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 Smacks wrote:
That's why I like the aces and the post move actions. I don't think of it as making the game easy by correcting "mistakes", I think of it as giving you more options to mitigate randomness using skill. Which is why I think it's an important and enriching aspect of the game.

But a lot of the time it isn't skill. If I'm playing Soontir Fel at PS 9 and your highest-PS ship is PS 8 then most of those maneuvering actions are very straightforward and obvious. It's much less "wow, look at my amazing skill with boost and barrel roll" and more "I'm higher PS than you, I get to shoot at you and you don't get to shoot back". In terms of pure player skill it takes a lot more to win with low-PS ships that can't choose their final position after everyone else has moved.

In terms of pure player skill it takes a lot more to win with low-PS ships that can't choose their final position after everyone else has moved.

on an unrelated but sort-of-related anyway note: much respect to the finalists at the Yavin open - some unusual squads going: the eventual winner using a TIE swarm* and managing to eat aces and contracted scouts alike for lunch, whilst a squad consisting entirely of 4 HWK-260s** managed to go 6-0 on the first day....



* Howlrunner/Crack Shot, 3 x Black Squadron Pilot/Crack Shot, 3 x Academy Pilot. A nice, elegant mix of a 'numbers' swarm and a 'crackswarm' that still has the weight of numbers to push home a victory after the initial pass.

** Palob Godahli/Adaptability/Zuckuss/Twin Laser Turret, Torkil Mux/Twin Laser Turret, Spice Runner/Dengar/Twin Laser Turret, Spice Runner/4-LOM/Twin Laser Turret. Proved disconcertingly good at landing hits on supposedly 'untouchable' TIE stealth/autothruster/palpatine interceptors

 Peregrine wrote:

 Smacks wrote:
That's why I like the aces and the post move actions. I don't think of it as making the game easy by correcting "mistakes", I think of it as giving you more options to mitigate randomness using skill. Which is why I think it's an important and enriching aspect of the game.

But a lot of the time it isn't skill. If I'm playing Soontir Fel at PS 9 and your highest-PS ship is PS 8 then most of those maneuvering actions are very straightforward and obvious. It's much less "wow, look at my amazing skill with boost and barrel roll" and more "I'm higher PS than you, I get to shoot at you and you don't get to shoot back". In terms of pure player skill it takes a lot more to win with low-PS ships that can't choose their final position after everyone else has moved.

To paraphrase a local player: "I don't need higher pilot skill. I know where you are going to be."

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
To paraphrase a local player: "I don't need higher pilot skill. I know where you are going to be."

That's not hard to figure out, against that guy I'd probably always be in the same place...

Which is what peregrine is saying above.

If you had dialled in the '3' bank already planning on using the boost and barrel roll, fair enough, but if you're just going "I've got a higher PS pilot and I see what you've done" and you have to use both maneuver actions to correct a screw-up (and let's be fair, a range '1' head-to-head pass with a T-65 is a pretty big screw-up) then I'm not convinced that in any way represents skill.

If you had done the above with Jake Farrell against Wedge Antilles, that is genuinely outthinking the other player and more worthy of applause. Or swearing.

locarno24 wrote:
If you had done the above with Jake Farrell against Wedge Antilles, that is genuinely outthinking the other player and more worthy of applause. Or swearing.

Well I guess it depends what you're impressed by, I'm not convinced it really is outthinking. Funnily enough, I played a game with all A-wings, where I destroyed Kavil in a such a way, using Arvel Crynyd. I "guessed" where the Y-wing would "probably" end up, and I move Arvel in the way and focused, then Kavil moved and ended up overlapping me (which I wanted), so he lost his action and couldn't target me, then Arvel destroyed him with a Procket. Obviously, I was really happy with the outcome, and on some level I might say to myself "I knew you were gonna move there... I'm so good", but in another universe the Y-wing does a straight 4, and Arvel gets destroyed by the turret. What really happened was my opponent moved where I "hoped" he was going to move, which is as much luck as anything else. In chess they have a name for when you play hoping your opponent will miss your move, it's called "hope chess" and it's what bad players do.

In the same game I destroyed Cobra with Tycho, by arc dodging him twice while moving first, but both times were when he k-turned, which is a much safer bet. Had he been a slightly more manoeuvrable ship with a talon roll, then he would have had three possible positions, and it would have been more risky to play "hope-wing" and we're back to RPS . It's easy to confuse luck with skill when it works out for you, but it's possible that your opponent considered your move, considered all your other moves, and then just guessed wrong. Maybe he thought your move was too obvious and overestimated you. The same as someone thinking you wouldn't be obvious enough to pick Scissors three times in a row.

I have to ask... What does any of this have to do with Wave 9?

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
I have to ask... What does any of this have to do with Wave 9?

It started as a discussion on FFG's design decisions, which got a little sidetracked.

Don't get me wrong, my friends and I play a whole bunch but we have fun playing with everything and we proxy a lot. One of the last local tournaments had 16 or so people in it and 3 of the top five finishers were TLT Y spam. No thanks, I'll stick to my variety and surprises, not the stale old met vs counter-meta that makes me not want to waste my saturday, or buying 4 of every ship that comes out, just so I have THAT card.

I do really enjoy the game, but it definitely could be executed better than it is.

 Smacks wrote:

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
To paraphrase a local player: "I don't need higher pilot skill. I know where you are going to be."

That's not hard to figure out, against that guy I'd probably always be in the same place...

Spoiler:

...and his two wingmen just blocked you in-arc of his X-wing, and turned you into skeet.

I have to ask... What does any of this have to do with Wave 9?

Very little. My apologies.

As a sort-of-back-on-topic, there seems to be a sub-trend of 'activation phase attacks'. The ARC-170 has a 'Seismic Torpedo' which is fired as an action. It's not an attack, so can't force discard of stealth devices, and only does 1 attack die (but rolls it against the target and everyone within range 1) but - if it's like mines - doesn't let you roll defence dice.

Depending on cost and range, that's going to be a nice piece of anti-ace tech.

Quickdraw, if anything, is even nastier.Push The Limit or Rage and Electronic Baffle is self-damage, which isn't nice, but he can afford to do it once.

Fly up, take your action(s), burn a stress, lose a shield and shoot. This occurs during the activation phase (no prohibition on this - Quickdraw's ability is not tied to the combat phase) meaning you can get a shot off on Soontir Fel before he can get any tokens into play if you have the initiative. Or Darth Vader. Or PS10 Poe Dameron. Or you can shoot Whisper in the face before she can recloak.

As a trick to build a list around, it's not that great. But as a response to Soontir Fel, there are worse.

locarno24 wrote:
As a sort-of-back-on-topic, there seems to be a sub-trend of 'activation phase attacks'. The ARC-170 has a 'Seismic Torpedo' which is fired as an action. It's not an attack, so can't force discard of stealth devices, and only does 1 attack die (but rolls it against the target and everyone within range 1) but - if it's like mines - doesn't let you roll defence dice.

Where are you getting this from? There isn't enough of the card visible to confirm some of that.

Fly up, take your action(s), burn a stress, lose a shield and shoot. This occurs during the activation phase (no prohibition on this - Quickdraw's ability is not tied to the combat phase) meaning you can get a shot off on Soontir Fel before he can get any tokens into play if you have the initiative. Or Darth Vader. Or PS10 Poe Dameron. Or you can shoot Whisper in the face before she can recloak.

Or you can just take a Decimator with Vader and kill aces the easy way.

I wonder if they'll include the Inquisitor's lightsaber helicopter as a fighter in the next wave.

Back on topic: I don't think anyone here has mentioned it, but the ARC-170 allows you to combine Tactician and R3-A2 on the same ship. Depending on what the cheap ARC-170's end up costing, this could be a downright nasty combo. Both cards will work in the Auxillary Arc (giving it an edge over the Warthog). You lose the ability to double-stress at range 3, but now only take one stress on yourself, and have more green to clear stress. This, plus the Auxillary arc should make it easier to keep piling stress on your chosen victim, and you will occasionally get to take actions.

Bit late to the party here, but ho-hum

I'm kind of a bit mehh on this Wave, seems like a test for some new idea's, and the models aren't really that thrilling, /grump mode off

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Bit late to the party here, but ho-hum

I'm kind of a bit mehh on this Wave, seems like a test for some new idea's, and the models aren't really that thrilling, /grump mode off

OH I completely agree. This wave really doesn't make me want to run out and buy any of it when it comes out. I really only care to see what upgrades come with the ships.