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 thekingofkings wrote:

hobojebus wrote:

Davor wrote:

 Talys wrote:
You could argue for X-Wing, but it's a very different sort of hobby -- it focuses on a game with prepainted gamepieces, rather than collections of miniatures that you model and paint.

Yes it's a different game where you don't have to paint and model, BUT allot of people still convert and repaint their minis anyways. So it's the same there.

Also while Xwing is oranges, and 40K is apples (no pun intended) they are both fruit (the same gaming hobby, playing with miniatures) and I am sure a lot of people left 40K/GW to Xwing for a clear concise ruleset they can play with little fuss setting up a game. So yes they can be compared. Money going to Xwing is not going to GW.

Come to the ffg x-wing and armada forums and most will tell you how they've switched from 40k, some because they no longer have to paint but most because it's a better game from a company that actively listens to its players and tries to fix problems in months not years.

It's also cheaper for the £750 it'd cost to make a 2k force you can buy three factions in xwing.

And we have an active conversion and painting sub forum.

When 7th came out a good portion of those that left started playing x-wing.

Xwing may be a great game, but if you dont have any interest in either star wars or dogfighting games then it really will not "scratch the itch" at all. I would never go to xwing because I dont like dogfighting and spaceships, it does not matter if it is the best game ever made, its not a fantasy game.

This. Even if you do like Star Wars (like me), X-wing and 40k are two completely different game. If they made Imperial Assault into a full-scale wargame, I'd look into it. I prefer infantry battles to dogfighting.

 notprop wrote:
By any margin a company that has persistently returned 10%+ profits for a decade while maintaining it's turnover during a rather rocky trading period would be considered a success. All of that in spite of some rather bad PR.

So positives to look at:

- New CEO has started to reverse previous bad PR
- Trading has produced higher than expected margins
- Shares continue to pay dividend
- GW remains a cash rich business
- Customers seem (from usually quite hostile Dakka) to be upbeat up new GW releases

So yeah, I don't think Hobbojebus really has much of an idea of what he's talking about.

I've got to agree with all of this.

Most of what I thought was wrong with GW is being quite rapidly turned around by Rountree.

Kirby left them with a disgruntled userbase, falling sales but a much more efficient cost of goods. GW have been profitable for years, at the expense of falling sales.

All Rountree has to do is preserve the cost of goods ratio while finding ways to sell more stuff.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 notprop wrote:
By any margin a company that has persistently returned 10%+ profits for a decade while maintaining it's turnover during a rather rocky trading period would be considered a success. All of that in spite of some rather bad PR.

So positives to look at:

- New CEO has started to reverse previous bad PR
- Trading has produced higher than expected margins
- Shares continue to pay dividend
- GW remains a cash rich business
- Customers seem (from usually quite hostile Dakka) to be upbeat up new GW releases

So yeah, I don't think Hobbojebus really has much of an idea of what he's talking about.

I've got to agree with all of this.

Most of what I thought was wrong with GW is being quite rapidly turned around by Rountree.

Kirby left them with a disgruntled userbase, falling sales but a much more efficient cost of goods. GW have been profitable for years, at the expense of falling sales.

All Rountree has to do is preserve the cost of goods ratio while finding ways to sell more stuff.

And judging by the sheer speed a lot of the new products are going out of stock (Orrucks, Sylvaneth etc), I'd say the sales are increasing. And a lot more quickly then I think anyone was expecting.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

And judging by the sheer speed a lot of the new products are going out of stock (Orrucks, Sylvaneth etc), I'd say the sales are increasing. And a lot more quickly then I think anyone was expecting.

Or they are just producing less of it to avoid warehousing costs and take advantage of cheaper molds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 EnTyme wrote:


This. Even if you do like Star Wars (like me), X-wing and 40k are two completely different game. If they made Imperial Assault into a full-scale wargame, I'd look into it. I prefer infantry battles to dogfighting.

Imperial Assault has rules for a full-scale wargame in it (well, a skirmish game). I've never used them though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

So all I'm really seeing here is their profits are up and above expectations, even with cost cutting and actually being intelligent enough to licence out their IP. Hobo's the sky is falling and his laughing with glee about their imminent demise are quite.. how should I put this.. stupid?

The thing is, are profits up because the business is growing, or because of a few one-time hits?

Total War must be bringing in a lot of cash, as did plastic Heresy, and the Warhammer Quest remake.

They can't do any of those again. Of course it seems this years one-time hit is going to be Blood Bowl, which I'm not sure about. People love it, but it's grown into it's own thing in the decade it's been ignored, there are dozens of companies making teams for it and there's a living ruleset with huge tournament attendance. Will those people jump back to GW's remake, or will they stick with what they've got?

I'd love for GW to actually turn things round; it is getting there (adding points to AOS for instance), but is it going to be too little too late if it hits that critical point?

hobojebus wrote:

There's literally no reason to have a positive outlook on the state of the company.

Who is saying we have a positive outlook on the state of GW? Never once did I or anyone else here said that. All we are saying is GW is not going bankrupt any time soon.

Herzlos wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

And judging by the sheer speed a lot of the new products are going out of stock (Orrucks, Sylvaneth etc), I'd say the sales are increasing. And a lot more quickly then I think anyone was expecting.

Or they are just producing less of it to avoid warehousing costs and take advantage of cheaper molds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 EnTyme wrote:


This. Even if you do like Star Wars (like me), X-wing and 40k are two completely different game. If they made Imperial Assault into a full-scale wargame, I'd look into it. I prefer infantry battles to dogfighting.

Imperial Assault has rules for a full-scale wargame in it (well, a skirmish game). I've never used them though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

So all I'm really seeing here is their profits are up and above expectations, even with cost cutting and actually being intelligent enough to licence out their IP. Hobo's the sky is falling and his laughing with glee about their imminent demise are quite.. how should I put this.. stupid?

The thing is, are profits up because the business is growing, or because of a few one-time hits?

Total War must be bringing in a lot of cash, as did plastic Heresy, and the Warhammer Quest remake.

They can't do any of those again. Of course it seems this years one-time hit is going to be Blood Bowl, which I'm not sure about. People love it, but it's grown into it's own thing in the decade it's been ignored, there are dozens of companies making teams for it and there's a living ruleset with huge tournament attendance. Will those people jump back to GW's remake, or will they stick with what they've got?

I'd love for GW to actually turn things round; it is getting there (adding points to AOS for instance), but is it going to be too little too late if it hits that critical point?

Well of course they can do those again. The Calth and Silver Tower sets got a great reception. Silver Tower especially i would expect to have a tonne of expansions to come. And if they keep the quality of Silver Tower, i would expect them to sell. Blood Bowl is a whole different animal and there is no point speculating until it's release. But they've done the important thing and started the hype building long before the actual release. But you've ignored what i said about the Orruks and the Sylvaneth's. Both of which have been immediate sell outs on the pre-orders. If it was only one hit wonders, then that wouldn't have happened. And that dicatates to me, some form of growth occuring.

Herzlos wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 EnTyme wrote:


This. Even if you do like Star Wars (like me), X-wing and 40k are two completely different game. If they made Imperial Assault into a full-scale wargame, I'd look into it. I prefer infantry battles to dogfighting.

Imperial Assault has rules for a full-scale wargame in it (well, a skirmish game). I've never used them though.

May have to look into that. Are the pieces pre-painted like the X-wing stuff? Assembling/painting is half the fun to me.

It's going to be an interesting time for AoS in the next 12 months. Sales may be picking up but we don't know whether this is short term and related to a few releases (Orcs / AoSQ / Wood Elves) which are all firmly based on old WFB armies (rather than the worse selling slayers/Sigmarines/Chaos) or whether there is a long term trend.

Some additional factors that will likely affect AoS in the future, the issues I can see are:-

1) The number of new players is still fairly stagnant, from my ,rather limited, sample I have seen 40k players getting hacked off with the mess that the game is in and moving across. With the forthcoming ET series for 40k and a revamp of the rules rumoured then when these hit those that moved across to AoS may jump ship back to 40K to and the AoS sales increase may then only be temporary (especially if 40K is effectively AoS in a Space as I suspect it may end up being). There is no overall growing base of players therefore it makes GW more vulnerable to shocks.

2) With recession and a tanking £ in the UK there could be both upsides and downsides for GW. The recession in the UK is likely to see retail spend drop as people save more and limit themselves to spending on essentials only, hence high price expensive miniatures will struggle to sell. On the other hand a poor sterling value may increase the sales value of models in other countries if they keep the pre-brexit exchange rates. So the question is where the majority of AoS players are. A more UKcentric community might result in a sales shock on AoS more so than if AoS sells better in other countries. Anecdotal evidence suggests that AoS is better received in the UK (although that might be down to a much more dominating market share) hence the current UK economy woes could affect AoS more, whereas if 40K is more global then this may boost sales figures for this game. Other negative impacts could be that a low £ and rising fuel costs may trigger higher inflation, and higher manufacturing costs (transport, materials, energy). Given that I think that GW have currently 'spent out' it's customer base (meaning that there is a cap most people will spend on hobbies in any given time on average) that will mean either further prices increases, more efficiencies (unlikely given they have already done this), or lower profits.

Hence I'd be cautious on any temporary sales improvement in AoS. Although they have changed things around in some areas (although I still think prices of new models are too high and discouraging for new players, the proverbial sticker shock) there are still a number of risks that may not fully work themselves out for a few years.

 EnTyme wrote:

May have to look into that. Are the pieces pre-painted like the X-wing stuff? Assembling/painting is half the fun to me.

I think beyond the AT-ST everything is pre-assembled (it's all softish plastic) but it's not pre-painted. Storm troopers are in white plastic so pretty quick to paint.
It's well worth buying it for the board game side anyway. About the same price as the AoS starter box.

I just want to say thanks to jono for finding the links and saving me the trouble.

hobojebus wrote:
I just want to say thanks to jono for finding the links and saving me the trouble.

No worries mate