Charging surrounded units

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**JimOnMars**

If a small enemy unit is locked in combat with a large friendly unit, such that the friendlies completely surround the enemy unit, is it possible for another friendly to declare a charge?

The BRB states that the initial charger of the new unit must move into base contact with the enemy. It seems to me that the second unit would never be able to charge the enemy, even if it had enough distance.

How would you play it?

**DarknessEternal**

Can't reach it, can't charge it.

**Galef**

HIWPI is that if the initial charger does not make base-to-base contact, then the charge fails. Friendly units count as impassible, and thus you cannot assault though them.

This is how I and every opponent I have ever faced has played this. I can't really see any other way to interpret it.

**Caesar3594**

Models must be within 2 inches of a friendly model in base contact with an enemy unit to get attacks in on assault. That means to charge an enemy squad already in melee combat with another one of your squads you have get at least one of your guys within 2 inches of another model in base contact with the enemy, and after manditorily moving your guys as close as possible if you made the charge, and only those within 2 inches of a friendly model in base contact get their attacks in.

But theres also challanges to account for too even earlier then this in most squads on squad fights.

**insaniak**

Caesar3594 wrote:
Models must be within 2 inches of a friendly model in base contact with an enemy unit to get attacks in on assault. That means to charge an enemy squad already in melee combat with another one of your squads you have get at least one of your guys within 2 inches of another model in base contact with the enemy, and after manditorily moving your guys as close as possible if you made the charge, and only those within 2 inches of a friendly model in base contact get their attacks in.

This is not quite right.

Just being within 2" of another model is sufficient for determining who can fight once you reach the Fight sub-phase. But in order for the charge to be successful you have to get at least one model into base contact with the enemy. If you can't do that, you can't charge.

**IllumiNini**

Page 45 of the BRB: There is a sentence that says a unit cannot charge a unit that it cannot reach. I don't know where exactly this next bit is said (or if it's just the widely interpreted meaning of the aforementioned), but this means that if it cannot get into base contact with its intended target, it cannot charge said target.

So in the case of an enemy unit being completely surrounded and thus preventing any more units from entering base contact with said enemy unit, no other unit can charge it.

**JimOnMars**

IllumiNini wrote:
Page 45 of the BRB: There is a sentence that says a unit cannot charge a unit that it cannot reach. I don't know where exactly this next bit is said (or if it's just the widely interpreted meaning of the aforementioned), but this means that if it cannot get into base contact with its intended target, it cannot charge said target.

That's basically my question..the definition of "reach."

Also confusing is p. 47 "If the initial charger is found to be further than its charge range from the enemy, the charge fails and no models are moved." "charge range" seems to imply "as the crow flies" to me.

I am quite happy not allowing the charge if the target is surrounded (or hard to get into base contact.) Too bad this one missed the FAQ...it's almost a RTFM, but not quite.

**IllumiNini**

JimOnMars wrote:
IllumiNini wrote:
Page 45 of the BRB: There is a sentence that says a unit cannot charge a unit that it cannot reach. I don't know where exactly this next bit is said (or if it's just the widely interpreted meaning of the aforementioned), but this means that if it cannot get into base contact with its intended target, it cannot charge said target.
That's basically my question..the definition of "reach."

I think the widely held definition (or at least the definition that is implied by the rules) is that the definition of Reach is that at least on model in the charging unit must make it into base contact with the target unit(s).

JimOnMars wrote:
Also confusing is p. 47 "If the initial charger is found to be further than its charge range from the enemy, the charge fails and no models are moved."

Add this to the details under "Move Initial Charger" in Page 46 and you'll get that you have to move around existing models, terrain, buildings etc when finding the shortest route into base contact. So if the model can't move around to get into base contact (because, for example, the target unit is surrounded), then it fails the charge.

JimOnMars wrote:
"charge range" seems to imply "as the crow flies" to me.

The association between Charge Range and As the Crow Flies is usually because the units are commonly in positions which means that As the Crow Flies applies. The Charge Range refers to the shortest unhindered path to their target.

**nosferatu1001**

JimOnMars wrote:
IllumiNini wrote:
Page 45 of the BRB: There is a sentence that says a unit cannot charge a unit that it cannot reach. I don't know where exactly this next bit is said (or if it's just the widely interpreted meaning of the aforementioned), but this means that if it cannot get into base contact with its intended target, it cannot charge said target.
That's basically my question..the definition of "reach."

Also confusing is p. 47 "If the initial charger is found to be further than its charge range from the enemy, the charge fails and no models are moved." "charge range" seems to imply "as the crow flies" to me.

I am quite happy not allowing the charge if the target is surrounded (or hard to get into base contact.) Too bad this one missed the FAQ...it's almost a RTFM, but not quite.

Can you comply with te very first instruction, which is to move the closest model in thecharging unit into base ot base with the unit being charged? Yes or No

**JimOnMars**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
JimOnMars wrote:
IllumiNini wrote:
Page 45 of the BRB: There is a sentence that says a unit cannot charge a unit that it cannot reach. I don't know where exactly this next bit is said (or if it's just the widely interpreted meaning of the aforementioned), but this means that if it cannot get into base contact with its intended target, it cannot charge said target.
That's basically my question..the definition of "reach."

Also confusing is p. 47 "If the initial charger is found to be further than its charge range from the enemy, the charge fails and no models are moved." "charge range" seems to imply "as the crow flies" to me.

I am quite happy not allowing the charge if the target is surrounded (or hard to get into base contact.) Too bad this one missed the FAQ...it's almost a RTFM, but not quite.

Can you comply with te very first instruction, which is to move the closest model in thecharging unit into base ot base with the unit being charged? Yes or No

No. Obviously that's the controlling rule here that I had been overlooking.

Often I would charge with grots to eat overwatch then pile in with the big boyz. I had been getting away with it--I will have to be careful from now on to allow a gap so that one boy can legally charge.

**nosferatu1001**

As long as you comply with every other rule - usually to leave a gap you'll have to move further away models before those closer