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Hello boys and girls! This is my first time on the forums, so if I mess anything up, you'll have my thanks for telling me.

As the title suggests, I want to talk about the Dark Eldar. I've been a fan of the 40k lore for a while and consider myself fairly well-versed in it. I'm thinking about getting on the tabletop at last, as I have two buddies at school who play and would love to try my hand at painting. I love the Dark Eldar unit design and think their playstyle would be an enjoyable challenge for me. The catch is this: I know I'll only enjoy an army that I can craft around a character or characters I find compelling. I enjoy storytelling and would hope to spend time penning tales about the exploits of my heroes/anti-heroes/villains. You may see where this is going.

There isn't a single compelling Dark Eldar character in the fluff. Not one.

Can we even think of a character trait for Hesperax, for example? She's beautiful and really agile and great at killing people. You know, exactly like every other Wych. Not using combat drugs doesn't make her interesting. Vect being ambitious in a city full of the ambitious doesn't make me care about him. GW's planners seem to have become allergic to nuance when they put this faction together. Everyone hates everyone, all they want to do is kill, their streets are literally full of blood, etc. Not only is this unrealistic, it's simply not fun. Exploring the darker side of a race is fun. Exploring the psyche of a city eternally on the run from inescapable damnation is fun. Saying that everyone's evil and then punching the clock isn't.

Tl;dr: Are there compelling/interesting Dark Eldar characters out there? How can we approach this faction with nuance? Should I give up and play a different army? Thanks!

Well I haven't read it, but I've heard good things about the Dark Eldar omnibus from Black Library.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/path-of-dark-eldar-omnibus-paperback.html

All the main characters are Dark Eldar, and I would imagine they have some depth, since it's spoken pretty highly of. So that's potentially three novels worth of inspiration.

The price is pretty good too.

Edit:
I would actually disagree that every DE character is completely flat. They just haven't been developed by a good writer. There are hints of interesting things for some of them. Hesperax, for example, avoids combat drugs completely, which is bizarrely abnormal in the Dark City. Why? We're not given much to go off, but maybe she has more self respect than other Dark Eldar? She's also not that evil, by DE standards. She's just really good her job.

Vect is probably the most developed of the DE characters. He was born a lowly slave. He completely overthrew the entrenched class hierarchy of the Dark City and turned it into the extreme meritocracy we know today. So it can actually be argued that Vect highly values freedom. Even when he cracks down on other Kabals, there's a certain libertarian/anarchist logic to it. "You want to peddle with daemons? Ok, I'm going to cut you off from the rest of the city and let daemons completely overrun your area and eat you. Actions and consequences. Have fun with that. Anyone else think daemons are just another toy or exploitable resource?"

So I would say there are some interesting traits there.

Well, the Dark Eldar mostly suffer from that there is only very little that gets written about them, and when they do appear in a novel or such it is usually as one-dimensional evil antagonists. The lack of compelling characters really is because of a lack of Dark Eldar characters in general (seriously, there is only a handful of DE in the entire 40k fluff) not because the race or background doesn't have any potential for interesting characters. The Dark Eldar omnibus is a good start though.

There was a short story in one of the Black Library collections I read once. It was about an Archon who was attempting to romantically court some up and coming Lady. He competed against other suitors rather aggressivley, all of them trying to out do each other for her attentions. He viewed her as an object of lust and as a trophy. In the story he has a trueborn daughter with whom he takes on a particular mission to gain some artifact, which he hopes will impress his Lady.

During the mission his daughter is killed, and he finds himself feeling a genuine sense of loss and grief. In the end his Lady accepts him because his heartbreak and grief are better than any trinket.

This was written before the whole pound of flesh in a casket resurrection angle. But I thought it was an interesting story.

Daddy Mittens wrote:
Hello boys and girls! This is my first time on the forums, so if I mess anything up, you'll have my thanks for telling me.

As the title suggests, I want to talk about the Dark Eldar. I've been a fan of the 40k lore for a while and consider myself fairly well-versed in it. I'm thinking about getting on the tabletop at last, as I have two buddies at school who play and would love to try my hand at painting. I love the Dark Eldar unit design and think their playstyle would be an enjoyable challenge for me. The catch is this: I know I'll only enjoy an army that I can craft around a character or characters I find compelling. I enjoy storytelling and would hope to spend time penning tales about the exploits of my heroes/anti-heroes/villains. You may see where this is going.

There isn't a single compelling Dark Eldar character in the fluff. Not one.

Can we even think of a character trait for Hesperax, for example? She's beautiful and really agile and great at killing people. You know, exactly like every other Wych. Not using combat drugs doesn't make her interesting. Vect being ambitious in a city full of the ambitious doesn't make me care about him. GW's planners seem to have become allergic to nuance when they put this faction together. Everyone hates everyone, all they want to do is kill, their streets are literally full of blood, etc. Not only is this unrealistic, it's simply not fun. Exploring the darker side of a race is fun. Exploring the psyche of a city eternally on the run from inescapable damnation is fun. Saying that everyone's evil and then punching the clock isn't.

Tl;dr: Are there compelling/interesting Dark Eldar characters out there? How can we approach this faction with nuance? Should I give up and play a different army? Thanks!

I challenge the notion that there are no compelling Dark Eldar characters in the fluff. Path of the Dark Eldar had a fantastic character roster. In particular, Morr the Incubus was one of the most compelling characters I've ever read in a 40k novel, full-stop.

I'd really recommend you read that series if this is what you're looking for, as it goes into Dark Eldar society and also Vect's perspective, you find out more about him and in particular how he reacts to a crisis - to put it simply, if I had to pick a word to describe Asdrubael Vect, it wouldn't be 'ambition', it would be 'escalation'.

Dark eldar are one of the factions with the most compelling characters for me. They kinda have the whole Snow Crash feel to them instead of being mindless killing machines or devote followers of a glorified corpse.

Sure there isn't much written about them but that doesn't stop you from filling in the blanks with more interesting things then variations of BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD or I HATE YOU SO MUCH.

 fallinq wrote:
Well I haven't read it, but I've heard good things about the Dark Eldar omnibus from Black Library.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/path-of-dark-eldar-omnibus-paperback.html

All the main characters are Dark Eldar, and I would imagine they have some depth, since it's spoken pretty highly of. So that's potentially three novels worth of inspiration.

The price is pretty good too.

Edit:
I would actually disagree that every DE character is completely flat. They just haven't been developed by a good writer. There are hints of interesting things for some of them. Hesperax, for example, avoids combat drugs completely, which is bizarrely abnormal in the Dark City. Why? We're not given much to go off, but maybe she has more self respect than other Dark Eldar? She's also not that evil, by DE standards. She's just really good her job.

Vect is probably the most developed of the DE characters. He was born a lowly slave. He completely overthrew the entrenched class hierarchy of the Dark City and turned it into the extreme meritocracy we know today. So it can actually be argued that Vect highly values freedom. Even when he cracks down on other Kabals, there's a certain libertarian/anarchist logic to it. "You want to peddle with daemons? Ok, I'm going to cut you off from the rest of the city and let daemons completely overrun your area and eat you. Actions and consequences. Have fun with that. Anyone else think daemons are just another toy or exploitable resource?"

So I would say there are some interesting traits there.

Sounds like Discworlds Patrican

I find Vect very interesting, probably in part his portrayal in Path of the Archon. Without throwing away spoilers he is smart enough to live up to his name but he also cares for his city, because it is his. He wouldn't bat an eyelash at wiping out low commarragh to save the rest, or utterly obliterating rebel Archons if only to send a message to others to keep the peace. He is shown to be a complex character, he understands the chaos gods and yet puts his Dark Eldar above them and he is keen to share his view of things to a wandering Harlequin.

Malys is also in the book and her relation with Vect is explored slightly but by far the best scene is where the Harlequin and Malys fight atop beams over a fire waterfall, revenge of the sith style, all while comparing it too flirting.

In Path of the Incubus the stand our character is Mor, an incubus on the run for doing the right thing. He is deadly but tired, looking for an honorable death but also bound by loyalty to his city. I think he is rather unique based on how loyal he is and his interactions with the bubby Harlequin are by far the best part of the book.

I recommend the series, it is incredibly good. You may have to stick it out past the first book to unravel the characters as they begin very 1 dimensional like you'd feared.

So, do any of you have some good DE literature that you'd recommend? I'm toying with the idea of starting a Wych Cult/Kabalite force (since I was given the Shardstorm box as a gift), and I'm looking for some inspiration.

Another thing is that the Dark Eldar aren't into betraying everyone all the time for S&G anymore. Now they go for a more pragmatic evil approach, with little/no infighting between Kabal's on raids and with the Kabal's members sitcking together, at least until they are not in any immediate danger.
Compared with Chaos (even the Iron Warriors, the 'more realistic' CSM's are incredibly paranoid, most of the others are insane), the Orks with their unique protocol for anti-air defense, and the Necrons/Tyranids/Tau, the Dark Eldar fill a niche of being evil for evil's sake (and to keep their souls), but without the over-the-top portrayal usually associated with such a group.

As far as the characters go, the DE are limited by the fact they get so few portrayals in lore. Lots of Imperial characters are bland and one-dimensional, but there are enough of them to have some well-written people emerge. The best way to help the DE in this regard would be some more novels about them, or even a novel where they don't take the place of a generic villain.
My final observation on this subject (for now) is that most Dark Eldar tend to have a sick sense of humor (what a surprise) but also a generally bitter disposition (again, I'm a master of the obvious). I recall a particular story where vect had a slave brought to him, gave him a nice drink, just to tell him stories of the DE's history, because all the DE know it already. That bit made me wonder whether there was something else to Vect, and then he told the slave what he'd been drinking.

Daddy Mittens wrote:
Hello boys and girls! This is my first time on the forums, so if I mess anything up, you'll have my thanks for telling me.

Hi! Welcome aboard, and welcome to the Dark Eldar! I highly recommend checking out www.thedarkcity.net as well, as it is a DE specific site with a very close knit community.

The catch is this: I know I'll only enjoy an army that I can craft around a character or characters I find compelling. I enjoy storytelling and would hope to spend time penning tales about the exploits of my heroes/anti-heroes/villains.

I agree completely!

There isn't a single compelling Dark Eldar character in the fluff. Not one.

I could not disagree more.

Tl;dr: Are there compelling/interesting Dark Eldar characters out there? How can we approach this faction with nuance? Should I give up and play a different army? Thanks!

Oh, no! Don't give up! Let's break them down, shall we?

Asdrubael Vect
Not my personal favorite, but lots of people love him. Asdrubael Vect is Gromph Baenre in space: he's got plots inside his schemes inside his machinations. He has risen from absolutely nothing to being the undefeated heavyweight champion of the underworld. There's a lot to work with there: he undoubtedly has some serious personality flaws based in his origins. He can't ever have enough power, glory, or adulation, since at the end of the day he looks in the mirror and still sees the rag-clad slave boy lurking at the periphery of his memory. He's also got the uber-genius thing going for him, with a zillion plans and counterplans in reserve for 'just such an occasion.' (This can get a little deus-ex-machinaish if you aren't into that sort of thing, but some folks find that interesting, and I'm not about to throw rocks at other peoples' passions.)

Lady Malys
Next to Vect, Malys is the most canny of the Dark Eldar. She navigates the political treachery of the most chaotic place in the universe and always manages to stay on top. She is also the unwitting pawn of the Laughing God (having sold her heart and gods-know-what-else to him). If you like stories about the second banana who is always trying to walk the line between gaining enough power to move up to the big boy chair and supporting the a-hole sitting in said chair so they can retain their own position, Malys is your huckleberry.

Drazhar
The only fallen Phoenix Lord, Drazhar is an incredibly poignant symbol. The Eldar path dedication is what enables them to escape the clutches of Slaanesh, but the obsession that such a road can breed leads to ruin and, eventually, right back to She-Who-Thirsts. You can debate whether Drazhar has become the catspaw of Slaanesh or whether he has instead completely extinguished any sense of self (and any identification with pain or pleasure) to deny her any sustenance, but at the end of the day the extreme to which he has pushed the Eldar focus is his most compelling feature.

Baron Sathonyx
Everyone likes a rebel. Tony Hawk meets Rufio, the Baron is the ultimate rebel in the lightless city. His character is all about showing the Dark Eldar tendency to flirt with disaster, using self-destructive tools and tactics if they believe it will gain them an edge. From working with the same Archons who have orders to turn him in for a death sentence, to utilizing the psychic tools which could bring ruin to the entire city, he hammers the same point home over and over again.

Duke Sliscus
My personal favorite, the Duke is the outcast rebel. Too arrogant to play by anyone else's rules, he lives essentially as a Corsair, raiding planets with a mobile fleet that refuses to return to Commorragh. Of course, his bravado and continued success ensure he never lacks for support from wych cults and fringe elements in Commorrite society (which gives him plenty of cannon fodder to ensure that continued success...). Add to that a growing insanity and a tendency towards racism that would make the Emperor proud, Sliscus is the epitome of the dark genius of the quasi-immortal, and the madness that accompanies it.

Keradruakh (I may have screwed up that spelling.)
There is a Lovecraftian theme running through the DE, and the Big K is it's champion. He goes about his grim work in pursuit of an unnamed goal in service to some cosmic agenda that is unutterably terrible and maddeningly unknowable. He slips through the cyclopean ruins of the shadowy realm of the Mandrakes with ease, his mind forever altered by the twisted Chaos-tainted landscape. If you like cosmic horror and Mythos inspired stories, K is your man.

Urien Rakarth
One of the most ancient and venerable haemonculi, I think it's quite reasonable to infer that Rakarth is old enough to have witnessed the Fall and the time of the birth of Slaanesh. He is the ant to Vect's grasshopper: the lifeforms in the galaxy may be abundant now, but a time of scarcity is fast approaching, and when it arrives the man who has planned ahead will rein supreme. He is a Cenobite as Barker originally envisioned them: not demons, but extradimensional explorers seeking to comprehend and expand the limits of knowledge and sensation. For my money, a far more sinister idea presents itself: no haemonculus knows more of the nature of death (especially as it pertains to Eldar) than Rakarth. Some fringe Craftworlders believe that when the ranks of dead Eldar reach critical mass, a new deity (Ynnead, the god of death) will be born to destroy Slaanesh and restore what remains of the Eldar people. It doesn't seem unreasonable to think there might be an unspoken connection between Rakarth and that cult.

Lelith Hesperax
I think Lelith is one of the deepest characters in the DE canon, btw. Look at it this way: Lelith is an addict, born to be a junkie whose fix is pain, adrenaline, and fear. She knows this, is acutely aware of it. She eschews the drugs because she is slightly more farsighted than most of her kin: she knows that the extremes of sensation those drugs bring are extremes she can (and did) achieve naturally through training and experience, and that getting to the peak of her prowess the hard way has bought her more time than any other wych can boast of. Now she begins to face a more horrifying eventuality than a drug addled death.

As her centuries grind on, it takes more and more to arouse her. There are few challenges left to a woman of Hesperax's skill (which is truly well beyond the ability of mere mortals). She is a jaded junkie, incapable of deriving the simple pleasure she once did from a kill, feeling no fear whatsoever from situations that would make an Astartes recoil. The extreme situations she needs to feel anything are so few and far between that the grow scarcer with each passing year. The only thing she truly fears anymore is what sort of path she will have to walk (a haemonculus? A solitaire?) when all the challenges run out

The True Kin believe they feed pain and misery to She Who Thirsts to keep Slaanesh from devouring their own souls. Hesperax, however, knows the truth that the Dark Eldar deny: although they can extend their lives, each time they feed Slaanesh, they give away a piece of their own souls in the bargain anyway, eventually leaving themselves hollowed out, bitter shells that can barely remember what it's like to feel anything at all.


Conclusion
I hope one or more of these takes helps present a slightly deeper take on one of these characters for you! Once again, welcome aboard!

EDIT: Forgot one!

Archons Malwrack and Baeda
Featured in the short story 'Mistress Baeda's Gift' (written by Braden Campbell, featured in the anthology Fear the Alien), these two embody the completely alien nature of Dark Eldar relationships. I don't want to give away the story, but I think if you read it you'll see a surprising depth to their relationship and the nature of the True Kin's unusual form of psychic vampirism (and the way it plays out in their society).

 War Kitten wrote:
So, do any of you have some good DE literature that you'd recommend? I'm toying with the idea of starting a Wych Cult/Kabalite force (since I was given the Shardstorm box as a gift), and I'm looking for some inspiration.

The Path of the Dark Eldar books are quite good. Although I do think the first book is the worst.

 War Kitten wrote:
So, do any of you have some good DE literature that you'd recommend? I'm toying with the idea of starting a Wych Cult/Kabalite force (since I was given the Shardstorm box as a gift), and I'm looking for some inspiration.

The Masque of Vyle features two Archons as prominent characters. Might be worth a look.

Thanks guys, I'll certainly check those books out. I needed some inspiration for my custom Kabal/Cult, and what better way than to read some good DE fiction?

Some good fanfiction. This is by far one of the best fan fictions I've ever read and it's completed. I promise this will give you a better look into the heart of the Dark City better than the codex would.

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t1119-trueborn-completed?highlight=Trueborn

The Dark City runs a fiction competition every year. There are always some real gems there (and they're super short!) so you should check them out if you have some free time!

 Jimsolo wrote:
The Dark City runs a fiction competition every year. There are always some real gems there (and they're super short!) so you should check them out if you have some free time!

I'll be sure to check them out when I get a chance. Thanks!

Aren't the Dark Eldar inspired by Michael Moorcock's melibonean race from the Elric novels? You might get some inspiration/ideas there. In particular Chaosium's Elric! Rpg had a sourcebook on the race/island they lived on that could flesh out your DE ideas well.

Finally, if anybody has ever read Daemonworld, was the ruler of the world a DE? I don't think the novel ever says, but she struck me as such.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
Aren't the Dark Eldar inspired by Michael Moorcock's melibonean race from the Elric novels? You might get some inspiration/ideas there. In particular Chaosium's Elric! Rpg had a sourcebook on the race/island they lived on that could flesh out your DE ideas well.

Finally, if anybody has ever read Daemonworld, was the ruler of the world a DE? I don't think the novel ever says, but she struck me as such.

Wasn't she a Slaaneshi daemon?

 Robin5t wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
Aren't the Dark Eldar inspired by Michael Moorcock's melibonean race from the Elric novels? You might get some inspiration/ideas there. In particular Chaosium's Elric! Rpg had a sourcebook on the race/island they lived on that could flesh out your DE ideas well.

Finally, if anybody has ever read Daemonworld, was the ruler of the world a DE? I don't think the novel ever says, but she struck me as such.

Wasn't she a Slaaneshi daemon?

No, she was definitely a mortal. The reason I'm not sure she was a DE is because she had a band of Chaos Marines at her disposal. On second thought she was probably just a human who was horribly corrupted by the warp over many years.

Has it been confirmed that Drazhar is in fact the fallen Eldar Phoenix Lord? Wasn't there the whole bit that he was a Dark Eldar version of the Black Knight; he never took off his armor, no one heard him speak, some think there is nothing inside his suit, etc.?

 Grumblewartz wrote:
Has it been confirmed that Drazhar is in fact the fallen Eldar Phoenix Lord? Wasn't there the whole bit that he was a Dark Eldar version of the Black Knight; he never took off his armor, no one heard him speak, some think there is nothing inside his suit, etc.?

Arhra certainly was meant to be the founder of the Incubi and its the insetting rumour that he survives as Drazhar but i dont think its ever been confirmed.

 Grumblewartz wrote:
Has it been confirmed that Drazhar is in fact the fallen Eldar Phoenix Lord? Wasn't there the whole bit that he was a Dark Eldar version of the Black Knight; he never took off his armor, no one heard him speak, some think there is nothing inside his suit, etc.?

It is suspected that Drazhar is the fallen Phoenix Lord, but it hasn't been confirmed. Quite honestly I doubt it ever will be confirmed, Gee-dubs likes to leave things like that to the imagination so that the players can come to their own conclusions about it. (sort of like the Blood Ravens being Thousand Sons descendant)

It's ludicrously implied. Like, if-he-isn't-Arhra-then-OJ-didn't-do-it levels.

Drazhar is Arhra.

 Grumblewartz wrote:
Has it been confirmed that Drazhar is in fact the fallen Eldar Phoenix Lord? Wasn't there the whole bit that he was a Dark Eldar version of the Black Knight; he never took off his armor, no one heard him speak, some think there is nothing inside his suit, etc.?[

Note: Bolded text here describes the most well known attributes of a Phoenix Lord.

Daddy Mittens wrote:

Everyone hates everyone, all they want to do is kill, their streets are literally full of blood, etc. Not only is this unrealistic, it's simply not fun. Exploring the darker side of a race is fun. Exploring the psyche of a city eternally on the run from inescapable damnation is fun. Saying that everyone's evil and then punching the clock isn't.

You have to understand a few things about xenos first. Concepts of good and evil, culture, customs, and beliefs are all going to be different from the beliefs of humans. Dark Eldar are naturally evil, because they have to be (Slaanesh literally leeches off of their souls). Commorragh, from what I've gathered, is a crime-stricken, power-struggling, gang-infested, death city. If, you don't like down right depraived characters then play Lamenters or Salamanders.