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BL Cabal (385)
• Sorcerer - ML 2, VotLW, axe, spell familiar, bike (125)
• Sorcerer - ML 2, VotLW, axe, spell familiar, JP (120)
• Sorcerer - ML 2, VotLW, axe, spell familiar, MoS, steed (140)

KDK CAD (969)
HQ
Lord - jugger, PF, LC, sigil (185)

TROOPS
8 Cultists - autoguns (66)
8 Cultists (58)

FAST ATTACK
20 HoK (320)
Heldrake - baleflamer (170)
Heldrake - baleflamer (170)

This brings me to 1354, giving me 146 points to play with. The idea is that the cabal runs with the hounds and jugger lord, rolling on bio, telepathy, Slaanesh and sanctic daemonology for various buffs. What I'm currently worried about is A) not enough WC dice and B) not enough anti-tank. Originally I had considered taking Oblits in a CSM CAD to fill the AT role (move the drakes, cultists and lord over too) and running a gorepack instead of the KDK CAD but there were enough points to run both the Oblits and the biker tax. The list so far is working with models I have (hence the autogun cultists) but I'm willing to buy a unit or two so any suggestions are welcome.

Definitely spend 75 points to boost all the sorcs to ML3. Youre going to need the WC dice and it will help ensure you get all the powers you need to really make the star work. It may even be prudent to drop a drake for a 4th sorceror. Also consider Swapping the Lord for a Herald on Jugger with Axe of Khorne and Locus of Wrath. Not quitevas killy as the lord but can still do a number on most targets and rerolls to hit with that many attacks is gravy

You could also give lord the axe of korlath.

Bloodthirsters arrive gliding mode in the new faq which is awesome.

And if you manage to rack up 8 tithe points you can turn him into 2 thirsters if your opponent hasn't killed him yet (also in the faq).

astro_nomicon wrote:Definitely spend 75 points to boost all the sorcs to ML3. Youre going to need the WC dice and it will help ensure you get all the powers you need to really make the star work. It may even be prudent to drop a drake for a 4th sorceror. Also consider Swapping the Lord for a Herald on Jugger with Axe of Khorne and Locus of Wrath. Not quitevas killy as the lord but can still do a number on most targets and rerolls to hit with that many attacks is gravy

ML 3 is a good idea, would I be better off with 3 ML 3 sorcerers or 4 ML 2? It'd be the same number of powers if you include focus, but trades one WC dice for flexibility. Why take the Herald if The Lord is more killy?

chaosmarauder wrote:You could also give lord the axe of korlath.
Bloodthirsters arrive gliding mode in the new faq which is awesome.
And if you manage to rack up 8 tithe points you can turn him into 2 thirsters if your opponent hasn't killed him yet (also in the faq).

I like this idea but that turns him into a huuuge points sink. And I'd have to buy one or two(!!!) 'thirsters...

What do you guys think about dropping some of the hounds to free up points? I'm still worried about anti-tank and 20 HoK does seem a little unnecessary. I think I'd be able put the hounds into a gorepack with two units of bikes, move everything else over to a CSM CAD and take a couple of single Oblits to DS in the enemy dzone. I could drop a heldrake instead of hounds and then should be enough points to do that.

Thoughts?

Edits: typos and phrasing

 Brother Payne wrote:

astro_nomicon wrote:Definitely spend 75 points to boost all the sorcs to ML3. Youre going to need the WC dice and it will help ensure you get all the powers you need to really make the star work. It may even be prudent to drop a drake for a 4th sorceror. Also consider Swapping the Lord for a Herald on Jugger with Axe of Khorne and Locus of Wrath. Not quitevas killy as the lord but can still do a number on most targets and rerolls to hit with that many attacks is gravy

ML 3 is a good idea, would I be better off with 3 ML 3 sorcerers or 4 ML 2? It'd be the same number of powers if you include focus, but trades one WC dice for flexibility. Why take the Herald if The Lord is more killy?

Becauase the Herald hits just as hard against most targets and harder vs some (T5+ non EW characters thanks to ID on 6s) and he ups the damage output of the entire units thanks to the Locus (reroll hits on the charge). With that many hounds and in conjunction with hammerhand rerolling hits really ups the damage output.

chaosmarauder wrote:You could also give lord the axe of korlath.
Bloodthirsters arrive gliding mode in the new faq which is awesome.
And if you manage to rack up 8 tithe points you can turn him into 2 thirsters if your opponent hasn't killed him yet (also in the faq).

I like this idea but that turns him into a huuuge points sink. And I'd have to buy one or two(!!!) 'thirsters...

What do you guys think about dropping some of the hounds to free up points? I'm still worried about anti-tank and 20 HoK does seem a little unnecessary. I think I'd be able put the hounds into a gorepack with two units of bikes, move everything else over to a CSM CAD and take a couple of single Oblits to DS in the enemy dzone. I could drop a heldrake instead of hounds and then should be enough points to do that.

Thoughts?

Edits: typos and phrasing

I think you could safely drop down to 15 hounds and invest the points elsewhere. Two drakes seems like overkill in a houndstar list since just about anything the drakes tackle effectively the houndstar can shred with ease amd will have a hard time avoiding you anyway. I can see the value in one hunting down MSU units trying to from you but two is excessive especially with no reserve modifiers. Im not entirely sure what would help with taking down armor as both CSM and Daemons lack cost efficient solutions to that problem. Id suggest just playing around it and killing everything else.

OKay so revised list. Dropped a drake and 5 hounds, added a ML to each of the sorcs and moved everything over to a CSM CAD allowing me to add 2 oblits for AT. Also added a couple of bike squads to make up the gorepack giving me some more AT again. Thoughts?

(1499)

BL Cabal (475)
• Sorcerer - ML 3, VotLW, axe, spell familiar, bike (155)
• Sorcerer - ML 3, VotLW, axe, spell familiar, JP (150)
• Sorcerer - ML 3, VotLW, axe, spell familiar, MoS, steed (170)

CSM CAD (607)
HQ
Lord - MoK, jugger, PF, LC, sigil (175)

TROOPS
10 Cultists - autoguns (60)
10 Cultists (50)

FAST ATTACK
Heldrake - baleflamer (170)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Oblit - MoN (76)
Oblit - MoN (76)

KDK Gorepack (417)
- 15 HoK (240)
- 3 Bikes - 2 meltas (96)
- 3 Bikes - melta bombs (81)

I would split up the Hounds into 3 units of 5. It will give you far more flexibility.

 anticitizen013 wrote:
I would split up the Hounds into 3 units of 5. It will give you far more flexibility.

Noooooo the whole point is force multiplication through stacking buffs.

Ahh I see. However, I would make it a squad of 10 and a squad of 5; that way you can send off the 5 of them to harass/threaten targets of opportunity such as Devastators and such.

I'm a bit dusty on the rules but:
1) Can Independent Character's with one mark of chaos join a squad with a different one? I thought they could not.
2) Can CSM join daemon squads, units that have daemonic instability? I thought they could not.

Makes me wonder how the MoS Sorcerer could join the hounds of Khorne unit

 changerofways wrote:
I'm a bit dusty on the rules but:
1) Can Independent Character's with one mark of chaos join a squad with a different one? I thought they could not.
2) Can CSM join daemon squads, units that have daemonic instability? I thought they could not.

Makes me wonder how the MoS Sorcerer could join the hounds of Khorne unit

1. You're correct if memory serves correct, the MoS sorc wouldn't be able to join the hounds
2. KDK hounds don't have demonic instability like the regular daemon codex hounds do, they are fearless instead. Models with DI can not join or be joined by one's without

Nicanthrope wrote:

 changerofways wrote:
I'm a bit dusty on the rules but:
1) Can Independent Character's with one mark of chaos join a squad with a different one? I thought they could not.
2) Can CSM join daemon squads, units that have daemonic instability? I thought they could not.

Makes me wonder how the MoS Sorcerer could join the hounds of Khorne unit

1. You're correct if memory serves correct, the MoS sorc wouldn't be able to join the hounds
2. KDK hounds don't have demonic instability like the regular daemon codex hounds do, they are fearless instead. Models with DI can not join or be joined by one's without

The hounds have Daemon of Khorne rather than Mark of Khorne so this is a non-issue.

This Khorne codex is very strange as it has some of the same units with different rules. Bloodthirsters, for instance, cannot take rewards. This hounds difference is very confusing as well. Oh well, thanks for the clarification guys.

In this case, I guess you have to toss the MoS and give him a JP or bike like the other two.

 changerofways wrote:
This Khorne codex is very strange as it has some of the same units with different rules. Bloodthirsters, for instance, cannot take rewards. This hounds difference is very confusing as well. Oh well, thanks for the clarification guys.

In this case, I guess you have to toss the MoS and give him a JP or bike like the other two.

I'm not sure you understood. There is no reason the sorcerer with Mark of Slaanesh cannot join the hounds. He wouldn't be able to join them if they had a Mark of Khorne but they don't; they have Daemon of Khorne. The rule in the CSM codex only prohibits ICs with marks from joining units with other marks (and says nothing about other daemon allegiances).

Unfluffy as hell but no need to drop the MoS

 Brother Payne wrote:

 changerofways wrote:
This Khorne codex is very strange as it has some of the same units with different rules. Bloodthirsters, for instance, cannot take rewards. This hounds difference is very confusing as well. Oh well, thanks for the clarification guys.

In this case, I guess you have to toss the MoS and give him a JP or bike like the other two.

I'm not sure you understood. There is no reason the sorcerer with Mark of Slaanesh cannot join the hounds. He wouldn't be able to join them if they had a Mark of Khorne but they don't; they have Daemon of Khorne. The rule in the CSM codex only prohibits ICs with marks from joining units with other marks (and says nothing about other daemon allegiances).

Unfluffy as hell but no need to drop the MoS

Oh, you are right, I did not understand.
That's so dumb.

Now that you have all hand-held me through the rules, I feel if the right unit gets in close combat with your Cabal-Jugg Lord-HoK deathstar, the rest of your army will get annihilated and your deathstar will become surrounded by the time combat ends. This is a problem with all deathstars.
I don't understand why so many people put the cabal with HoK. Don't you want them shooting witchfires and using their special spell?

 changerofways wrote:

Spoiler:

 Brother Payne wrote:

 changerofways wrote:
This Khorne codex is very strange as it has some of the same units with different rules. Bloodthirsters, for instance, cannot take rewards. This hounds difference is very confusing as well. Oh well, thanks for the clarification guys.

In this case, I guess you have to toss the MoS and give him a JP or bike like the other two.

I'm not sure you understood. There is no reason the sorcerer with Mark of Slaanesh cannot join the hounds. He wouldn't be able to join them if they had a Mark of Khorne but they don't; they have Daemon of Khorne. The rule in the CSM codex only prohibits ICs with marks from joining units with other marks (and says nothing about other daemon allegiances).

Unfluffy as hell but no need to drop the MoS

Oh, you are right, I did not understand.
That's so dumb.

Now that you have all hand-held me through the rules, I feel if the right unit gets in close combat with your Cabal-Jugg Lord-HoK deathstar, the rest of your army will get annihilated and your deathstar will become surrounded by the time combat ends. This is a problem with all deathstars.
I don't understand why so many people put the cabal with HoK. Don't you want them shooting witchfires and using their special spell?

The reason you want them in a HoK unit is because the hounds are fast, durable and fearless. The Cabal is not there to spit out psychic shrieks and other such witchfires, but instead to buff the hounds to inordinate levels with invis, sanctuary, hammerhand, endurance, etc. And yes you will certainly be making the most of the Cabal's unique spell. In a list that isn't particularly shooty, taking over a Stormsurge or Knight for a round of shooting (or every round) is invaluable.

Wow after reading the entry on marks in the csm codex, it doesn't say two IC with different marks can't join the same unmarked unit, which DoK is technically not Marked

Nicanthrope wrote:
Wow after reading the entry on marks in the csm codex, it doesn't say two IC with different marks can't join the same unmarked unit, which DoK is technically not Marked

Correct

 Brother Payne wrote:

Nicanthrope wrote:
Wow after reading the entry on marks in the csm codex, it doesn't say two IC with different marks can't join the same unmarked unit, which DoK is technically not Marked

Correct

Nah. Because they have to join each other whilst joinig the hounds and that isn't allowed.
Imagine if all the hounds got killed, and all that was left was the characters.. what would the rules situation be then?

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 Brother Payne wrote:

Nicanthrope wrote:
Wow after reading the entry on marks in the csm codex, it doesn't say two IC with different marks can't join the same unmarked unit, which DoK is technically not Marked

Correct

Nah. Because they have to join each other whilst joinig the hounds and that isn't allowed.
Imagine if all the hounds got killed, and all that was left was the characters.. what would the rules situation be then?

Same as if any two ICs join a unit and the unit (aside from them) was wiped out. They stay as a unit.
What d'you mean they have to join each other... ?