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TheWanderer wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:
It was always pretty clear to me that the TYranids are the utlimate anti Chaos weapon.

Once they kill and consume everyone they themselves are are not feeding any of the chaos gods so bye bye chaos.

Infact its probable that you would end up with a new "Tyranid Super God" in the warp, which is probably what you have everywhere else the Tyranids have been

OTOH daemons are excelent tyranid killers. For starters they respawn. For second defeat does not strengthen the tyranid. Whereupon imperial regiments sent against tyranids will be used against Imperium if they are defeated(devoured and used to generate more tyranids) daemons just vanish leaving no biomass to harvest and turn into more tyranids.

you are talking tyranid vs chaos. I am talking tyranid vs the mortal realms. The tyranids kill off the mortals thats the end of chaos

And since chaos gods take dim view on that they have vested interest in sending in their daemons against tyranids.

Tyranids might be ultimate anti-chaos weapon but reverse could also be said.

What? You think chaos gods are going to just be sitting thwidling their thumbs while tyranids go around killing living beings? I don't think so...

Yes tyranids killing every living thing in the universum would kill chaos gods. That's why chaos will be fighting against tyranids. And unlike say imperium or orks daemons hold very distinct advantage when it comes to fighting tyranids...Daemon dies it goes poof and comes later back without resulting in even more powerful tyranid fleet. Unlike mortal fighters.

tneva82 wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:
It was always pretty clear to me that the TYranids are the utlimate anti Chaos weapon.

Once they kill and consume everyone they themselves are are not feeding any of the chaos gods so bye bye chaos.

Infact its probable that you would end up with a new "Tyranid Super God" in the warp, which is probably what you have everywhere else the Tyranids have been

OTOH daemons are excelent tyranid killers. For starters they respawn. For second defeat does not strengthen the tyranid. Whereupon imperial regiments sent against tyranids will be used against Imperium if they are defeated(devoured and used to generate more tyranids) daemons just vanish leaving no biomass to harvest and turn into more tyranids.

you are talking tyranid vs chaos. I am talking tyranid vs the mortal realms. The tyranids kill off the mortals thats the end of chaos

And since chaos gods take dim view on that they have vested interest in sending in their daemons against tyranids.

Tyranids might be ultimate anti-chaos weapon but reverse could also be said.

What? You think chaos gods are going to just be sitting thwidling their thumbs while tyranids go around killing living beings? I don't think so...

Yes tyranids killing every living thing in the universum would kill chaos gods. That's why chaos will be fighting against tyranids. And unlike say imperium or orks daemons hold very distinct advantage when it comes to fighting tyranids...Daemon dies it goes poof and comes later back without resulting in even more powerful tyranid fleet. Unlike mortal fighters.

This is what I was getting at. Chaos would not LET Tyranids control Real space. As for a source omn other universes feeding the Chaos Gods, try WHFB/AoS maybe?

 Chaos Spawn wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:
It was always pretty clear to me that the TYranids are the utlimate anti Chaos weapon.

Once they kill and consume everyone they themselves are are not feeding any of the chaos gods so bye bye chaos.

Infact its probable that you would end up with a new "Tyranid Super God" in the warp, which is probably what you have everywhere else the Tyranids have been

OTOH daemons are excelent tyranid killers. For starters they respawn. For second defeat does not strengthen the tyranid. Whereupon imperial regiments sent against tyranids will be used against Imperium if they are defeated(devoured and used to generate more tyranids) daemons just vanish leaving no biomass to harvest and turn into more tyranids.

you are talking tyranid vs chaos. I am talking tyranid vs the mortal realms. The tyranids kill off the mortals thats the end of chaos

And since chaos gods take dim view on that they have vested interest in sending in their daemons against tyranids.

Tyranids might be ultimate anti-chaos weapon but reverse could also be said.

What? You think chaos gods are going to just be sitting thwidling their thumbs while tyranids go around killing living beings? I don't think so...

Yes tyranids killing every living thing in the universum would kill chaos gods. That's why chaos will be fighting against tyranids. And unlike say imperium or orks daemons hold very distinct advantage when it comes to fighting tyranids...Daemon dies it goes poof and comes later back without resulting in even more powerful tyranid fleet. Unlike mortal fighters.

This is what I was getting at. Chaos would not LET Tyranids control Real space. As for a source omn other universes feeding the Chaos Gods, try WHFB/AoS maybe?

The key factor not being discussed is the Hive Mind itself and the shadow in the warp. It's not inconceivable that there is a tyranid God of sorts already, that is what gives the shadow and controls the synapse.

Assuming this consciousness is as powerful in its warp blanketing capacity within the warp as out of it; given that it nullifies all psychic activity leaving the area, it could potentially be used to neuter the warp storms.

Dudeface wrote:

 Chaos Spawn wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:
It was always pretty clear to me that the TYranids are the utlimate anti Chaos weapon.

Once they kill and consume everyone they themselves are are not feeding any of the chaos gods so bye bye chaos.

Infact its probable that you would end up with a new "Tyranid Super God" in the warp, which is probably what you have everywhere else the Tyranids have been

OTOH daemons are excelent tyranid killers. For starters they respawn. For second defeat does not strengthen the tyranid. Whereupon imperial regiments sent against tyranids will be used against Imperium if they are defeated(devoured and used to generate more tyranids) daemons just vanish leaving no biomass to harvest and turn into more tyranids.

you are talking tyranid vs chaos. I am talking tyranid vs the mortal realms. The tyranids kill off the mortals thats the end of chaos

And since chaos gods take dim view on that they have vested interest in sending in their daemons against tyranids.

Tyranids might be ultimate anti-chaos weapon but reverse could also be said.

What? You think chaos gods are going to just be sitting thwidling their thumbs while tyranids go around killing living beings? I don't think so...

Yes tyranids killing every living thing in the universum would kill chaos gods. That's why chaos will be fighting against tyranids. And unlike say imperium or orks daemons hold very distinct advantage when it comes to fighting tyranids...Daemon dies it goes poof and comes later back without resulting in even more powerful tyranid fleet. Unlike mortal fighters.

This is what I was getting at. Chaos would not LET Tyranids control Real space. As for a source omn other universes feeding the Chaos Gods, try WHFB/AoS maybe?

The key factor not being discussed is the Hive Mind itself and the shadow in the warp. It's not inconceivable that there is a tyranid God of sorts already, that is what gives the shadow and controls the synapse.

Assuming this consciousness is as powerful in its warp blanketing capacity within the warp as out of it; given that it nullifies all psychic activity leaving the area, it could potentially be used to neuter the warp storms.

That doesn't seem possible. The SitW blocks a psykers connection to the Warp by drowning them out with traffic. But in a Warp Storm you're IN the Warp there isn't a link to block.

Going back to OP, Abaddon seems to have a 'nid skull on his trophy rack (a mighty gaunt at that!), so I guess he has clashed claws with them at least once.

TheWanderer wrote:

In comparison to the whole rest of the galaxy? no.

Its not the effect the tyranids themselves have its the effect them eating every other thing in the galaxy would have. the tiny scraps of emotion and soul that are left on the daemon worlds in the eye or any other rift are tiny tiny tiny in comparison to the extinquiching of every single sentient life in the material world. The Chaos Gods are the conglomerate of all of that, you take away 99% of it and what are the Chaos Gods any more?

Plus is there any evidence that a creature in the warp can sustain the chaos gods?

Still going to have enough to keep the Ruinous Powers going. Same food source, just less of it.

The Eye of Terror =\= the Warp. Besides that, why wouldn't a creature in the Warp sustain them? It could still feel emotion and still has a connection to the Warp so I see no reason why not.

what risk? They have consumed the whole galaxy, the chaos gods will be reduced to imps in comparison to what they are now and the tyranids will have all the biomass of the galaxy

In the Eye of Terror the Tyranids would be facing endless forces whereas the Tyranids for all their numbers are limited. Additionally they seem fairly vulnerable to extreme Warp exposure (what with the Dominus Astra destroying a large chunk of Hive fleet Behemoth by plunging it into the Warp).

Also according to Dead Sky Black Sun Chaos abounds in other galaxies too.

Dead Sky, Black Sun (page 299 in the Ultramarines Omnibus I think) wrote:Awful knowledge flooded Uriel as he stared into the portal opened in the fabric of the universe. He saw galaxies of billions upon billions of souls harvested and fed to the Lord of Skulls, the Blood God.

'Emperor's mercy,' wept Uriel as he felt each of these deaths lodge like a splinter in his heart. New life and new purpose had once filled these galaxies, but now all was death, slaughtered to sate the hunger of the Blood God… whose fell name was a dark presence staining the coppery wind that blew from the portal, a stench of deepest, darkest red, whose purpose was embodied in but a single rune and a legend of simple devotion: Blood for the Blood God… Khome… Khorne… Khorne…

oldravenman3025 wrote:There were also instances of daemon worlds and chaos held worlds being overrun by Leviathan. On the Iron Warriors holding of Forgefane, the Tyranids cleaned house, even wiping out over 600 Defilers in just a few hours.

The Nids of Leviathan also had a go at the forces of the Daemon Prince M'kar the Reborn on Sondheim V. It was a knock-down, drag-out fight that was still up in the air when the Sky Sentinels Chapter arrived, assessed the situation, and said to hell with that. They initiated Exterminatus, delaying only long enough for the Grey Knights to recover the Book of Pandegaras from the planet,

Fair enough.

Aha, I remember that. Does M'kar ever succeed?

pm713 wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:

pm713 wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:

I think you are missing my point. When the emotionless tyranids control the material universe and there is no other life and no other emotions what do you think the chaos gods will be? Ok there will be the little cults you mentioned holding out in the warp for a bit. then they will be gone. the warp will go back to being a sea of energy without form other than whatever effect the only living thing in existance, the tyrnaids, have on it. There for if the "Chaos" gods exist at all, they will be formed by the effect of the tyranids.

Iof the Tyranids are emotionless they will have no effect on the Ruinous Powers.

pm713 is, I believe, primarily referring to areas of Warp-realspace overlap such as the Eye of Terror and Maelstrom. While Tyranids are capable of going there such a campaign would be fraught with risk even for their numbers. As such the mortals living there would contain to sustain the Ruinous Powers. As for the number of planets considering the Eye of Terror subsumed of the vast majority of the old Eldar Empire I'd hazard quite a lot.

In comparison to the whole rest of the galaxy? no.

Its not the effect the tyranids themselves have its the effect them eating every other thing in the galaxy would have. the tiny scraps of emotion and soul that are left on the daemon worlds in the eye or any other rift are tiny tiny tiny in comparison to the extinquiching of every single sentient life in the material world. The Chaos Gods are the conglomerate of all of that, you take away 99% of it and what are the Chaos Gods any more?

Plus is there any evidence that a creature in the warp can sustain the chaos gods?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
While Tyranids are capable of going there such a campaign would be fraught with risk even for their numbers.

what risk? They have consumed the whole galaxy, the chaos gods will be reduced to imps in comparison to what they are now and the tyranids will have all the biomass of the galaxy

Is there any evidence or reason they can't? We seem to disagree on how much worship there is in the Warp. You have every single planet in the Eye of Terror, the Maelstrom, the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath and every single other Warp Storm. Considering that's at the very least all the planets making up the centre of the Eldar Empire. That is enough to sustain the Chaos Gods.

The transition isn't instantaneous. If they enter the Warp then they face every Chaos Marine, every cult, literally endless Daemons and the Chaos Gods themselves. Considering that Slaanesh is the weakest and they have thousands if not millions of Eldar souls to use as power before the power accumalated since the Fall which when you consider how much psychic power your basic Eldar has means that there's a lot of Psychic death to send at Tyranids.

They dont need to go near the warp, the warp is a prison for chaos, if everything in the material universe is tyranid and therefore not contributing towards giving anything to chaos and the warp any more then its just a matter of time. Daemons are massively limited on how they can enter the material world at the best of times and with none of the lesser species left to act as a conduit they are even more restricted. your endless daemons can sit in there and rot. As for all the chaos marines and cults, they cant muster up enough to get far past cadia now let along do anything beyond that.

the chaos gods would simple starve, no matter their "reserves" if there is nothing left to feed them a new its over, jsut a matter of time.

You seem to have ignored me saying "IF THEY ENTER THE WARP". If they wanted to kill the Chaos Gods they have to do that.

The basic disagreement here seems to be that I think the Chaos Gods can survive in the Warp without realspace worshippers while you do not.

I agree that is the point of disagreement. I dont feel it necessary to enter the warp to defeat the Chaos Gods, just to take over the material universe and thus remove the emotions and souls that allow the Chaos Gods to exist


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:

In comparison to the whole rest of the galaxy? no.

Its not the effect the tyranids themselves have its the effect them eating every other thing in the galaxy would have. the tiny scraps of emotion and soul that are left on the daemon worlds in the eye or any other rift are tiny tiny tiny in comparison to the extinquiching of every single sentient life in the material world. The Chaos Gods are the conglomerate of all of that, you take away 99% of it and what are the Chaos Gods any more?

Plus is there any evidence that a creature in the warp can sustain the chaos gods?

Still going to have enough to keep the Ruinous Powers going. Same food source, just less of it.

The Eye of Terror =\= the Warp. Besides that, why wouldn't a creature in the Warp sustain them? It could still feel emotion and still has a connection to the Warp so I see no reason why not.

what risk? They have consumed the whole galaxy, the chaos gods will be reduced to imps in comparison to what they are now and the tyranids will have all the biomass of the galaxy

In the Eye of Terror the Tyranids would be facing endless forces whereas the Tyranids for all their numbers are limited. Additionally they seem fairly vulnerable to extreme Warp exposure (what with the Dominus Astra destroying a large chunk of Hive fleet Behemoth by plunging it into the Warp).

Also according to Dead Sky Black Sun Chaos abounds in other galaxies too.

Dead Sky, Black Sun (page 299 in the Ultramarines Omnibus I think) wrote:Awful knowledge flooded Uriel as he stared into the portal opened in the fabric of the universe. He saw galaxies of billions upon billions of souls harvested and fed to the Lord of Skulls, the Blood God.

'Emperor's mercy,' wept Uriel as he felt each of these deaths lodge like a splinter in his heart. New life and new purpose had once filled these galaxies, but now all was death, slaughtered to sate the hunger of the Blood God… whose fell name was a dark presence staining the coppery wind that blew from the portal, a stench of deepest, darkest red, whose purpose was embodied in but a single rune and a legend of simple devotion: Blood for the Blood God… Khome… Khorne… Khorne…

oldravenman3025 wrote:There were also instances of daemon worlds and chaos held worlds being overrun by Leviathan. On the Iron Warriors holding of Forgefane, the Tyranids cleaned house, even wiping out over 600 Defilers in just a few hours.

The Nids of Leviathan also had a go at the forces of the Daemon Prince M'kar the Reborn on Sondheim V. It was a knock-down, drag-out fight that was still up in the air when the Sky Sentinels Chapter arrived, assessed the situation, and said to hell with that. They initiated Exterminatus, delaying only long enough for the Grey Knights to recover the Book of Pandegaras from the planet,

Fair enough.

Aha, I remember that. Does M'kar ever succeed?

I do appreciate the warp =/= to the eye of terror, my comment regarding it was the suggestion that the Eldar Homeworlds being a large number of worlds was significant. The Eye is where the homeworlds were, a reletively small number of planets when compared to the whole galaxy.

I do not suggest that the mortals in the warp currently would not be able to support the Chaos Gods for a period but incomparision to the loss of the whole of the galaxy the numbers remaining to them are small.

with regards to Dead SKy Black Sun it would suggest the source is not totally reliable but beyond that it talks about galaxies not universes and the same premise can be extended to the TYranids they have swept up and eaten whole other galaxies across the universe.

TheWanderer wrote:

I do appreciate the warp =/= to the eye of terror, my comment regarding it was the suggestion that the Eldar Homeworlds being a large number of worlds was significant. The Eye is where the homeworlds were, a reletively small number of planets when compared to the whole galaxy.

I do not suggest that the mortals in the warp currently would not be able to support the Chaos Gods for a period but incomparision to the loss of the whole of the galaxy the numbers remaining to them are small.

with regards to Dead SKy Black Sun it would suggest the source is not totally reliable but beyond that it talks about galaxies not universes and the same premise can be extended to the TYranids they have swept up and eaten whole other galaxies across the universe.

The Eye is where the Eldar Empire was. Considering it was the most powerful Empire in the galaxy for millions of years if I recall correctly it's probably quite densely packed. Additionally with the Warpiness inherent standard rules need not apply so you could have trillions of people subsisting on a planet the size of earth. Still, you're right, the numbers would be less. Though in the short term at least the Ruinous Powers would likely increase in power due to the heightened emotions etc the Tyranids eating everyone would cause. The Ruinous Powers may end up weaker but they'd still survive.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
The Fall of Shadowbrink was conflict between Tyranids mid-consuming a world and Daemons from suddenly opened Warp portal due to artefact X. As I recall the Tyranids initially ignored the Daemons due to a lack of usable biomass (though how the Tyranids knew that I have no idea) and it was only after the Daemons started attacking them that they responded. Eventually the Tyranids won. Quite a small battle though really; only four Greater Daemons were involved and none were depicted as particularly powerful. Also basically stated that Tyranids being killed don't feed Khorne I think. Pretty poorly written in my opinion.

The Hive Mind would have known what they were from their psychic energy I guess?

It's almost as if the fluff is written to be a huge stalemate, so everyone is almost on the verge of winning and ultimate destruction at the same time - what a huge narrative convenience for a universe trying to constantly give a reason for people to feel like their army is powerful, and not just an never ending grind of new models and retcons.

Tell me about how close the 13th Crusade/Huge Waahg/Fall of Commorragh/Return of the Silent King is again? Oh wait... *sigh*

IMO Chaos has to want the Tyranids gone because of their affect on the rest of the galaxy. IIRC, Slaanesh was born of Eldar emotional excess, and Khorne/Tzeentch/Nurgle came about because of human emotions. None of these things had anything to do with planets of daemons worshipping the gods within the warp. They derive their power from the mortal realm and the emotions that come with it.

Tyranids are a threat to every living thing in the galaxy and thus the food source of Chaos gods, as it were. The gods of Chaos may not -want- to fight Tyranids due to the lack of indulgence/hatred/honour/just-as-planned/decay but they have a vested interest in seeing the Tyranids destroyed or repelled.

 Jpogfreak886 wrote:
It's almost as if the fluff is written to be a huge stalemate, so everyone is almost on the verge of winning and ultimate destruction at the same time - what a huge narrative convenience for a universe trying to constantly give a reason for people to feel like their army is powerful, and not just an never ending grind of new models and retcons.

Tell me about how close the 13th Crusade/Huge Waahg/Fall of Commorragh/Return of the Silent King is again? Oh wait... *sigh*

Don't you dare to hope GW will ever actually make it happen. GW did that for WHFB, and it sucked. Turns out that the end of the world is not so much fun as it sounds

 Zan wrote:
IMO Chaos has to want the Tyranids gone because of their affect on the rest of the galaxy. IIRC, Slaanesh was born of Eldar emotional excess, and Khorne/Tzeentch/Nurgle came about because of human emotions. None of these things had anything to do with planets of daemons worshipping the gods within the warp. They derive their power from the mortal realm and the emotions that come with it.

Tyranids are a threat to every living thing in the galaxy and thus the food source of Chaos gods, as it were. The gods of Chaos may not -want- to fight Tyranids due to the lack of indulgence/hatred/honour/just-as-planned/decay but they have a vested interest in seeing the Tyranids destroyed or repelled.

Exactly my point.

Tyranids eating the mortal realms would be a death blow to the Chaos Gods

TheWanderer wrote:

 Zan wrote:
IMO Chaos has to want the Tyranids gone because of their affect on the rest of the galaxy. IIRC, Slaanesh was born of Eldar emotional excess, and Khorne/Tzeentch/Nurgle came about because of human emotions. None of these things had anything to do with planets of daemons worshipping the gods within the warp. They derive their power from the mortal realm and the emotions that come with it.

Tyranids are a threat to every living thing in the galaxy and thus the food source of Chaos gods, as it were. The gods of Chaos may not -want- to fight Tyranids due to the lack of indulgence/hatred/honour/just-as-planned/decay but they have a vested interest in seeing the Tyranids destroyed or repelled.

Exactly my point.

Tyranids eating the mortal realms would be a death blow to the Chaos Gods

And our point is how do they conquer Realspace, because Chaos will not just sit back and let them.

Isn't there already a tyranid presence in the warp? Like the hive mind being THE shadow in the warp or some such.
I wonder if that consumes things?

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
Sadly you couldn't redirect a Tyranids Hive Fleet to the Eye of Terror. Yes they would kill daemons, but they would likely not want to stay there because of the lack of biomass.

Effectively it would be like starting a land war in Russia with no provisions... During the start of winter.

Would it be as bad as going up against a Sicilian when death is on the line?

tneva82 wrote:
And since chaos gods take dim view on that they have vested interest in sending in their daemons against tyranids.

Tyranids might be ultimate anti-chaos weapon but reverse could also be said.

What? You think chaos gods are going to just be sitting thwidling their thumbs while tyranids go around killing living beings? I don't think so...

How, pray tell, are the Chaos Gods going to send their Daemons to fight the Nids if the Shadow in the Warp is blocking anyone from being able to summon them? I assume we're talking outside of the Warp Storms here, anyway.

 Chaos Spawn wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:

 Zan wrote:
IMO Chaos has to want the Tyranids gone because of their affect on the rest of the galaxy. IIRC, Slaanesh was born of Eldar emotional excess, and Khorne/Tzeentch/Nurgle came about because of human emotions. None of these things had anything to do with planets of daemons worshipping the gods within the warp. They derive their power from the mortal realm and the emotions that come with it.

Tyranids are a threat to every living thing in the galaxy and thus the food source of Chaos gods, as it were. The gods of Chaos may not -want- to fight Tyranids due to the lack of indulgence/hatred/honour/just-as-planned/decay but they have a vested interest in seeing the Tyranids destroyed or repelled.

Exactly my point.

Tyranids eating the mortal realms would be a death blow to the Chaos Gods

And our point is how do they conquer Realspace, because Chaos will not just sit back and let them.

but you concede that if they cosume all sentient life in realspace that would be the end of the chaos gods?

TheWanderer wrote:

 Chaos Spawn wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:

 Zan wrote:
IMO Chaos has to want the Tyranids gone because of their affect on the rest of the galaxy. IIRC, Slaanesh was born of Eldar emotional excess, and Khorne/Tzeentch/Nurgle came about because of human emotions. None of these things had anything to do with planets of daemons worshipping the gods within the warp. They derive their power from the mortal realm and the emotions that come with it.

Tyranids are a threat to every living thing in the galaxy and thus the food source of Chaos gods, as it were. The gods of Chaos may not -want- to fight Tyranids due to the lack of indulgence/hatred/honour/just-as-planned/decay but they have a vested interest in seeing the Tyranids destroyed or repelled.

Exactly my point.

Tyranids eating the mortal realms would be a death blow to the Chaos Gods

And our point is how do they conquer Realspace, because Chaos will not just sit back and let them.

but you concede that if they cosume all sentient life in realspace that would be the end of the chaos gods?

There are Orks outside the galaxy, so Khorne would survive there.

Also, it is questionable whether or not the Shadow in the Warp is powerful enough to quell something like the Eye of Terror (and similar regions where the warp bleeds over). If not, then the Gods can survive on the souls/people already within those regions. If those were the only ones left, I'm pretty certain the Chaos Gods would take an active hand in translating daemons to the frontline within those regions (they wouldn't need to be summoned), and breeding live species (humans, etc) within them (we've seen that within several chaos run planet stories) to supplement them. As they control time within those regions to boot, they could theoretically throw endless wave after wave out of the eye of terror. What good that would do in a galaxy controlled by nids is debatable, but it would certainly be a stalemate situation.

 Ketara wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:

 Chaos Spawn wrote:

TheWanderer wrote:

 Zan wrote:
IMO Chaos has to want the Tyranids gone because of their affect on the rest of the galaxy. IIRC, Slaanesh was born of Eldar emotional excess, and Khorne/Tzeentch/Nurgle came about because of human emotions. None of these things had anything to do with planets of daemons worshipping the gods within the warp. They derive their power from the mortal realm and the emotions that come with it.

Tyranids are a threat to every living thing in the galaxy and thus the food source of Chaos gods, as it were. The gods of Chaos may not -want- to fight Tyranids due to the lack of indulgence/hatred/honour/just-as-planned/decay but they have a vested interest in seeing the Tyranids destroyed or repelled.

Exactly my point.

Tyranids eating the mortal realms would be a death blow to the Chaos Gods

And our point is how do they conquer Realspace, because Chaos will not just sit back and let them.

but you concede that if they cosume all sentient life in realspace that would be the end of the chaos gods?

There are Orks outside the galaxy, so Khorne would survive there.

Also, it is questionable whether or not the Shadow in the Warp is powerful enough to quell something like the Eye of Terror (and similar regions where the warp bleeds over). If not, then the Gods can survive on the souls/people already within those regions. If those were the only ones left, I'm pretty certain the Chaos Gods would take an active hand in translating daemons to the frontline within those regions (they wouldn't need to be summoned), and breeding live species (humans, etc) within them (we've seen that within several chaos run planet stories) to supplement them. As they control time within those regions to boot, they could theoretically throw endless wave after wave out of the eye of terror. What good that would do in a galaxy controlled by nids is debatable, but it would certainly be a stalemate situation.

I am totally happen that Chaos will (and possibly already does) have some sort of "in warp breeding programme" however I think it wholely unlikely that it would be anything like the scale of sentient life that exists now in the mortal realm and gives form to the Chaos Gods as they are today. Therefore if they survive at all they would be a fraction of what they are today both in power and sentience/structure.

As to the suggestion they control time and could generate waves of creatures I would suggest if they could do that, they would have done that when they were trying to rule the galaxy during the Heresy and yet they didnt.

The fact that the Chaos Gods control time and space within the Eye is canon. If you control time and space and have a breeding programme for humans within it (also canon), you can raise armies of whatever size you like.

Remember that the Eye of Terror was uninhabited by humanity during the Heresy (as far as we know, Lorgar was the first to send his Word Bearers in), and since then the Gods have only paid a fraction of attention to the mortal realm (spending most of their time playing the Great Game within the Eye).

 Ketara wrote:
The fact that the Chaos Gods control time and space within the Eye is canon. If you control time and space and have a breeding programme for humans within it (also canon), you can raise armies of whatever size you like.

And yet even when they were all united in purpose and had the appropriate motivation to do so they didnt. Meaning that while on some limited or unpredicatable level maipulation of time is possible in the warp its not possible on a useful wholescale directed and focussed level that could achieve what would be needed to balance out the total lose of sentient life in the mortal realm.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Isn't there already a tyranid presence in the warp? Like the hive mind being THE shadow in the warp or some such.
I wonder if that consumes things?

The Shadow in the Warp is basically loads of yelling between Tyranids.

 Ketara wrote:

There are Orks outside the galaxy, so Khorne would survive there.

Point of contention - Ork players and lore fans always point out that Orks may not in fact feed Khorne.

This is dependent of course if whether Gork and Mork actually exist in 40K....

GrapeApe wrote:

 Ketara wrote:

There are Orks outside the galaxy, so Khorne would survive there.

Point of contention - Ork players and lore fans always point out that Orks may not in fact feed Khorne.

This is dependent of course if whether Gork and Mork actually exist in 40K....

I`m pretty sure that they are feeding him, atleast to some extent. If I remember correctly there was a story of an ork waghboss who lead his army into the warp itself only to land on a khorne planet, where khorne send wave after wave of demons against the orks who reproduce with their spores just to fight and die again. Which basically makes both factions happy. The orks have constant enemies and khorne has constant blood shed.

Fauk wrote:

I`m pretty sure that they are feeding him, atleast to some extent. If I remember correctly there was a story of an ork waghboss who lead his army into the warp itself only to land on a khorne planet, where khorne send wave after wave of demons against the orks who reproduce with their spores just to fight and die again. Which basically makes both factions happy. The orks have constant enemies and khorne has constant blood shed.

The Orks are actually resurrected (or just don't really die) as well as releasing spores. This doesn't necessarily mean they feed Khorne only that he enjoys it though.

I think ya'll are forgetting about the Tyranid "shadow in the Warp". From the older edition accounts, it almost sounds like the presence of the hive mind via shadow of the warp would be disruptive/push back daemon occupation.

One could say that Tyranids impose absolute law on the Warp from their highly structured hive mind - the complete antithesis of the presence of Chaos.

Necrons are closer to the antithesis than Tyranids. Tyranids effect the Warp but Necrons don't at all.

pm713 wrote:
Necrons are closer to the antithesis than Tyranids. Tyranids effect the Warp but Necrons don't at all.

totally agree, if there were only Necrons left in the galaxy then bye bye Chaos Gods.

Only thing with them is that in the new fluff I dont think they are that bothered in the "kill everything" vibe that the Tyanids have are they?

And without doubt in the old fluff they definately didnt want to kill everything as that was the C'Tan food and the near extinction of life was why they went into hibernation.

TheWanderer wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Necrons are closer to the antithesis than Tyranids. Tyranids effect the Warp but Necrons don't at all.

totally agree, if there were only Necrons left in the galaxy then bye bye Chaos Gods.

Only thing with them is that in the new fluff I dont think they are that bothered in the "kill everything" vibe that the Tyanids have are they?

And without doubt in the old fluff they definately didnt want to kill everything as that was the C'Tan food and the near extinction of life was why they went into hibernation.

Now they want to take over peoples bodies.

This won't really add much to the argument, the conclusion has already been said and it might have been retconned but it's an interesting little piece of fluff. When the Tyranids first arrived the Imperium soon discovered that they where avoiding several planets in their path, planets that actually contained life/biomass. When the Imperium investigated it turned out that the these planets where actually Necron tomb worlds. This led to two ideas back in the day:
1: Tyranids are scared of necrons because their gauss tech destroys the biomass so they can't recycle it.
2: The Tyranids are controlled by a C'tan (*ahem* the outsider, pre retcon) so know of the tomb worlds and are actively avoiding them.

Now the second part has been retconned but the first part still holds some ground with a similar logic applied to chaos as has been applied to the Necrons. Of course cultists and chaos legions are a different story.

On the "chaos would die if Tyranids won" debate I'd say Necrons/tyranids/deamons "win" and the warp will either go Empyrian or be silent. Orks/Imperium/Eldars/Tau "win" and it'll stay pretty much the same.