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Hello all! I am looking to make a competitive list for Dark Eldar. In essence, I m looking for the army to function as a primarily Close Combat army. I already have Eldar and so I was looking for something with a slightly different emphasis on the style of play (being close combat) and if I wanted to.

Please critique my list:

Lelith Hesperax with Close combat weapon and Impaler - 165pts

9x Wych, Hekatrix with Agoniser inside of a raider with Dark Lance, Enhanced Aethersails, Nightshield - 215 pts
9x Wych, Hekatrix with Agoniser inside of a raider with Dark Lance, Enhanced Aethersails, Nightshield - 215 pts

4x Incubi with Klaivex inside of Venom with Splinter Cannon - 175pts
4x Incubi with Klaivex inside of Venom with Splinter Cannon - 175pts
4x Incubi with Klaivex inside of Venom with Splinter Cannon - 175pts

5x Scourges, 4 with Haywire Blaster - 120pts
5x Scourges, 4 with Haywire Blaster - 120pts

- 1360 pts

I am unsure what else to get. I do understand that many people want to tell me to get Warriors and put them in Raidors but I would like to keep it as close combat based as possible (except for the Scourges because I do need some form of anti-vehicle.

Also, because i am using battlescribe, I believe that Venoms may take up to 2 Splinter Cannons?
With the Scourges, can all 5 take Haywire Blasters or is it just 4 (what do people usually do to make Scourges most effective?)

Thank you for your time!

DE are not a close combat army. They also struggle to be competitive at their best, let alone in a role they're not good at.

With that out of the way, you've not got any grotesques in your list. Considered them at all?

Sadly your army us too CC oriented. I fear you will be disappointed.

I would recommend just get a succubus with the armor and the AP2 blade + 4 incubi in a venom... Kalabites are easier than witches either 5 kalabite w blaster andsybarite with a haywire grenade in a venom of 10 warriors with the same specials in a raider with dark lance and splinter racks.... If you really like close assault max out on reaver jetbikes with cluster caltrops with blasters and a leader with haywire grenades.

Scourges are fine but compete with jetbikes. If you want long ranged antitank it is reavers or razorwings or bombers..

Crispy78 wrote:
DE are not a close combat army. They also struggle to be competitive at their best, let alone in a role they're not good at.

With that out of the way, you've not got any grotesques in your list. Considered them at all?

Are you sure that they are not good at CC? On paper and from reviews of certain units - it seems they are extremely potent in CC....

I have not considered the grotesques no.

I second Reavers. Great close combat unit. Large unit size, with s champion with an agonizer and maxed cluster caltrops. If only Archons could get jet bikes... Beastmasters with beast packs can also be good

No talos formation? I would think that would be an auto include for dark eldar

 Farseer of Angau wrote:

Crispy78 wrote:
DE are not a close combat army. They also struggle to be competitive at their best, let alone in a role they're not good at.

With that out of the way, you've not got any grotesques in your list. Considered them at all?

Are you sure that they are not good at CC? On paper and from reviews of certain units - it seems they are extremely potent in CC....

I have not considered the grotesques no.

Str 3, T 3 and generally paper-thin armour lets them down. They get better towards the end of the game with power from pain, but you've got to keep them alive till then. I'd be interested to read what you've found that suggests otherwise, maybe there's something I'm missing.

As far as I've seen / heard / played, DE generally seem to play best as a highly mobile MSU mechanised infantry army.

On paper they look good. In practice they are beyond terrible.

DE are currently one of the worst books out there, possibly the worst book GW has ever produced.

DE should be a close combat army, but nothing about their close combat elements are good except for that Talos formation. They simply die too easily and don't hit hard enough.

If you want to play a close combat DE army (which is totally cool, I love that style too) then don't expect to win any games or be competitive beyond fighting an equally terrible army.

Beyond that, literally the only playable army for DE is Warrior spam (and that got nerfed recently) or Coven list from the supplement book they got.

As for your army, I'd say pick up at least 2 units of Reavers, give them some anti-tank and grab the Talos Formation.

If you can, drop anything and everything that resembles a Wyche. They are in contest for being one of the worst units in the game. Completely and utterly useless.

The most recent DE codex made me so depressed that I stopped playing the army and am now looking to sell. It's just that bad.

Crispy78 wrote:

 Farseer of Angau wrote:

Crispy78 wrote:
DE are not a close combat army. They also struggle to be competitive at their best, let alone in a role they're not good at.

With that out of the way, you've not got any grotesques in your list. Considered them at all?

Are you sure that they are not good at CC? On paper and from reviews of certain units - it seems they are extremely potent in CC....

I have not considered the grotesques no.

Str 3, T 3 and generally paper-thin armour lets them down. They get better towards the end of the game with power from pain, but you've got to keep them alive till then. I'd be interested to read what you've found that suggests otherwise, maybe there's something I'm missing.

As far as I've seen / heard / played, DE generally seem to play best as a highly mobile MSU mechanised infantry army.

I was thinking of their ability to jump of their open topped transport and go straight into an assault where they get a 4++ in CC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
On paper they look good. In practice they are beyond terrible.

DE are currently one of the worst books out there, possibly the worst book GW has ever produced.

DE should be a close combat army, but nothing about their close combat elements are good except for that Talos formation. They simply die too easily and don't hit hard enough.

If you want to play a close combat DE army (which is totally cool, I love that style too) then don't expect to win any games or be competitive beyond fighting an equally terrible army.

Beyond that, literally the only playable army for DE is Warrior spam (and that got nerfed recently) or Coven list from the supplement book they got.

As for your army, I'd say pick up at least 2 units of Reavers, give them some anti-tank and grab the Talos Formation.

If you can, drop anything and everything that resembles a Wyche. They are in contest for being one of the worst units in the game. Completely and utterly useless.

The most recent DE codex made me so depressed that I stopped playing the army and am now looking to sell. It's just that bad.

Thanks for all the feedback, it looks like I am less and less likely to pick them up now. I am still undecided. I really like the look of the Warriors and Incubi.

What about having the same HQ, 2-3 Venoms with Incubi, perhaps 4 units of Warriors in Venoms and some Scourges for anti-Vehicle?

Do a little mathhammer 10 space marines with bolters vs 10 wyches... For simplicy sake say the marine ignored your wyches, you dismount and fire 10 splinter pistols hit an above average 8 times and wound 4... Getting their armor saves, you kill 1. Then your big charge they overwatch and hit you 3 times out of 18 shots killing 2. Now your witchesattack 24 times hitting 12 wounding 4 and kiilling 1 or 2 on a good day. So assuming he doesn;t have a veteran sergent or counterattack he hits you 4 times and then will kill a little over 1 of your witches... This is your best turn after this you go down to 2 attacksper witch.

For tarpitting you are OK but as far as winning CC only HQ and incubi wiil/

Here is another take on the list, can you guys help me to make this work somehow?


CAD

Lelith – 150pts

3x Incubi with Klaivex in Venom with Splinter Cannon – 155pts
3x Incubi with Klaivex in Venom with Splinter Cannon – 155pts
3x Incubi with Klaivex in Venom with Splinter Cannon – 155pts

5x Kabalite Warriors in Venom with Splinter Cannon – 105pts
5x Kabalite Warriors in Venom with Splinter Cannon – 105pts

5x Scourges, 4x Haywire Blasters and Solarite with Blast Pistol – 145pts
5x Scourges, 4x Haywire Blasters and Solarite with Blast Pistol – 145pts


CAD 2
(needs a HQ of some kind)

5x Kabalite Warriors in Venom with Splinter Cannon – 105pts
5x Kabalite Warriors in Venom with Splinter Cannon – 105pts

3x Reavers and one Cluster caltrop – 63pts
3x Reavers and one Cluster caltrop – 63pts
3x Reavers and one Cluster caltrop – 63pts

total atm: 1484/1500

If you want a close combat eldar army, get some harlequins. While you're not likely to be super competitive, they can be fast and hit hard. However, you will need to ally in some of your craftworld eldar for support as the clowns have next to no anti tank and nothing with a range greater than 24".

 snykyninja wrote:
If you want a close combat eldar army, get some harlequins. While you're not likely to be super competitive, they can be fast and hit hard. However, you will need to ally in some of your craftworld eldar for support as the clowns have next to no anti tank and nothing with a range greater than 24".

yes it is true that harlequins are good at CC, I do not like the models or fluff behind them really. I much prefer the Dark Eldar but thank you for the suggestion!

Why don't you do a Harlequin army with Dark Eldar models?

I like your modified list the only thing I would suggest find a way to add blasters to each warrior and reaver group. Look at the FOC in the book that allows you 6 fast attack choices. I think your list is okay for that with no need for another HQ.

I think you are too heavy on incubi I think you would better with one unit dedicated to CC but try it out. I cant argue Incubi are awesome models.








i

Another update to the list:


Realspace Raiders detatchment:

Lelith Hesperax – 150pts

3x Incubi with Klaivex in Venom with 2 Splinter Cannon – 165pts

5x Kabalite Warriors, one Blaster in in Venom with 2 Splinter Cannon – 120pts
5x Kabalite Warriors, one Blaster in in Venom with 2 Splinter Cannon – 120pts
5x Kabalite Warriors, one Blaster in in Venom with 2 Splinter Cannon – 120pts
5x Kabalite Warriors, one Blaster in in Venom with 2 Splinter Cannon – 120pts
5x Kabalite Warriors, one Blaster in in Venom with 2 Splinter Cannon – 120pts

3x Reavers, one has Cluster caltrops and a Blaster – 73pts
3x Reavers, one has Cluster caltrops and a Blaster – 73pts
3x Reavers, one has Cluster caltrops and a Blaster – 73pts
3x Reavers, one has Cluster caltrops and a Blaster – 73pts
5x Scourges, four Haywire blasters and one Blast pistol – 145pts
5x Scourges, four Haywire blasters and one Blast pistol – 145pts

- 1497 pts

I don't know why everyone is being depressing. "worst book GW ever made" Isn't that a little exaggeration?

OP, your original list is fine, just replace 1/2 incubi with warriors in raiders/venoms or reavers (as many have suggested). To give it at least some ranged ability

2 wych units is cheap and effective imo. (don't buy wych weapons) Mainly because you're either going to kill the unit you're charging, or tarpit them. They also vastly benefit from power from pain and combat drugs. Wait until you've got furious charge and FNP, and you'll do much better than a turn 2 charge, reserve yourself.

They are also more bodies, no matter what their save or ws or bs they can always camp objectives if the need arises.

Also, I second the notion of a Succubus with archite glaive and armour of misery instead of Lelith. She's only str 3, which is pretty crap for the challenge masters other armies have, where as the succubus is str 4, and still ap 2.

Hope you still want do do your Dark Eldar Angau, it's a really sweet looking and rewarding army.

I don't know why everyone is being depressing. "worst book GW ever made" Isn't that a little exaggeration?

Normally, I would be exaggerating. But in this instance I am 100% not.

They not only sucked out all the competitiveness from the book, they ripped the heart out of it to the point where you can't even make a fluffy hero choice.

Nothing works as it should for the exception of maybe Warriors and Scourges.

Everything is horrendously overpriced or near useless on the table top.

When the only competitive HQ choice is a single 10 Lhamian so you don't have to purchase their ridiculously underpowered HQ section, then there is a problem. Not to mention removing half of the named special characters all together.

Look at their god awful Artifacts list. 30 points for a power weapon that has a chance of killing you? 30 points? This is madness, for a strength 3 AP 3 weapon.

There is literally no point to taking an Archon, he has absolutely zero access to an AP 2 combat weapon. No more Venom Blades either. No more Ghostplate...because a 4+ armour save would be way too OP.

I could go on, but clearly the person who wrote this codex has absolutely no clue.

 Farseer of Angau wrote:
Another update to the list:


Realspace Raiders detatchment:

Lelith Hesperax – 150pts

3x Incubi with Klaivex in Venom with 2 Splinter Cannon – 165pts

5x Kabalite Warriors, one Blaster in in Venom with 2 Splinter Cannon – 120pts
5x Kabalite Warriors, one Blaster in in Venom with 2 Splinter Cannon – 120pts
5x Kabalite Warriors, one Blaster in in Venom with 2 Splinter Cannon – 120pts
5x Kabalite Warriors, one Blaster in in Venom with 2 Splinter Cannon – 120pts
5x Kabalite Warriors, one Blaster in in Venom with 2 Splinter Cannon – 120pts

3x Reavers, one has Cluster caltrops and a Blaster – 73pts
3x Reavers, one has Cluster caltrops and a Blaster – 73pts
3x Reavers, one has Cluster caltrops and a Blaster – 73pts
3x Reavers, one has Cluster caltrops and a Blaster – 73pts
5x Scourges, four Haywire blasters and one Blast pistol – 145pts
5x Scourges, four Haywire blasters and one Blast pistol – 145pts

- 1497 pts

I like your list. I know I would enjoy playng it. My one suggestion would pay attention to
Lilith and analyze if she is worth the points. If not go with a generic HQ

Yeah, I have replaced Lilith with the succubus and Glaive.

i'm not an dark eldar player... but i faced em many times...
beside ditching lilith for an generic succubus, i would suggest:
- put the inccubi in a raider with nightshields (more survivability and transportees wont mind the jinking)
- drop all blasters (maybe leave the kabalite ones)
- with the now freed up points get some dedicated antitank stuff and/or buff up the inccubi squad

Don't mix your squads. Have each unit dedicated to one task and specialise for that task. Saying that, drop the blasters from the kabalites. It may seem like a good idea to have some anti tank in those squads, but leave the anti tank to dedicated anti tank units. If you fire that blaster at a vehicle, you're wasting poisoned shots.

I agree that dedicated units are better at their job but they are also worthless against the other. Your opponent knows that too.
In his current configuration he has 11 threats to tanks if he does as you suggest he will add maybe one ravager but he will reduce his threat to me to 3 units. So if I come at him with razorbacked up marines with a dreadnought of flyer or two it turns it into hunt down the ravager and his scourges meanwhile I can ignore the other 10 units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
With DE my opinion is it is all about the transport. Venoms are pure anti infanty raiders with dark lances are antitank. So then you have your troops to cover what your vehicle does not. So full AT venoms are kabalite warriors with blaster and a sybarite with haywire grenades. With your raider you add the splinter racks to enhance the squad of kablites but then you think long and hard about any upgrades to their weapons.

DAaddict wrote:
I agree that dedicated units are better at their job but they are also worthless against the other. Your opponent knows that too.

thats why i said maybe keep the kabilite's blasters. they are relitivly cheap and can pling a hullpoint off a already damaged vehicle to wreck it. you're not sacrificing that much firepower either because there are only 4 more rifles in each group...
but you'll need some form of dedicated AT. the scourges are exactly this, but i would put in another unit (ravager or blasterborn) just to add more AT firepower.

on the other hand, the scourge's blasters are simply to expensive for an already good enough unit and the bikes want to turboboost and attack non armoured targets so their blasters are a waste of points

Unless we are talking landraiders. Vehicles dont appreciate cluster caltrops so it is perfectly viable to have one blaster and pay the points for the sergeant with a haywire grenade.

that would be 15 points per blaster
so you just spent 60 points for shooty AT on units with a 3+ jinking save? hmmm

and what haywire grenades? on the kabalites? thats another 15points per grenade... so we are talking about 75 points (grenades) + 60 points (jinking reaver blasters)?

idk... but i can think of better ways to spend 135 points...


this would be my suggestion:

Its a matter of style and taste. I like every squad capable of being a threat but I can;t argue with multiple reavers or better yet multiple razorwings. To do that he would have to lose the scourges though, Play it a few times and he will see what he likes.

I like every squad capable of being a threat

yes, i like that too. but its about effectiveness.
a 15 point haywire grenade, a 15 point blaster on a unit that will either jink or turbobost six out of six turns or a even a blaster costing 25 points is not going to be effective.

and in the case of the scourges, they're gonna be a threat anyway. even without the blaster... (same goes for the reavers) it just means, you will have to deepstrike or move nearer to the enemy to get also in range of the blaster.
like i said its a matter of point effectiveness, think about what you can get for the points instead. in the case of my proposed list those points went into a dedicated AT unit (3 lances) and a 3+ jinking transport with an extra hullpoint and one more incubus inside.

i mean you can play whatever you like. fluffy or stylized lists are great and can be fun but if you are posting on a forum and seeking help... well, input and opinions are what u're gonna get

He has got 11 threats to AT that all have a small foot print yes he wull be jinking but not all 11 every turn, That is all I am saying. I like your list too it is a different style but I dont like ravagers and venoms... I would switch out to raiders with 10 kabalites and lose at least 1 scourge unit so I could maintain maximum distance but as I said it is about style. I like the MSU kablites disembarking blaster, throw a grenade and assault with a grenade better than a single pot shot raider or venoms with splinter kabalites that present no threat to a metal box list

yeah but the kabalite can stay alive inside the venom, cause a eldar on the ground is a dead eldar even if he is dark

venoms vs raiders... venoms got 12 poison shots each... and they dont neccesarily need to jink cause of their natural 5++
raiders got pretty useless with the new FAQ except for transporting CC guys

and about the 11 threats to AV... they are all threats even without the blasters... the scources have haywireblasters and the reavers their caltrops

btw maybe you misunderstood me, but i would keep the kabalite blasters