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Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

A Fistful of Kung-Fu



This is another of the Osprey Blue Books from their war gaming series. The focus of this one is to try and capture the feel of Hong Kong action movies. I have to admit, that seemed pretty broad to me as Hong Kong action movies range from Wuxia, to Kung-fu, to Heroic Bloodshed, and many points in between! I found it difficult to believe that one book could cover all of that ground!

Then I read more and realized that the game is simply another re-skin of the Song of Blades and heroes rules a system long on special rules to create flavor, but broad in scope. Therefore, some of what I have to say about this ruleset covers the parent one as well. Each of them have a few of their own twists and turns though.

What I Liked
I really enjoyed the fact that this game had a lot of detail about the setting of the games and how to “use” the settings to create more dynamic action. In miniature games, it is all too easy to simply move forward and fight! However, in this game there are all sorts of cool and cinematic things you can do with setting itself, all culled from the big screen. For example, you can take a block of Ice at a fish market, and use it to extend your movement by using it as a skateboard. Not bad fitting those rules into a 64 page booklet!

I also liked the fact that combat results are on a scaled basis. The combat is an opposed roll, which is my preferred method. However, the effects of the attack are on a sliding scale based on how well you out-performed your opponent. Therefore, the more you beat them by, the better the result. Plus, it allows you to do more than simply take an enemy model out of the fight. You can stun them, knock-them back, wound them, pulled down their pants and humble them, etc. In fact, in a few scenarios, you must Humble your foe before you can finish them off!

Finally, the Song of Blade and Heroes initiative system is a decent Risk vs. Reward and Push Your Luck style system. When you activate a model, you can roll 1 to 3 dice. For each success you gain, you can act. For each failure your opponent may react. Plus, too many failures results in a turnover of activation. I would like to see this in practice, but in theory it means you have to weight how much your model really needs to do and choose accordingly, AND both players are invested in the results of the roll.

Things I Do Not Like
I hate the level of abstraction in these rules. I know it is cool and in vogue to limit stats and use Special Abilities instead, but man this game take sit too far in my opinion. You use your Quality rating to do anything that isn’t fighting, and Combat to do anything that is fighting. Therefore, your Hero Cop can shoot and do Kung Fu as well as a Wuxia master, and your Wuxia master can theoretically shoot just as well as the Hero cop. Plus, models who are Q2, C2 will be better than everyone at everything all the time. I can sort of let that slide in a game like Fistful of Kung-fu due to its cinematic nature, because Extras in movies die by the bucketful. However, as an overall mechanic I just can’t stomach it.



Plus, that leads me to the other drawback of the system. Pages and pages of special rules! They all have cutesy names too! This seems excessive to me and an overreaction to the over complicated stat lines of ages past. There is a balance between the two extremes and Fistful of Kung-Fu does not have it. You will want detailed notes for your models to make sure you know what does what, but you also need detail notes on the terrain (as it all has special rules too), weapons, and know what your opponents can and can not do. I know this is the fashion at the moment, but it really is a trend I do not like. Every model doesn’t need 4 special rules to make it unique! If you had a differentiated stat line you wouldn’t need to have so many special rules.

I feel like they are using special rules to create flavor instead of making mechanics to add flavor. For example, the mechanics for combat allow you to do many things to your opponent in a flavorful way by outperforming them with degrees of success. No special rules (as they are baked into the mechanics) are needed to add additional flavor or capabilities.

Also, what is the deal with only straight line movement allowed? If you are moving blocks of troops around, sure that makes sense. These are individual people doing things. The straight line only movement is weird and ‘gamey’ to me.

Finally, I love the use of terrain as a “prop” for the action and more than just cover. However, that means this will be a very terrain heavy game. Thankfully it is only 3x3.

Now, to be really shallow, the game had a very limited selection of terrain and models for the photos. This is true in other Osprey books in the series, but it really stood out to me in this one. The shots were of the same 4 miniatures with the same car over and over again. The Northstar Miniature range for this game is pretty cool and more of it deserved to be highlighted.


These ones!

Meh and Other Uncertainties
The game has several scenarios again ripped from the silver screen. They are relatively broad. Have complications, and a small campaign element to them. They seem to be rather re-playable if a bit generic. The fun is how you use your models to interact with the terrain to achieve the objectives.

You can use a CHI Level as a resource to perform certain actions like CHI Leaps, re-rolls, and avoid injury. However, it is a limited resource and must be used wisely. However, winning games allows the winners to earn more CHI points in a campaign.

Like many of these short Osprey Games, the end conditions are pretty straight forward and lack nuance. Kill or be killed, with the Morale rules being kind of just there in a sentence or two.

The game has some basic campaign rules and some sample retinues. Most importantly, it has rules for building your own custom warbands for the game. So, if you really want to recreate the Eastern Condors or a scene from The bride with White Hair you can!

Overall Thoughts
A Fistful of King-Fu seems like it would be fun to play for an evening or two, but just doesn’t have the chops for serious play. I have a feeling it would get old and kinda samey feeling pretty quick. I just can’t see this being a staple game that you replay over and over again. I think a creative and free-wheeling group of players could have a lot of fun with the system for a short period of time.

Ultimately, the two stats and large list of Special Rules that are the staple of the engine end up being kind of shallow and uninteresting. The rules lack a depth of mechanics and try to replace depth with chrome. I don’t see that as being a winning combination for repeat play and the game itself feels all sizzle and no steak.

There are some cool ideas that I will steal for my own games, but overall I was unsatisfied.

Ultimately, it tries to do too much and be all things to all people instead of just being its own game. I am unsure if this is a criticism of the engine or specific to A Fistful of Kung-Fu. I will have to see as I will be looking at Of Gods and Mortals next. That game uses the same game engine.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/08 20:59:21


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Thanks for the review.

I've got this rulebook myself. I think the best feature is the action/turnover dice rolling mechanic, which looks like it will promote a very fast-moving style of game.

In terms of chrome versus depth, it doesn't worry me so much. I see skirmish games as being the kind of thing you build only small armies for and have fun occasionally, not in-depth systems. They work best for prepared scenarios.

For example, a cop and a wuxia master can both shoot equally well, but in the scenario I would give the cop a good lot of guns and give the wuxia guy some special rules to max out his kung fu capability and no guns. To me that deals with the issue.

It's a Hong Kong action movie simulator after all, like 7TV is a simulator for 60s/70s SpyFi TV series.


I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
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Kilkrazy wrote:

In terms of chrome versus depth, it doesn't worry me so much. I see skirmish games as being the kind of thing you build only small armies for and have fun occasionally, not in-depth systems. They work best for prepared scenarios.


I have a bit of a different approach. I like big battles, but I think skirmish games with good campaign systems can be most engaging game systems. SBH is even simpler than this (though it has a few good supplements) but it has been a very rewarding system for our club for over 5 years. We've done at least 4 campaigns, each consisting of around 12 games per player. Based on the review above, I'm not sure if FoKF has the same replay-ability, but a simple well-designed game can be a very long term proposition.

I do agree that prepared scenarios are the way to go. Also, lots of repeated one-off battles can be less than inspirational with simple rulesets, but in campaign mode it's a whole different animal.


Easy E wrote:A Fistful of Kung-Fu
Overall Thoughts
A Fistful of King-Fu seems like it would be fun to play for an evening or two, but just doesn’t have the chops for serious play. I have a feeling it would get old and kinda samey feeling pretty quick. I just can’t see this being a staple game that you replay over and over again. I think a creative and free-wheeling group of players could have a lot of fun with the system for a short period of time.

Ultimately, the two stats and large list of Special Rules that are the staple of the engine end up being kind of shallow and uninteresting. The rules lack a depth of mechanics and try to replace depth with chrome. I don’t see that as being a winning combination for repeat play and the game itself feels all sizzle and no steak.

There are some cool ideas that I will steal for my own games, but overall I was unsatisfied.

Ultimately, it tries to do too much and be all things to all people instead of just being its own game. I am unsure if this is a criticism of the engine or specific to A Fistful of Kung-Fu. I will have to see as I will be looking at Of Gods and Mortals next. That game uses the same game engine.

Thanks for the review. Have you played a game yet? I'd be curious to see if the flaws you describe kill the game or end up as minor annoyances. I'd also like to hear how it gameplay goes VS SBH.

I've got the rules but haven't done anything with them yet. I haven't got much interest in the martial arts movie thing, but it seems like Hong-Kong gritty crime movies with cops, yakuza, terrorists, etc would be well suited to this ruleset. At least in theory, I like the idea of adding gunplay without having to use Flying Lead which I find a bit over-complicates the SBH mechanics.

I don't recall exactly, but doesn't this have the reaction rules (originally from OGAM) whereby a missed activation dice gives your opponent a reaction? I think that has been a relatively successful addition to the SBH rules engine as it has since shown up in Fighting Fungi and Advanced SBH. As for different charachters fighting and shooting. Doesn't a character have to have a ranged shooting ability to do so? That still leaves shooty hero cops with high H2H abilities, but I'm fairly sure there are special rules to give your H2H specialists a bit of an edge.

Lastly, if you don't like the abstraction in these rules, you will probably also not like OGAM which is just SBH+a God/worship mechanic+Squad mechanic+Reaction system. I liked OGAM well enough, but I was using it as a classic fantasy combat system and I haven't gone back to it since I discovered Dragon Rampant which is a much better system for that use. There are a few exceptions such as his upcoming "Rogue Stars" but almost all of Andrea's rules are based on SBH and have 2-stat profiles + special rules. It's kind of the basis for his success but as you point out it's not a flavor that everyone enjoys.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/06/02 16:22:28


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Easy E wrote:A Fistful of Kung-Fu
Overall Thoughts
Some boerderline ranty stuff about A Fistful of King-Fu


Elif wrote:Thanks for the review. Have you played a game yet? I'd be curious to see if the flaws you describe kill the game or end up as minor annoyances. I'd also like to hear how it gameplay goes VS SBH.

I've got the rules but haven't done anything with them yet. I haven't got much interest in the martial arts movie thing, but it seems like Hong-Kong gritty crime movies with cops, yakuza, terrorists, etc would be well suited to this ruleset. At least in theory, I like the idea of adding gunplay without having to use Flying Lead which I find a bit over-complicates the SBH mechanics.

I don't recall exactly, but doesn't this have the reaction rules (originally from OGAM) whereby a missed activation dice gives your opponent a reaction? I think that has been a relatively successful addition to the SBH rules engine as it has since shown up in Fighting Fungi and Advanced SBH. As for different charachters fighting and shooting. Doesn't a character have to have a ranged shooting ability to do so? That still leaves shooty hero cops with high H2H abilities, but I'm fairly sure there are special rules to give your H2H specialists a bit of an edge.

Lastly, if you don't like the abstraction in these rules, you will probably also not like OGAM which is just SBH+a God/worship mechanic+Squad mechanic+Reaction system. I liked OGAM well enough, but I was using it as a classic fantasy combat system and I haven't gone back to it since I discovered Dragon Rampant which is a much better system for that use. There are a few exceptions such as his upcoming "Rogue Stars" but almost all of Andrea's rules are based on SBH and have 2-stat profiles + special rules. It's kind of the basis for his success but as you point out it's not a flavor that everyone enjoys.


I have not actually played a game, I simply read the rules. I find typically when i play, i have a blast and that leads to every game having a glowing review. That's boring to read! I have a feeling the things I pointed out would more be niggling, back of your brain annoyances that leave you feeling that something in the game was off, but not sure what exactly.

I agree the Initiative mechanic is pretty neat, and I also like the scale-able damage based on success. Those will be ideas that I mine for my own works of gaming. I am about half-way through OGAM, and it does seem like a lot of repeat with a few tweaks. I can't blame the designers, because if I hit success i am not re-inventing the wheel I am only going to tweak it and keep getting paid! Work smarter and not harder.

There are some special rules that make your Kung-fu master better at Kung-fu and your shooter better at shooting; but those are special rules. A Kung-fu master could easily use his amazing kung-fu and take out an extra, grab his sub-machine gun, and then use it to take out more bad guys with no real issues. The special rules just make them slightly better.

In addition, as I read the OGAM rules, I am reminded of all the times the Fistful of Kung-Fu say XX happens unless Y, Z, W, and S are in play then 1,2 ,3 happens instead. These get buried in various places inthe rules with no real pattern. If I was playing a game, it would make it really hard to go back and figure out what is supposed to be happening, and instead I would just make-it up as I go along. If I was going to make it up as a I go along, I might as well just play a game I made up myself too.

On the other hand, I love where it says that no action is "not allowed" if both players agree that it can happen. Now we are skating the line between Improv and game. The right group can handle this and have a blast, the wrong group this could end up with people shanked.



I will get off my soapbox now. I have a feeling that if I sat down and played a few games of this I would have fun.

if you want to do Terrorist vs. SWAT I would either use Force-on-Force or Black Ops. Unless I wanted it to be a more cinematic, less serious Heroic Bloodshed feel. Then I would go with this.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/03 14:04:29


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 Eilif wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:

In terms of chrome versus depth, it doesn't worry me so much. I see skirmish games as being the kind of thing you build only small armies for and have fun occasionally, not in-depth systems. They work best for prepared scenarios.


I have a bit of a different approach. I like big battles, but I think skirmish games with good campaign systems can be most engaging game systems. SBH is even simpler than this (though it has a few good supplements) but it has been a very rewarding system for our club for over 5 years. We've done at least 4 campaigns, each consisting of around 12 games per player. Based on the review above, I'm not sure if FoKF has the same replay-ability, but a simple well-designed game can be a very long term proposition.

...
...


To me, if I was going to do a long-running campaign with character development and so on I would be looking at rules like Laser Burn that have rules for advancement, or even an action oriented RPG such as Savage Worlds.

What I'm trying to say is that AFofKuFu isn't a bad game in itself, from my point of view, but it's a game that has been written for limited scenarios rather than longer-term campaigns. If you wanted to play out the plot of a film like Kung Fu Hustle, which is a series of maybe five major fights that could be set up as individual scenarios, then I reckon AFofKuFu would do nicely.

I also have OGAM but have done no more than glance at it yet.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
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Chicago

 Kilkrazy wrote:

To me, if I was going to do a long-running campaign with character development and so on I would be looking at rules like Laser Burn that have rules for advancement, or even an action oriented RPG such as Savage Worlds.

What I'm trying to say is that AFofKuFu isn't a bad game in itself, from my point of view, but it's a game that has been written for limited scenarios rather than longer-term campaigns. If you wanted to play out the plot of a film like Kung Fu Hustle, which is a series of maybe five major fights that could be set up as individual scenarios, then I reckon AFofKuFu would do nicely.


I see.

Laserburn...? Now that's some old school gaming. How are the Laserburn rules?

Interesting that you mention RPG's. Our club is going to try the SBH RPG variant "Tales of Blades and Heroes" for this summer's campaign. I think it will be quite different from our past SBH campaigns especially in that it will be cooperative.

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I have used the old TSR Marvel Heroes game for Supers, since it was technically a map based game. However, it gets a bit clunkier because well, RPGs are more detail oriented than you really want your mini games to be.

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That's the rub isn't it. It's hard to find something that will handle multipllayer, makes it interesting for each player to be only running one or two characters and isn't an RPG with more detail than you want or a board game with less.

In pursuit of this, we gave "Dungeon Delves" a shot last year but it felt a bit slow for us and combat resolution took way too long.

I have high hopes for Tales of Blades and Heroes. I've only played it 1P vs. DM, but it seemed like it will work well. Brief batrep and my initial observations here:
http://www.chicagoskirmishwargames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=121

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I picked up A Fistful of Kung Fu when it came out, along with the Martial Arts Heroes and The Demons armies. In traditional wargaming style I've only started painting them today, so I haven't given the rules a try yet. That said, I've played and enjoyed SBH a few times, so I expect this should suit me. And, of course, I'll never play a pick up game of this, so any problems can be house ruled away.
   
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Yeah, this game is not Pick-up game material. It is clearly intended for a gaming group of buddies.

I feel that is the case with most of the Osprey rules.

They also feel like they are good Demo games at conventions where the organizer is the GM.

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 Easy E wrote:
Yeah, this game is not Pick-up game material. It is clearly intended for a gaming group of buddies.

I feel that is the case with most of the Osprey rules.

They also feel like they are good Demo games at conventions where the organizer is the GM.


There may be exceptions but I think that's generally a fair assessment. Almost all of the Osprey games are quite flexible and have unit creation mechanics. Unit creation mechanics are almost always incompatible with random pick-up games because they're easy to hyper-listbuild and "break" the balance of the game.

That said, their simplicity is such that even a casual group could easily play them if folks were trusted to bring balanced forces and not WAAC lists.

One exception to this might be Dragon Rampant. If folks agreed to not take custom units, it could almost be a game like HOTT or SAGA that is tight enough for two strangers throw down thier armies and play quickly. Maybe Frostgrave too?

Of course it's not usually an issue because these games don't have enough of a following to have pick-up games. You'd proably have to setup a game via email or some forum to find a local game and that would give you the contact to compare your game expectations ahead of time.

Chicago Skirmish Wargames club. Join us for some friendly, casual gaming in the Windy City.
http://chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/


My Project Log, mostly revolving around custom "Toybashed" terrain.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/651712.page

Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad!
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