ability...But regardless, it is the golden throne that is stopping him regenerating.

Vulcan is a Perpetual - he literally cannot be killed, and if he is, he returns shortly afterward, unharmed (except, apparently, against mental/emotional trauma, as suffered at the hands of Kurze for months in the Iron Maze). I haven't heard that the Emperor is also a Perpetual, but it would make sense.

If Emps is a Perpetual, the reason he is "mortally wounded" is because he is being kept alive. If they just let the poor bastard actually die, he would come back all brand-spanking-new.

That would require removal from the Golden Throne, and Terra being flooded with daemons, as well as the probable extinction of the Astronomicon.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Vulcan is a Perpetual - he literally cannot be killed, and if he is, he returns shortly afterward, unharmed (except, apparently, against mental/emotional trauma, as suffered at the hands of Kurze for months in the Iron Maze). I haven't heard that the Emperor is also a Perpetual, but it would make sense.

*****Vulcan Lives spoiler alert******



I dug around and found that John Grammaticus name drops the Emperor as another perpetual in Vulcan Lives. (Which makes sense of where I heard it since I've listened to the audio of Vulcan Lives about 3 full times in my car).

Ah, I vaguely remember that now. They need to do more with Grammaticus, I feel like he's going to play some kind of role on Terra when the final assault comes.

Also - note that just because you're a perpetual doesn't mean nothing ever under any circumstances can kill you.

Damian Prytanis was sent to try and kill Vulcan for dead and good by people who knew he was a perpetual - and as a perpetual himself he can be reasonably expected to know if the plan was a viable one.

Given that Horus was essentially an avatar of the four chaos gods at the point he stabbed the Emperor, then yes, it could definitely have been a mortal wound. Whether he could have recovered or not, we don't know, but at that point he was definitely wielding enough power to have burned the Emperor out of existence, just as the Emperor did to him.


I would anticipate the Perpetual we're far more likely to see more of is Oll. Ollianus has an already known and very important job to do during the siege of terra, and given what he's currently carrying, I suspect it's rather more important that previously described in the background.

Not to mention that Horus also used a weapon that was supposedly able to kill beings that are Perpetuals - one of the few, if not only weapons of its type ever to exist. It was also imbued with part of the Emperor's power (since, if memory serves, the Emperor was the one who created the weapon Horus used - ironic, right?)

 IllumiNini wrote:
Not to mention that Horus also used a weapon that was supposedly able to kill beings that are Perpetuals - one of the few, if not only weapons of its type ever to exist. It was also imbued with part of the Emperor's power (since, if memory serves, the Emperor was the one who created the weapon Horus used - ironic, right?)

The big e def created the weapon which stopped Vulkan regenerating... For a bit. So a 4 god weapon may just be way more efficient. But still not permanent

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
If Emps is a Perpetual, the reason he is "mortally wounded" is because he is being kept alive. If they just let the poor bastard actually die, he would come back all brand-spanking-new.

Maybe, maybe not. The fluff in The Lost & The Damned is old now but as far as I know it hasn't yet been retconned, and it claims that Horus separated the Emperor's soul from his body, which effectively ended his immortality. The explanation for him telling Dorn to inter his body on the Golden Throne at the time was that his body was still a very effective conduit into the physical realm for his psychic power.

 Orblivion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
If Emps is a Perpetual, the reason he is "mortally wounded" is because he is being kept alive. If they just let the poor bastard actually die, he would come back all brand-spanking-new.

Maybe, maybe not. The fluff in The Lost & The Damned is old now but as far as I know it hasn't yet been retconned, and it claims that Horus separated the Emperor's soul from his body, which effectively ended his immortality. The explanation for him telling Dorn to inter his body on the Golden Throne at the time was that his body was still a very effective conduit into the physical realm for his psychic power.

This makes an awfull lot of sence to me. I've not read this myself (was it chapter approved or did you find it somewhere else?) but it kind of implies that the thousands of psykers that are sacrifised to keep the Astronomican burning actually help maintain the Emperors vessels connection to his soul too, or functions as a proxy soul. The concept of souls in 40k has never really been explained much to my knowledge, only that it's closely linked with emotions, psychic potential and the warp.

Maybe it wasnt Horus. Dun dun dunn.

Wasn't Horus just so beefed up on Chaos juice after his walk in the warp mentioned in Vengeful Spirit that he was just that damned baddass to be able to wound the Emperor.

I haven't seen any mention of any weapon used other than his normal load out, which I guess was the Talon and Worldbreaker. The art work seems to show this as well.

Perpetuals can still die, they just have the knack of coming back from it. Perhaps the Emp knew that if he died totally died the Imperium would be thrown into turmoil. He would be dead for an unknown amount of time and the Astronomicon would get turned off. So, not wishing to taqke the risk, he asks Dorn to put him into the Golden Throne until Dorn caries on his task of completing the Webway project at which point he can switch the Throne off, The Emperor can die and then be reborn .... DORN .... !!

Plus, Perpetual status is apparently something that can be taken away by external forces. John Grammaticus loses his Perpetual status, and I'll bet heavily that Ollanius Pius loses his somewhere between now and stumbling across Horus on the Vengeful Spirit.

Perhaps the Emperor is no longer a Perpetual at all...

For me it was always essentially two Gods going at each other. Logic and common sense tend to fly out the window.....

Nomeny wrote:
That would require removal from the Golden Throne, and Terra being flooded with daemons, as well as the probable extinction of the Astronomicon.

This. The big E may regenerate but even the short time he does will destroy the entire imperium. He is both holding the broken webway portal shut (will flood demons into Terra if opened) and guiding the astronomicon (would collapse the imperium travel). Even if he comes too he would have to rebuild the entire human race.

With the power of plot advancement!

I assume it meant he would die and be regenerated but those with him at the time thought he would die and so they shoved him in the GT and he's in a state of undeath.

Cptn_Cronssant wrote:
I assume it meant he would die and be regenerated but those with him at the time thought he would die and so they shoved him in the GT and he's in a state of undeath.

Except Emperor himself gave instructions on plugging him into the throne and how to turn it into life support system...

tneva82 wrote:

Cptn_Cronssant wrote:
I assume it meant he would die and be regenerated but those with him at the time thought he would die and so they shoved him in the GT and he's in a state of undeath.

Except Emperor himself gave instructions on plugging him into the throne and how to turn it into life support system...

I think the hole directly into the Warp spilling daemons onto Terra might have been more what he was worried about at the time

TheWanderer wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Cptn_Cronssant wrote:
I assume it meant he would die and be regenerated but those with him at the time thought he would die and so they shoved him in the GT and he's in a state of undeath.

Except Emperor himself gave instructions on plugging him into the throne and how to turn it into life support system...

I think the hole directly into the Warp spilling daemons onto Terra might have been more what he was worried about at the time

True that. I was just pointing out it could hardly be "those with him thought he would die and so they shoved him in the GT...".

They were putting him into it because he _ordered_ them to do so. He was and still is the ruler of the Imperium so if he told to do they did it.

It's actually rather simple - the wounding of the Emperor was written up before any of the primarchs was more than a name on their's legions list of progenitors. The stuff about Vulcan's regen was written long after the initial story had been put into place. Everything else is retcons and attempts to justify the current situation.

Spetulhu wrote:
Horus used a daemon weapon infused with the power of all four Chaos powers. The attack wasn't just a physical wound.

This is the right answer.

I don't remember the Vulcan v Kurse fight well enough, but I think Vulkan regenerated many times without dying first. So it would mean they don't 'nee' to die before regenerating.

It could also be that the Empereor is not a perpetual ... he's 'something else'. He's certainly a lot 'more' than Grammaticus and Grammaticus could be incorrect in his guess as to what the Emperor is. It's weirder with Vulkan though, his it's vastly simpler if Vulkan 'inherited' the Emperor's perpetuality than Vulkan just randomly is one

Spetulhu wrote:
Horus used a daemon weapon infused with the power of all four Chaos powers. The attack wasn't just a physical wound.

I think they won't go this way, when the Heresy (finally) ends. Right now Horus and the Emperor have equal powers, given to them by the Chaos Gods. Which means they can K.O. each other. The bit about Horus being possessed by the Four is old fluff, no longer canon. Just like the part about old earth Shamans.

Lets also realize that this "perpetual" stuff is relatively recent in 40k fluff, while the battle with Horus and the Emperor being reliant on the Golden Throne is decades older. A lot of the HH stuff is starting to get really kind of silly. The best answer in this case is "because Chaos".

Holding the Webway closed is rather new fluff too. It used to be that he was necessary for the Astronomicon, but that's started making less sense because Terra had it with the Emperor romping around the galaxy too.

But the Webway breach allows him to be kept in an eternal state of non-regenerating undeath.