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Howdy guys. I'm pretty new to all this, getting back into the game after a long break.

I played 5th edition briefly but haven't played since. I'm putting together a list out of the stuff I have that I plan to take down to a LGS and jam a few games to pick up the rules. Before I finish painting things I want to know if its worth while doing.

I was looking at running a complete lions blade strike force in drop pods, one of my tactical squads is armed with a multi-melta, meltagun and a sergeant with a combi-melta. Is this worth doing or should I just run other weapons? I was looking at taking out tanks with them, but now hull points are a thing I don't know whether they'll do anything. I believe most vehicles have 2+ hull points so am I likely to get the job done with these guys? (baring in mind that one of them is a heavy weapon and needs a 6 on the first attack). I'm concerned i'll take a hull point and then the vehicles will run off to the other side of the table, and I can't exactly give chase.


Would appreciate any advise as don't have any practical experience of this edition, and very little of the game on the whole.

Running a full Lions Blade with 10 man tac squads? Ooft that's a heavy troops tax. Imo you'd be better off running multiple 5 man units with meltaguns and combi-meltas. They wont be firing snapshots and youre not sinking over 150 points into each unit.

An alternative to melta squads is taking grav cannons. Not specifically designed for taking out vehicles but they can do a damn good job of it. They also wont suffer as much for moving as theyre salvo, and they're move versatile than melta weapons being able to deal with MEQ/TEQ too

Don't take Multimeltas on non-Relentless platforms. Their short range combined with snap shots if you move makes them pretty bad. I like to run a Drop Pod with a melta and combimelta in it. Works okay as a throwaway tank-killer unit (I've had them kill Pask twice!). Plasma/combiplasma can be okay too, but I usually run these in a Rhino or Razorback rather than a pod.

Thanks for the feedback. So with melta/combimelta, am I likely to take out a tank or am I looking at dropping 2 units of 5 on the same vehicle? If that's the case I may just be better taking a combined arms detachment and using a squad of veterans.

So far, I'm looking at giving my assault squad eviscerators, and having a command squad that packs 4 meltas and a librarian. Was looking at doing a tac squad with meltas aswell, (mainly because I modelled them that way when I was much younger) but have enough tactical marines to just ignore those models and use more plasma orientated squads. I'm just a bit concerned about getting wrecked by land raiders and monstrous creatures.

I like full 10 man MM/M, c-melta tac squads. But I’m an old fashioned Ultramarine like that. All the re-rolls help with the snap firing, and sometimes having the MM deployed downfield can be very nice. You aren’t always moving either.

How many melta shots it takes to reliably pop a tank is a fuzzy question. But generally the answer is going to be four-ish.

1 out of 3 shots is going to miss.
Even with the melta rule, sometimes you won’t pen.
Cover/jink/invuln saves
You could roll something useless on the damage chart, or be targeting a superheavy that doesn’t care what you roll.

While you might want to have all your AV concentrated into a vet squad, there are advantages of dispersing it as well. Things like knights can only point their shield at one side, so attacking from two directions is a good idea.

With a full lions blade you can afford to run multiple 5-man melta/combi-melta units and it not be a particularly big issue that you have to fire at one tank with multiple squads.
That being said, there are plenty of other ways to bring AT to the table. What do you plan on running the assault marines, devastators and auxiliary choices with?

 Brother Payne wrote:
With a full lions blade you can afford to run multiple 5-man melta/combi-melta units and it not be a particularly big issue that you have to fire at one tank with multiple squads.
That being said, there are plenty of other ways to bring AT to the table. What do you plan on running the assault marines, devastators and auxiliary choices with?

Battle Demi Company (1355pts)
[u]

Assault Squad (250pts)
9x Assault Space Marine (126pts), Bolt pistol, Chainsword, 2x Eviscerator (50pts), Frag and Krak Grenades, Jump Packs (30pts)
Assault Space Marine Sergeant (44pts)
Bolt Pistol, Combat Shield (5pts), Power Axe (15pts), Veteran Sergeant (10pts)

Chaplain (105pts)
Jump Pack (15pts),

Command Squad (180pts)
Apothecary (15pts), 4x Meltagun (40pts), 5x Veterans
Drop Pod (35pts)

Devastator Squad (70pts)
Sergeant (14pts) 4x Space Marine (56pts)

Dreadnought (145pts)
Power Fist,Storm Bolter, Multi-Melta, Smoke Launchers and Searchlight
Drop Pod (45pts)

Tactical Squad (200pts)
Sergeant (14pts), Heavy Bolter (10pts), Plasmagun (15pts), 9x Tactical Marine (126pts)
Drop Pod (35pts)


Tactical Squad (200pts)
Sergeant (14pts), Heavy Bolter (10pts), Plasmagun (15pts), 9x Tactical Marine (126pts)
Drop Pod (35pts)

Tactical Squad (205pts)
Sergeant (24pts) Combi-Melta (10pts) Meltagun (10pts), Multi-Melta (10pts), 9x Tactical Marine (126pts)
Drop Pod (35pts)

Librarian (90pts)
Psychic Hood
Deathwing, Fearless, Grim Resolve, Hatred (Chaos Space Marines), Independent Character
Power Armour
Bolt Pistol, Force Sword, Frag and Krak Grenades, Infantry
Mastery Level 2 (25pts)

Scout Squad (55pts)
Bolt pistol, 4x Boltguns, Frag and Krak Grenades, 4x Scouts (44pts)
Scout Sergeant (11pts)
Boltgun, Chainsword

This is the list as it stands. I wasn't sure how to use the devastators, multimeltas felt powerful but would likely have a turn of just being shot at before they done anything. Plan was to walk them on late game and try and grab objectives, scouts are to infiltrate and sit on an objective.
Once I've had an intro game to get my head around the rules, I'm thinking of putting together a local league. I'm pretty confident my list is gonna thrash armies like Guard, and I feel that the amount of dice I'm rolling will give me a decent game against heavy armoured infantry, but my concern is being tabled by somebody rocking up with 2 imperial knights.







Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nevelon wrote:
I like full 10 man MM/M, c-melta tac squads. But I’m an old fashioned Ultramarine like that. All the re-rolls help with the snap firing, and sometimes having the MM deployed downfield can be very nice. You aren’t always moving either.

How many melta shots it takes to reliably pop a tank is a fuzzy question. But generally the answer is going to be four-ish.

1 out of 3 shots is going to miss.
Even with the melta rule, sometimes you won’t pen.
Cover/jink/invuln saves
You could roll something useless on the damage chart, or be targeting a superheavy that doesn’t care what you roll.

While you might want to have all your AV concentrated into a vet squad, there are advantages of dispersing it as well. Things like knights can only point their shield at one side, so attacking from two directions is a good idea.

I think that being able to combat squad the unit can help optimise your shots, meaning that if the transport is still standing, you can send those bolters elsewhere. Makes using multiple units on one target more worthwhile. The big benefit of drop pods is that they give you the strike initiative, so you can afford to send multiple units after one, if its a large enough threat. The downside is that they have no mobility once on the board, so your opponent can just run away from the threats.

Also, thanks a lot for addressing the question of taking out tanks. I forgot about Jink saves, makes things a bit more of a struggle for me. Can try and shift to the weakest armour points using drop pods at least.

Firstly this doesn't look like a complete lions blade; it looks like a demi company formation and an allies detatchment (which can't actually be the same as your primary)? A full lions blade would have a chaplain, captain, 2 assault, 2 dev and 6 tac squads, free transports for each, and an additional auxiliary choice.

As it stands that assault squad is a huuuge points sink for a very fragile unit. Imo assault squads aren't really worth it outside of formations like the skyhammer annihilation force. At least not tooled up. Split it in two at the minimum, working towards filling out the second demi battle company.

The devastators with no kit are a bit of a waste of what has become an excellent marine unit. They're best of equipt with 4 of the same heavy weapon and stuck in a drop pod (preferably grav cannons, MM would work to if you wanted.
Drop the command squad and use the extra points freed up by the transports to kit them out and get a second squad.

The tac squads as well have a large amount of points stuck into them. If you're taking this many tac marines and combat squadding them, you may as well be running 6 5-man units. They then get free transports too.

I'm not sure what points limit you're going for; that would affect which auxiliary and/or command formations you could take. Worst comes to worst just take the 10th company formation with minimum scouts. If you have space and still want the librarian, you'll either have to take an extra two of them to make up a conclave, get two additional scouts squads to make up a CAD (but then you may as well pay the extra 20pts for a conclave), or take an allied detatchment with just the one scout squad in a addition to the librarian.



Sorry that was such a long post. If you want more ideas on how to run full lions blades just have a flick through the army list forum. Hope that helped at all

Lion's Blade is fulfilled by 1 Demi Company plus the scouts running as a minimum 10th Co. auxiliary. I think DA have an option for Librarian as an optional Command selection. He's got Lion's Blade for full BS overwatch, but not the free transports from a second Demi Company. Going to 5-man squads would almost do the trick with the models listed, assuming there's another HQ and a stash of extra transports on a shelf ready to join up.

A bigger question for me is the absence of bikes and speeders. DA have so many cool ways to field them, and getting the Lion's Blade bonus with a single Demi Company instead of having to sink points into a full Gladius-style army frees up tons of points to spend on sweet auxiliary formations. Taking one of the Ravenwing formations instead of the scouts to qualify for the Lion's Blade frees them up to be Troops in a CAD to get access to the things Lion's Blade leaves out, especially Black Knights.

What else is in the collection? Is this a pure drop pod infantry army, or are there Rhinos, bikes, and speeders hanging around somewhere?

 MacPhail wrote:
Lion's Blade is fulfilled by 1 Demi Company plus the scouts running as a minimum 10th Co. auxiliary. I think DA have an option for Librarian as an optional Command selection. He's got Lion's Blade for full BS overwatch, but not the free transports from a second Demi Company. Going to 5-man squads would almost do the trick with the models listed, assuming there's another HQ and a stash of extra transports on a shelf ready to join up.

A bigger question for me is the absence of bikes and speeders. DA have so many cool ways to field them, and getting the Lion's Blade bonus with a single Demi Company instead of having to sink points into a full Gladius-style army frees up tons of points to spend on sweet auxiliary formations. Taking one of the Ravenwing formations instead of the scouts to qualify for the Lion's Blade frees them up to be Troops in a CAD to get access to the things Lion's Blade leaves out, especially Black Knights.

What else is in the collection? Is this a pure drop pod infantry army, or are there Rhinos, bikes, and speeders hanging around somewhere?

Ah, hadn't realised they can take a single single libby as a command option. I was confused by the OP's use of the term "full" lions blade. Taking a single DBC and using the points on bikes is a great suggestion. BK are one of (if not) the best units in the DA codex, and yeah unfortunately you'd have to go outside the lions blade to do this. It wouldn't be too hard though - simply but the librarian on a bike and take a RW strike force detatchment.

If you want Black Knights, you really should skip the LBSF entirely. There is just too much tax in the Lion's Blade to take another detachment on the side (the second detachment does not get the perks of the Lion's Blade). However, the Lion's Blade can take both the Ravenwing Attack Squadron and the Ravenwing Support Squadron, which are really solid. The Support Squadron can overwatch for your bike units, and in a Lion's Blade, it will do so at full BS as long as it doesn't jink. Take Support Squadron, 2 full Attack Squadrons (with 6 bikes, attack bike, and land speeder), combat squad them, and go crazy!

I sold my bikes a while back when moving house, just kept a box of 5 drop pods and a citadel case full of infantry am characters. Sold all my terminators aswell at that point. Makes my options a bit linear for list building sadly, but I don't drive so I am limited to what I can carry anyway.

I really like the idea of having a devastater squad packin multimeltas, but really hate the snapshots when they land. I've not played since before grab guns were released so no idea what they do. Somebody mentioned they're salvo so can still fire properly, so could be good. Are grab guns good against vehicles? I keep thinking a group of veterans with meltas would just be better (hence the command squad), and at that point I should just be CAD.

I always seem to forget to combat squad when it could probably improve my game quite a bit, I tend to like having the 10 guys together because it feels more buff. Once I've had a few games it's something I intend to focus more on, when at right to make that call.

I agree the assault squad is pricey, thinking of taking flamers instead of the anti tank stuff, spend 10 PTA on extras instead of the large amount I currently am. If I drop them to infantry killers, it opens up points for my devastators to have multimeltas, so have command squad, devastators and dreadnaught as dedicated vehicle destroyers. I guess the assault squad have I assault to destroy the vehicle so don't actually get the "blow up the transport then charge the unit" style value from them

Also, sorry if I said full LBSF and confused people, I'd love to run a full one with free drop pods of 5 man teams. It's better due to the free transport, but don't own and can't carry enough drop pods.

All good, dw about the confusion.

Regarding grav cannons, they're salvo 3/5 (so can fire 3 shots when coming down in a pod). They wound on whatever the target's armour save is (eg. Terminators on 2s, guardsmen on 5s) and ignore armour. Against vehicles they glance on 6s and any glance causes an immobilised result. That means two 6s to pen and any 3HP vehicle is dead (repeated immobilised does a second HP instead). This makes them rather good at AT as well as MEQ/TEQ hunting. Oh and they can reroll to wound or penetrate

Combat squadding is generally a good idea (although no in kill point style missions), especially if you're mixing and matching heavy/specialist weapon rolls - like you have done with heavy bolter and plas. This allows you to shoot the heavy bolter at cheap infantry, and the plas at a unit with better armour.

Imo definitely make the AM cheaper; they're not a particularly durable unit so keep them cheap. I like the melta command squad in a pod though.

Hope that helps

 Brother Payne wrote:
All good, dw about the confusion.

Regarding grav cannons, they're salvo 3/5 (so can fire 3 shots when coming down in a pod). They wound on whatever the target's armour save is (eg. Terminators on 2s, guardsmen on 5s) and ignore armour. Against vehicles they glance on 6s and any glance causes an immobilised result. That means two 6s to pen and any 3HP vehicle is dead (repeated immobilised does a second HP instead). This makes them rather good at AT as well as MEQ/TEQ hunting. Oh and they can reroll to wound or penetrate

Combat squadding is generally a good idea (although no in kill point style missions), especially if you're mixing and matching heavy/specialist weapon rolls - like you have done with heavy bolter and plas. This allows you to shoot the heavy bolter at cheap infantry, and the plas at a unit with better armour.

Imo definitely make the AM cheaper; they're not a particularly durable unit so keep them cheap. I like the melta command squad in a pod though.

Hope that helps

Thanks.

Grav guns sound pretty powerful, will have to dig around and see if I can find any. I put the heavy bolter with the plasma because they aren't blast so can snapshot and 3 shots at s5 are still quite likely to take out high armour guys alongside all the bolter fire. Deffo gonna see if I can pick up a grav cannon or few. The feedback I'm getting on assault marines mean I can save myself buying eviscerators at least.

Lions blade strike force is 2 battle Demi companies.
A command squad with apothecary, 5 grav guns and the relentless banner is AWESOME! I attach a librarian rolling on div for re-rolling and possible ignores cover. A beefed up chapter master to tank wounds also and you have a pretty deadly unit that fires overwatch at BS4 (in a lionsblade strike force detachment) and people aren't used to seeing.

A devastator squad with 4 grav cannons in a drop pod also. Sure , they only throw out 12 shots when they arrive, but they have grav amps and are usually just chilling after they arrive.
Then usually have a troop squad or 2 with melta/combi melta dropping in next to armor and the rest of troops w a plasma or grav gun drop down and camp objectives firing overwatch at full BS too. Only army I have had any issue killing is Tau as they outrage/out shoot me and kill a lot with interceptor ..
I gave other Dev squad lascannons and razorback w/ Lascannon to try to help with that.. Worked ok... Gonna try a few rhinos w/flamers to try to mitigate losses from interceptor and run JP assault marines w/ flamers to drop close and force them to shoot up or get charged.

I've taken on board the feedback you guys have given, I've taken away the assault squads tools and used the points on my devastators instead.

Had a look into grav guns, can't believe they're 35pts each! Going to try out starting with devastators on the table, hide them out of LOS or stick them in a ruin or something. Give them missile launchers to use the range. Didn't have the points spare or the drop pods to tool them up with grav cannons (plus don't have the models for it).



Battle Demi Company (1355pts)


Assault Squad (195pts)

9x Assault Space Marine (126pts), Jump Packs (30pts)
Assault Space Marine Sergeant (39pts) - Bolt Pistol, Power Sword (15pts), Veteran Sergeant (10pts)


Chaplain (105pts)
Bolt Pistol, Crozius Arcanum, Frag and Krak Grenades, Jump Pack (15pts), Rosarius


Command Squad (180pts)
Apothecary (15pts), 4x Combi-Melta (40pts), 5x Veterans, Drop Pod (35pts)


Devastator Squad (135pts)

Armorium Cherub (5pts), 4x Missile Launcher (60pts), 4x Space Marine (56pts)
Sergeant (14pts)



Dreadnought (100pts)
Multi-Melta, Power Fist, Storm Bolter, Drop Pod (35pts)


Tactical Squad (200pts)
Heavy Bolter (10pts), Plasmagun (15pts), 9x Tactical Marine (126pts), Sergeant (14pts), Drop Pod (35pts)


Tactical Squad (200pts)

Heavy Bolter (10pts), Plasmagun (15pts),9x Tactical Marine (126pts), Sergeant (14pts), Drop Pod (35pts)


Tactical Squad (205pts)

Meltagun (10pts), Multi-Melta (10pts), 9x Tactical Marine (126pts), Sergeant (24pts), Combi-Melta (10pts), Drop Pod (35pts)


Librarian (90pts)

Force Sword, Psyker Level 2 (25pts)


Scout Squad (55pts)

4x Boltguns, 4x Scouts (44pts), Scout Sergeant (11pts)

Grav cannons can easily remove 35 pts of stuff off the table, though. And they make your squad a legitimate threat.

Don't count out taking a command squad with the sacred banner and gravguns.