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Hey guys. So, I haven't played 40k in a decent while, not for any reason, so much as we ended up spending our hobby time playing many other games. That said, my wife has been talking about getting back into 40k, and she would like to take a stab at playing something highly competitive. Years of being an Orc and Sisters player mean she's had her "for fun" armies, but now wants to try actually winning some local tournaments.

She's decided that she wants to either go Space Marines, or Dark Eldar/Eldar, but wanted me to ask here, first, if both could be played at a high level? Obviously SM can, and she's entertaining the thought of the whole Gladius Strike Force, free transports, formation/detachment, but I have little idea of how competitive Dark Eldar are.

So a few specific questions, and then any thoughts at all would be appreciated.

1. Can the SM Strike-Force of Doom be built using Scouts instead of Tacticals? Is that a viable way to save points?

2. Can pure Dark Eldar, or Dark Eldar with minimal Eldar allies be viable at a more serious, competitive level? If so, what formations, units, etc... are worth looking into.

3. Including ITC allowed Forge-World... what are both armies better units, or possible purchases I should expect to make. IE, if Dark Eldar hypothetically want Incubi, how many units would we expect to need at 1750pts or so?

Any other related thoughts are much appreciated. Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just an addition which occurred to us...

Do Dark Eldar lose some of their value since they can no longer lend their transports to regular Eldar? As I said, we've been away from 40k for a bit, but I just heard about some of the changes. (My poor poor Skitarii taxis.... :-( )

I can help a little with the Dark Eldar. In short, no. They are not terribly competitive right now.

Is she looking atthe national tournaments or local ones? Locally, the meta generally isn't as cutthroat so a good general will be able to do some great things. Things like LVO and Adepticon are going to be pretty much impossible to win with pure Dark Eldar, or even with a few Eldar allies there.

Unit wise, Dark Eldar is extremely fragile, and because of this they are very unforgiving of mistakes. It is also for this reason that Coven armies are the most competitive right now. The Dark Eldar Haemi supplement has a few decent formations for grotesques and Talos that make them pretty good.

I personally like the Kabals, so my lists are a little different. Focusing more on min/maxing blasters 5 man Warrior squads with Vemons, trying to overload the enemy with poison shots. I also like Reaver jetbikes, which benefit from skilled rider 3+ jinks to mitigate their poor armor.

The only problem is, no matter how optimized you manage to make your Dark Eldar list, it will never be as competitive as Necrons, Space Marines, or Eldar. So if she wants to seriously win, Space Marines is much better to do so with right now. That said Dark Eldar will be more satisfying to win with.

Money wise/ things to buy, Covens are decently cheap, with loads of potential for conversions for grots and Talos. Kabals aren't terrible either, though the specialty units like Reavers are were most of the investment comes from. I'd say 6-9 venoms, 30 or so Warriors, 2-3 Razorwing jetfighters/ void raven bombers, and 12-18 Reavers is a decent representation of what I run to give some perspective.

Edit: also forgot about the Eldar part. So the problem with Eldar is it seems a bit like a rabbit hole. They are better in pretty much every way than Dark Eldar, so what starts out innocently enough as just wanting a unit of two turns into an entire CAD. One unit snowballs into a lot because you realize that whatever units you bring for your Dark Eldar force, Eldar can do for better.

Units to use though are obviously scatbikes, farseers, and wraithknights. You can also use an archon with webway portal and wraith guard for a "deep strike wherever you want and wreck something with D shots" unit.

Space marine and eldar are top.

Dark eldar are not.

Only play dark eldar if you love how they look, and don't care about high level competitiveness

Thanks guys.

The later is her eternal dilemma. She LOVES the aesthetic, and DEldar were the first army that made her want to try the hobby in general... but in the years since she's had a lot of fun with Sisters and Orcs, but has expressed frustration at always have "low tier" armies.

We have no pretense about going to LVO level events and winning, but we do have local ITC counted tournaments at several venues, and it would be nice for her to do well at those. So not highest-level competition, but players likely won't bring their most fluffy stuff either.

She's also got about $500 to spend on the Raging Heroes, Toughest Girls 2 pledge-manager, which is partly why she is asking. The KS has clear, clear, counts-as army potential for every single unit in the DEldar Codex, which is why she thought it might be fun. But as I know her well, I know she'll get frustrated with an army that yet again feels like an up-hill battle.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Thanks guys.

The later is her eternal dilemma. She LOVES the aesthetic, and DEldar were the first army that made her want to try the hobby in general... but in the years since she's had a lot of fun with Sisters and Orcs, but has expressed frustration at always have "low tier" armies.

We have no pretense about going to LVO level events and winning, but we do have local ITC counted tournaments at several venues, and it would be nice for her to do well at those. So not highest-level competition, but players likely won't bring their most fluffy stuff either.

She's also got about $500 to spend on the Raging Heroes, Toughest Girls 2 pledge-manager, which is partly why she is asking. The KS has clear, clear, counts-as army potential for every single unit in the DEldar Codex, which is why she thought it might be fun. But as I know her well, I know she'll get frustrated with an army that yet again feels like an up-hill battle.

I'll agree with the above posters but do keep in mind that Eldar, DEldar, and Harlequins are now BFF's. You can put together a very competitive list with these armies in concert, which allows for her to start collecting some Dark Eldar as well. Running Dark Eldar solo is tough though, taking advantage of the allies rules is really their best bet in tournament settings. I feel her pain though. My great loves are Tyranids, Dark Eldar, and Sisters, which means I'm either making extensive use of allies or playing mostly fluffy/casual games.

But doesn't being super-ally-buddies mean less with the newest changes? Like, if you can't transport battle-bros in your transports, doesn't DEldar lose out on their "best" asset?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
But doesn't being super-ally-buddies mean less with the newest changes? Like, if you can't transport battle-bros in your transports, doesn't DEldar lose out on their "best" asset?

Nominally, but the wording of the OP implied a 'pretty competitive' environment versus WAAC. Since Craftworlders aren't exactly hurting for speed themselves you can build an allies list with the various Space Elves using Eldar and Harlequins to make up for the weaknesses of the Dark Eldar codex. In an environment where people are putting out competitive armies but aren't min-maxing to the last point you can have a solid build that can win games whilst still taking advantage of some of that Dark Eldar aesthetic. Dark Eldar can bring lots of firepower and speed to help score points, Eldar can make up for critical DEldar weaknesses in durability and have good anti-air options if you're local meta is air force. Think things like Kabalite warriors / Reaver bikes / Wraithguard ... Aspect Warriors can really fill a lot of cracks in a list as well. Just some thoughts on how to get access to Dark Eldar while still remaining competitive. Obviously if you're in a WAAC environment she'd be better off with Tau/Eldar/'Crons etc.

I'll do what I always do and point you towards Jimsolo's Freakshow Tactica thread, it's by far the most competitive build the Dark Eldar have but relys on allies from Harlequins/Craftowrlds/Corairs to exploit it's strengths fully.

How well it will do will depend entirely on the strength of your local meta, it could be a real beast of a list or it could struggle to reach the top table.

Harlequins can be competitive and quite powerfully anti-meta. The common Eldar list revolves around Scatter Bikers, Warp Spiders and the occasional WK. Farseer here and there but they don't have great Psychic defence. Scatter bikers are very susceptible to leadership tests due to small unit sizes and no way to gain above Ld 8 unless a farseer is there. That makes them a great target for a Death jester, forcing them to test at Ld 6 or fall back 3d6 in a direction of your choosing. Similarly A halequin army has very few obvious targets for D weapons as everything has an invul, cover or can't be shot at all. Not to mention the WK own susceptibility to Psychic Shriek (preferably when under Ld debuffs), Caresses and the Solitaire. Warp Spiders have trouble dealing with Harlequins due to I6 + all around and the Harlequins massive charge range. A Harlequin can charge 20 inches on a good day, ignoring terrain means that they put themselves in danger every time they come in to attack.

They will have trouble against Gladius due to transport saturation, but a well played well made Harlequin army has a chance against every list it faces. And it looks amazing. And even has good Dark Eldar ally options in Haywire Scourges, webway portal toting succubi with armour of misery and leadership debuffing covenite formations.

If she wants to play the aethetic and the theme Harlequins are as close as you get while still being able to play with the big boys.