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I currently play against my friend who only play Dark Eldar, whilst I alternate Space Marine or Necrons. Could anyone please provide some strategy tips to counter his plan? He uses Scourges quite often, and generally embarks them in a raider. He also uses large numbers of Kabalites, a squad of Incubi, and recently discovered that a Kronos and Talos together are quite annoying for my strategies. Beastmasters and beast are also favorites of his.

You can't put scourges in raiders to my knowledge. Plus, any ignores cover (tomb blades, ignores cover psychic powers) will destroy his paper thin transports.

A squadron of Stalkers will utterly annihilate his transports, which the Dark Eldar rely on to be at all capable of any damage.

Scourges on raiders? That kinda defeats the purpose of having deepstrike capable heavy weapons guys

Rate of fire is key. Lots of tesla destructors should scythe through raiders pretty damn fast.


Chronus and Talos together are nigh impossible to kill (especially in a Dark Artisan formation) - so don't try. You really, really need to be throwing instant death at them and I don't think you've got easy access to that. Bogging them down with Wraiths might work well.

Scourge are Jump Infantry so can't be placed in a Raider

With Space Marines, Grav will do for the vehicles and Talos, though Feel No Pain, especially if there's a Cronos nearby bumping it to a 4+, will make that a slightly harder proposition. Sternguard with their Poison 2+ rounds will help with that though. Kabalites in the open die pretty quickly to Bolters and drop podding in a Drednaught or any squad with heavy flamers will do real damage to guys in transports.

Necrons are an army that my DE usually struggle against, getting through that 4+ reanimation is a real pain. A Canoptic Harvest with massed warriors tends to be a pretty good answer.

Yeah, even mass bolter/gauss flayer fire can ruin an DE's day.

Next time he puts Scourges in a Raider, ask him to show you the special rule in the Scourge's entry that allows them (as Jump infantry) to embark in a transport. He won't find it, cuz it doesn't exist.

I thought Jump Infantry could go into transports because they still count as Infantry?

Thanks to everyone who gave counter-tactics for this, I didn't expect so many helpful replies, but that's Dakka! I did think it was a bit strange that scourges were embarked in his raider, i'll be sure to inform him. I'm tired of several dark lances flying in from that thing with no snap shots needed.

Ignatius: I've never used stalkers before, however, I know they can have some devastating weapons. Would you recommend I equip a heat ray?

locarno24: Aren't tesla destructors only accessible to the tesseract vault and obelisk? Either way, I use tesla carbines, so i highly agree with your point. The Kronos-Talos combo he uses gives me that exact problem, so I'll try some heavy-hitting wraiths. But I think the Gauss special rule would be of some benefit as well, yes?

Imateria: I rarely use grav weapons, but it's definitely worth a tshot, as they are also pretty powerful. Last game we played I used Sternguards, but i may have made a strategical error in assigning them to fight the kabalites, which generally don't bother me unless they go unnoticed and attack en masse. I'll relocate them to a larger threat next battle. Yet again, I made my Dreadnought attack the Talos last game, so i'll be sure to uses him for anti-vehicle next time around. The flamer template weapons damage both the vehicle and people inside, yes? If so, then we'll be equipping quite a few of those too. My Necrons will be ready with a 4+ RP next time, along with possibly a Rez Orb. Canoptek Harvests are very powerful, but i've never used one because of my infrequent use of scarabs. But, he does enjoy his cc...

One more question however, He also enjoys using reavers in cc, and generally end upon my troop within his first or second turn. Any ideas for that? I'm also a little suspicious of them, as he says that if they don't shoot or cc, they can move up to 48" within one turn. Seems a bit much if you ask me.
Yet again, thanks to all of you for your help, i'll definitely utilize your advice when playing my games. This really does show me how helpful Dakka is.

 JustaerinAtTheWall wrote:

One more question however, He also enjoys using reavers in cc, and generally end upon my troop within his first or second turn. Any ideas for that? I'm also a little suspicious of them, as he says that if they don't shoot or cc, they can move up to 48" within one turn. Seems a bit much if you ask me.
Yet again, thanks to all of you for your help, i'll definitely utilize your advice when playing my games. This really does show me how helpful Dakka is.

This rule you can actually see for yourself, as it is in the main rule book. Check the section about bikes, specifically the note about Eldar (and Dark Eldar ) bikes. They can indeed make a 12" move, then a 36" turboboost (48" total), but cannot shoot or assault in that turn.

Aren't tesla destructors only accessible to the tesseract vault and obelisk? Either way, I use tesla carbines, so i highly agree with your point. The Kronos-Talos combo he uses gives me that exact problem, so I'll try some heavy-hitting wraiths. But I think the Gauss special rule would be of some benefit as well, yes?

The superheavy version is the Tesla Sphere (5 shots). Destructors are the 4 shot twin-linked version on Annihalation Barges or slung under your various Scythe attack craft.

Gauss is next to irrelevant against Dark Eldar. Raiders and Venoms are already subject to glancing hits from gauss flayers.... Not that I'm bashing massed small arms - dark elder hate massed small arms - but tesla is a better investment of points than gauss.

Yet again, I made my Dreadnought attack the Talos last game, so i'll be sure to uses him for anti-vehicle next time around. The flamer template weapons damage both the vehicle and people inside, yes? If so, then we'll be equipping quite a few of those too.

The rule is called No Escape - open-topped transports hit by a template take extra hits and can gut the squad inside.

And yes, Dreadnoughts - especially ironclads, contemptors and similar AV13 walkers - can make a right mess of a talos. With only S7, they're essentially reduced to using Smash to hurt a walker, which means only one attack each, and S10 AP2 means no trouble hurting them.

According to my friend, Scourges are Jump units and they take up 2 spaces instead of on; The Raider holds 10 units. I don't know if this is how that works, but we are playing 7e, if that helps.

 JustaerinAtTheWall wrote:
According to my friend, Scourges are Jump units and they take up 2 spaces instead of on; The Raider holds 10 units. I don't know if this is how that works, but we are playing 7e, if that helps.

Yes, Jump units are bulky which count as 2 for the purposes of Transport capacity. There are some Super Heavy vehicles from Forge World that are allowed to carry units OTHER than Infantry.
The DE codex, however, has no Transports that can do this. Raiders and Venoms follow the normal rules for transporting models (i.e. Infantry only)
I don't have my BRB right now, but if you check the Transport Vehicle section it is pretty clear that only Infantry (not including Jump- or Jetpack-) can embark.
Super Heavy Transports can carry other units though, as detailed in the Super Heavy Transport section of the BRB.

--

As Galef said it's either under the Jump Infantry rules or the Tarnsport rules but Jump and Jet Pack Infantry can't embark on transports. That said, Scourges are leathel anyway. Dark Lances and even Blasters (the short range Assault version of a Dark Lance) are a bit of a waste of points on them, Heat Lances and Haywire Blasters are mroe dangerous to vehicles and cheaper.

A Dreadnaught is a tough match up for a Talos in close combat, but if the Talos are being run in squads (or worse, a Corpstheif Claw) then weight of dice will win that fight easily.

The No Escape rule means that the vehicle takes a hit from the Flamer and the unit inside takes D6 hits. Since DE transports are AV10 all around (unless your friend is running a Tantalus) you can even pen them and blow them up rolling a 6 twice (it's happened to me before) with a heavy flamer.

Reavers die to the same strategy as above, Drop Pod something with a Heavy Flamer next to them on turn 1 and burn them all to a crisp. You'll be wounding on 3's,, 4's if they get +1T from the Combat Drugs, ignoring their armour and 3+ Jink from Skilled Rider and they wont have FnP on Turn 1.

Scarabs cab be a very effective way of dealing with transports, when you've got 7 or 8 of them on the table surround the transport and kill it, also leaving no where for the embarked squad to go so killing that as well.

The bulky rule does indeed mean they count as 2 models each, but jump infantry can't embark on transports. Same reason why you won't ever see Eldar Swooping Hawks or Warp Spiders in a transport.

If the BRB isn't clear on this (I'm pretty sure it is) then the recent FAQ definitely is.

Furthermore, even if Scourges were allowed to be in that transport, the rules (and definitely the recent FAQ) clearly state transported models count as junking if their transport jinks, so no shenanigans there either, so check that with your buddy.

To throw in one more tactic (this time from the recent Death from the Skies book!), you could try the flyer attack pattern where they get ignores cover. Would need three models but if you have them anyway, they could REALLY bring the pain as he desperately needs jink.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Check p.80 of the rule book (e book on ipad), 1st line of the 2nd paragraph of 'Transport Capacity' on the Transports page in the Vehicles section of the book.

Clearly states Infantry can embark, and that Jump and Jet Pack types can't.

locarno24 wrote:
The rule is called No Escape - open-topped transports hit by a template take extra hits and can gut the squad inside.

This is incredibly effective against Raiders. It results in d6 hits per template, which means even a couple of low-strength templates can generate enough wounds to wreck the occupants or at least force a morale test. High strength weapons are devastating. I just played a game in which the only thing that really went my way was roasting 2 squads of warriors and one of wyches before they could disembark. Heavy flamers in Rhinos did it this time, but I've pulled the same stunt with hand flamers on jump troops.

I'll be sure to add lots of flamers to my guys, seems to be a VERY popular plan. I've checked the page Bhazakhain cited and it does check out... naturally. I'll let my amigo know as soon as I see him. As for the Flyer Attack Pattern, I don't currently own that book, so i don't know too much about that. I don't use scarabs very often, but i've gone over their stats once more, and definitely think they're worth a try. Now I need to find a place to buy lots of scarabs....

Also, any good plans to counter Incubi? My strategy has always been shoot them before they can charge ya. But in the event of a cc, i'm usually crushed.


Yet again, thank you all so much for your help, as for as much as I paint, i've only been playing for about a year now, so the rules are a little hard to remember. Any specific way to read the rules? I haven't ventured into terrain or army building yet, and only read special rules when I need them. But the psyker phase is a little daunting to me, because of the amount of steps and specifications.

Praetorians or Lichguard are your best bet to dealing with Incubi in clsoe combat, for Marines it's Terminators with Thuderhammers and Stormshields and hope enough survive to hit back.

Shoot down the vehicles first, then tesla the frack out of the guys. De infantry or anything other then incubi are t3 5+. Tesla anything roasts them. (I like tesla over gauss cause of extra hits - and force enough saves and they die anyway)

For incubi - hit them with wraiths or again tesla them down. Force as many saves as possible and watch them burn. Same goes for the talos/chronos. Focus on the chronos first, make it take 30 saves in a round and it's gonna fail enough to go away, then finish off its pal the same way.

Use night scythes or dooms to deal with fliers, (your str 7 vrs armor 10 wins) tie up and wreck anything else with a canoptek harvest. RP wraiths are gonna present a huge hurdle and should tear apart whatever they hit.

Good luck

Tomb Blades are literally the best unit ever for your issues.
1. They're naturally fast
2. S5 AP4 Ignores Cover means that vehicles AND infantry are dead.
3. They're not even a tax, and you like taking them anyway for the most part unless you need points for a deathstar.
4. Any infantry they don't kill they can easily charge and finish off. Seriously.

Also, any good plans to counter Incubi? My strategy has always been shoot them before they can charge ya. But in the event of a cc, i'm usually crushed.

Lychguard with shields can make a nice mess of them, especially with a cryptek following behind - They have WS5 and strike first, meaning they murder space marines - but will bounce off a high invulnerable save and T5.

The other thing to try is canoptek units. Charging incubi will cause huge numbers of wounds, but scarabs have huge numbers of wounds....and fearless. Best of all - once again, go for Wraiths. if you want to kill something, they're....okay. But if you want to bog something down in a combat for the rest of the game, they're amazing. T5, 3++ save and fearless with two wounds each, and the speed to intercept threats. Even a full incubi squad will struggle to kill one in a round of combat.

Also, for marines, once again consider dreadnoughts. I don't think incubi can have haywire grenades, and if they can it's just the klaivex (squad leader) who's optional. Aside from him, the squad is 22 point, non fearless models with no invulnerable save and no way to hurt a walker with AV12+. Watching an ironclad king kong his way through them is very satisfying.

As for the Flyer Attack Pattern, I don't currently own that book, so i don't know too much about that.

There is a very nice necron flyer wing in there which specialises in exterminating HQ choices. Plus, there are two formations which make the already lethal doom scythe even nastier. Giving the death ray access to ignores cover is some scary stuff.

It's the BRB > Transports > Transport Capacity section that says no Jump in Transports