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Hi everyone. This is largely based off of a list MiniWarGamer Jay had on his youtube, with some modifications I made. This is my first list. The emphasis was on CHEAP! I've spent about $250, and got a bunch of extra models not included in this list.

-Battle Demi Company-
DV Company Master [115]
Combi-Plasma
Power sword

5 Man DV Tac Squad [85]
plasma pistol for sarge

5 Man DV Tac Squad [85]
plasma pistol for sarge

5 Man DV Tac Squad [85]
plasma pistol for sarge

Assault Squad [85-120] (un-modeled. Unsure on load out)
Jump Packs x5
Flamer x2
Excavator

Devastator Squad [130]
plasma annon x4
plasma pistol for sarge

-Inner Circle-

Librarian [90]
Mastery lvl 2

-Ravenwing Attack Squadron-

6 Man Ravenwing Bike Squad [180]
plasma gun x2

Land Speeder [50]

-Deathwing Redemption Force-

Interrogator Chaplain [150??? HELP!!!]
Terminator Armor + Storm Bolter
Powerfist
(How do I give this model a Storm Bolter?!)

DV 5 Man Terminator Squad [225]
Assault Cannon
Chain Fist

DV 5 Man Terminator Squad [225]
Assault Cannon
Chain Fist

Total- 1505-1540 depending on Assault Squad Load (and if I did the Interrogator Chaplain right. lol)

Thanks for reading.
-Juicy

What kind of feedback are you looking for?

Most important is probably never pay for plasma pistols. Unless you're opponent's a jerk just play them as combi plasmas.

JuicyPVP wrote:
Hi everyone. This is largely based off of a list MiniWarGamer Jay had on his youtube, with some modifications I made. This is my first list. The emphasis was on CHEAP! I've spent about $250, and got a bunch of extra models not included in this list.

-Battle Demi Company-
DV Company Master [115]
Combi-Plasma
Power sword

5 Man DV Tac Squad [85]
plasma pistol for sarge

5 Man DV Tac Squad [85]
plasma pistol for sarge

5 Man DV Tac Squad [85]
plasma pistol for sarge

Assault Squad [85-120] (un-modeled. Unsure on load out)
Jump Packs x5
Flamer x2
Excavator

Devastator Squad [130]
plasma annon x4
plasma pistol for sarge

-Inner Circle-

Librarian [90]
Mastery lvl 2

-Ravenwing Attack Squadron-

6 Man Ravenwing Bike Squad [180]
plasma gun x2

Land Speeder [50]

-Deathwing Redemption Force-

Interrogator Chaplain [150??? HELP!!!]
Terminator Armor + Storm Bolter
Powerfist
(How do I give this model a Storm Bolter?!)

DV 5 Man Terminator Squad [225]
Assault Cannon
Chain Fist

DV 5 Man Terminator Squad [225]
Assault Cannon
Chain Fist

Total- 1505-1540 depending on Assault Squad Load (and if I did the Interrogator Chaplain right. lol)

Thanks for reading.
-Juicy

Okay thinkabout a few things. You want a role for everything in your army and objectives and your army powers. You have BS 2 overwatch and you can pump that to BS 4 2with a lions blade. Also you are stubborn. So with your list you need objective secure, You lack anti-air and antitank. If I may I would suggest you are close to a Lions Blade. With objective secure you want some speed and more objective secure.

So I would change your tacs to 5 man with vet sgt with melta bomb and a plasma gun and put tnem in a lasplas rasorback so that gives you antitank good MECTEC killing power and the vet SGT makes you more likely to be successful on morale tests. So 175 per 525 for all 3. Devastators I would switch them out for Missile Launchers to give them a powerful weapon in overwatch at the same cost. Put them in a rasorback also. So 205 Finally build your assault squad without jump packs and a veteran sergeant and put them also in a rasorback lose the eviserator so 165 npw attach your captain and you have a counter attack unit.To optimise your CC potential give him artificer armor and the Mace of Retribution so 140. So 935 for your lions blade

minimise your RW go 3 bikes with Grav Guns and a landspeeder with 2 MM or 2 HB

Now add in your DW with the librarian. Sorry you lose the interrogator for points.

Or lose the RW and keep your DW intact.

In terms of big changes, 4x Rhinos or Razorbacks would really help to protect your troops and increase their mobility. But if you don't have the models, we can still try and compensate. Like DAddict said, think about the role of every unit.

1) Without mobility, your Tac Squads and Devastators will be playing more of a backfield role of protecting objectives and fire support.
2) Your forward force will be your Assault Marines, Ravenwing and Deathwing. They are your maneuver elements.
3) Your characters will support the various squads.
4) Your weapons will support the effect you need upon the enemy.

Here's some ideas once we start assigning points.

- Devastators might be situated a long, long way from their target. Lascannons might make more sense with their 48" reach.
- Tactical Marines can serve two roles, both protecting the Devastators and as minor fire support. Heavy weapons make more sense than 12" Pistols. So say they have 3x Plasma Cannons to fight off Deep Strikers, and Meltabombs if they need to stop a walker. But keep them cheap.
- The ML2 Librarian can help buff the Devastators with Prescience and Perfect Timing. However, without mobility, he's very inflexible. It would make a lot of sense to equip a Bike so he can join Ravenwing if necessary.

That's your firebase sorted out (530pts). Next let's look at the Assault Marines and Ravenwing Formation.

- The Land Speeder is very simple, it's a fast platform for shooting.
- The Bikes are similar, but they can also assault if needed. Remember you can attach the Librarian.
- The Assault Marines are very good at attacking weaker infantry, which they can sweep. They will bounce off tough units with good saves, but you can attach the Company Master to help.

So, upgrades. Your anti-vehicle shooting is limited, so it's helpful to put 2x Multimeltas on the Land Speeder. Grav Guns are great on Ravenwing but even better with the Librarian. Prescience and Ignore Cover can improve their shooting, and Grav can inflict Concussive for the Librarian to kill big targets with Force. Assault Marines are effective with 2x Flamers, but we'll add a Meltabomb just in case we need it. The Eviscerator is too expensive on a 1A model. We're also going to give the Company Master a Jump Pack, Relic Blade, and Foe Smiter, which gives the ASM unit some real power. That's all your fast manuever units, total cost 435pts. We'll leave each squad at minimum size for now.

Next, Deathwing:

- Terminator Squads, having Deepstrike, are our best option to hold distant objectives and score Linebreaker. We'll give them each a Chainfist and an Assault Cannon.
- The Interrogator Chaplain is a CC force multiplier. The better the unit, the more useful he is. Ideally we'd have a TH/SS squad for him. Anyway, don't forget he needs Terminator Armor.

After upgrades, Deathwing costs 590pts. Ouch! Sadly we busted our limit by 55pts. So at this point, what need to be done is start prioritizing what's least important and cut it. Foe Smiter? Gone. Ravenwing Combi-Grav? Gone. ML2 Librarian? Reduced to ML1. ASM Melta Bomb? Gone.

That's pretty much the process. You can do something completely different, or not, but always consider the role the unit serves. That's the important thing.

I own 1 Razorback, but it was painted and glued when I bought it with a Heavy Bolter on it (he didn't send me the other weapon anyways). at 40$ I can feasibly get 2 more Razorbacks this month, maybe 4 more depending on my month end paycheck.

As for the Dv Squad- I only have the DV Starter Box Tac Squads, which came with plasma cannons. I guess I could buy a new Dev Squad, but that may have to come later- I did mean for the plasma cannon crew to stay in the back and provide fire support with the Librarian.

So you are suggesting putting the Plasma cannon guys, one each, back in the Tac Squad? (and dropping the plasma pistol- which I want to, but I don't have any bits- I literally started with 2 DV box sets, and an extra 2 DV DA Tac squads.)

How would I get the Librarian on a bike? They don't sell those Models that I saw?

Land Speeder hasn't come yet- It is painted and glued, but he said the weapons can be swapped and said he is including them all.

Assault Squad isn't off Spru yet- Will for sure drop Excavator. Sarge will get Meltabomb

Bikes are glued from DV set. I have no bits for the Grav Guns (those go where? on the bikes or in the marines hands?)

Termi Squad each has 1x assault can and 1x chainfist already, unless you mean each model?

The Interregator Chaplain was in Termi Armor above. I should re-upgrade a power fist for him, right?

I thought this was the loins blade?! What am I missing? I have the Demi Company and 2 (3 if you include the librarian as inner circle) Aux formations.

The models I own/coming in:
(Anything "DV" has NO BITS and is equipped with what it came with. The models are also Not like normal out of the box regular guys- they are molded differently and need to be converted for any weapon swaps)
2x Full DV Sets
2x DV Tac Squads
1x Land Speeder (all bits should be included)
1x scout squad Glued w/ snipers no bits (in mail)
1x Razorback glued painted with heavy bolter no bits.
1x Assault Squad (new on spru all bits included.
1x Belial nib. on order at store- I may see if the guy will let me cancel Im not sure if I like Belial or not.
1x DA Upgrade Pack (to give my assault guys DA shoulder pads)

I realistically have a budget of about 120$ (Important to note 40$ of that will come from trading in MTG to the shop at 65%, so at least 40$ needs to be spent there- which I mostly just buy paint since its the same price everywhere) this month. I had to buy paints (like 20) and hobby supplies already this month as well. I'd hate to say it, but I may need a slight amount of hand holding here- My local shops do not allow proxying for casual games (what a joke- like I have to buy new models just to see if I like them) so the models need to reflect the army list to a T, or at least like 99%. With that budget, what are you suggesting I pick up?

I agree with DAaddict about everything in your army needing a role. Right now, the most glaring weakness in your army is the Tac Squads. They're not useless, but they can't do much but hold objectives and bang on light infantry with their bolters. They're also slow and vulnerable.

A quick fix that doesn't involve spending any money would be to shift your plasma cannons back to the Tac Squads. They're still slow and vulnerable, but at least it would give them reach. That only leaves 1 PC for your Dev squad, but just because you can have 4 heavies in the squad doesn't mean you have to. That would leave your Librarian without an obvious squad to buff, but it would mean you could drop the Librarian if you wanted to shift points elsewhere. Or, as a compromise solution, put two PCs in Tac Squads and have 2 in your Dev Squad. That'd give the Librarian a squad to buff and leave you some ablative guys in the Dev Squad. The Tac Squad lacking a heavy weapon can be an objective-grabber you can afford to move every turn.

You can just use a regular bolter-toting Marine for sergeants. If you don't upgrade for a veteran sergeant, it scarcely matters which one it is anyway. You could just put a little dot of paint on the base to help you keep track, and when you have more advantageous sergeants, you can paint over the dot, or just ignore it if it's unobtrusive enough.

To contrast, here's how I generally run a Tac Squad:

Sergeant with combi-melta or grav pistol, 9 marines, one with meltagun or grav gun, one with multi-melta or grav cannon, Rhino wt dozer blade

The weapon loadout lets the Tac Squad fulfill useful battlefield roles, the Rhino gives them protection and mobility (and if it survives long enough, can claim objectives or you can play LOS-blocking shenanigans with it). I'm always going to combat-squad because there's almost no reason not to. That lets the sergeant's weapon and the special focus on one target and the heavy shoot at another. I like combi-melta/melta/grav cannon, because everything can shoot at full BS after moving, and there's almost always going to be a good target for everything, but the MM can be effective too, as it's a good area-denier, particularly from out of a Rhino's top hatch.

Mind you, in my group we play with a 40% minimum Troops house rule, so I tend to wind up using bigger Tac Squads than the unrestricted meta would probably favor. That said, combi melta/melta or combi grav/grav in a Rhino or Drop Pod would be infinitely better than plasma pistol on foot.

As for the Assault Squad, 2 flamers is good, drop the eviscerator. You might spring for a Veteran Sergeant with a power axe, but if you need to squeeze out points, you can live without it.. This also suggests an HQ-juggle. A Chaplain with a jump pack would go very well with this squad. I know you're using the DV Company Master, which is a sweet mini and stands in very well for Azrael, but again, on foot he's not going to accomplish much. Or, as suggested, a Company Master with a jump pack and perhaps some cool upgrades (coughMaceOfRedemptioncough), but you don't have a mini for it at this time. Worth putting on your list.

For a Company Master, you might be well advised to use a robed body from the DA Company Vet box with strategic magnets so you can swap out arms, backpack, maybe even head. Again, for your list of things to buy.

Anyway, I'd say first priority of purchase would be transports. Specifically Razorbacks, as suggested. I don't know if the current kit allows you to build the one with the lascannon and twin-linked plasma gun, but I think that's the variant currently favored in the meta. That said, don't glue the turret into the turret ring, and don't glue that top plate onto the vehicle. Gravity will hold those things in place well enough, and it'll let you swap them into Rhinos as you see fit. Later on, if you want Whirlwinds, all you'll have to do is bitz-order the turrets from eBay. Also don't glue things into the hatch openings, so you can swap out cupolas. Once you have them, right out of the gate you can use Rhinos as bunkers for your Tac/Dev Squads, or run them around claiming objectives and LOS blocking, or use Razorbacks to increase your firepower and claim objectives. You can worry about upgrading your squads' armaments later.

Talented amateur tip - glue the two Rhino top hatch bitz to each other to make them one piece. Stays in place better, less apt to lose them.

For the Ravenwing, grav guns would be in the bikers' hands, just like the plasma guns. Plasma is okay for the bikers, but grav or melta would be better (though the speeder and an Attack Bike can do your melta duty for you). Use a hobby knife to cut the plasma guns off the DV bike marines and glue grav guns in their place.

Also, you're correct, GW does not sell a bike-Librarian. You'd have to convert one. There is a robed biker body available in the Ravenwing Bike Squadron kit and in the Ravenwing Knights kit. Either would be a good place to start.

Getting the bitz we're suggesting does not have to entail buying whole new box sets. There's shops on eBay that sell individual bitz. Figure out what you need for what you want to do, and purchase them all at once from the same seller. Usually you can get them all shipped together and save shipping costs this way. Way cheaper than buying a whole Tac Squad box set just to get one grav gun (which I think is the only kit that has them now)

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
I agree with DAaddict about everything in your army needing a role. Right now, the most glaring weakness in your army is the Tac Squads. They're not useless, but they can't do much but hold objectives and bang on light infantry with their bolters. They're also slow and vulnerable.

A quick fix that doesn't involve spending any money would be to shift your plasma cannons back to the Tac Squads. They're still slow and vulnerable, but at least it would give them reach. That only leaves 1 PC for your Dev squad, but just because you can have 4 heavies in the squad doesn't mean you have to. That would leave your Librarian without an obvious squad to buff, but it would mean you could drop the Librarian if you wanted to shift points elsewhere. Or, as a compromise solution, put two PCs in Tac Squads and have 2 in your Dev Squad. That'd give the Librarian a squad to buff and leave you some ablative guys in the Dev Squad. The Tac Squad lacking a heavy weapon can be an objective-grabber you can afford to move every turn.

You can just use a regular bolter-toting Marine for sergeants. If you don't upgrade for a veteran sergeant, it scarcely matters which one it is anyway. You could just put a little dot of paint on the base to help you keep track, and when you have more advantageous sergeants, you can paint over the dot, or just ignore it if it's unobtrusive enough.

To contrast, here's how I generally run a Tac Squad:

Sergeant with combi-melta or grav pistol, 9 marines, one with meltagun or grav gun, one with multi-melta or grav cannon, Rhino wt dozer blade

The weapon loadout lets the Tac Squad fulfill useful battlefield roles, the Rhino gives them protection and mobility (and if it survives long enough, can claim objectives or you can play LOS-blocking shenanigans with it). I'm always going to combat-squad because there's almost no reason not to. That lets the sergeant's weapon and the special focus on one target and the heavy shoot at another. I like combi-melta/melta/grav cannon, because everything can shoot at full BS after moving, and there's almost always going to be a good target for everything, but the MM can be effective too, as it's a good area-denier, particularly from out of a Rhino's top hatch.

Mind you, in my group we play with a 40% minimum Troops house rule, so I tend to wind up using bigger Tac Squads than the unrestricted meta would probably favor. That said, combi melta/melta or combi grav/grav in a Rhino or Drop Pod would be infinitely better than plasma pistol on foot.

As for the Assault Squad, 2 flamers is good, drop the eviscerator. You might spring for a Veteran Sergeant with a power axe, but if you need to squeeze out points, you can live without it.. This also suggests an HQ-juggle. A Chaplain with a jump pack would go very well with this squad. I know you're using the DV Company Master, which is a sweet mini and stands in very well for Azrael, but again, on foot he's not going to accomplish much. Or, as suggested, a Company Master with a jump pack and perhaps some cool upgrades (coughMaceOfRedemptioncough), but you don't have a mini for it at this time. Worth putting on your list.

For a Company Master, you might be well advised to use a robed body from the DA Company Vet box with strategic magnets so you can swap out arms, backpack, maybe even head. Again, for your list of things to buy.

Anyway, I'd say first priority of purchase would be transports. Specifically Razorbacks, as suggested. I don't know if the current kit allows you to build the one with the lascannon and twin-linked plasma gun, but I think that's the variant currently favored in the meta. That said, don't glue the turret into the turret ring, and don't glue that top plate onto the vehicle. Gravity will hold those things in place well enough, and it'll let you swap them into Rhinos as you see fit. Later on, if you want Whirlwinds, all you'll have to do is bitz-order the turrets from eBay. Also don't glue things into the hatch openings, so you can swap out cupolas. Once you have them, right out of the gate you can use Rhinos as bunkers for your Tac/Dev Squads, or run them around claiming objectives and LOS blocking, or use Razorbacks to increase your firepower and claim objectives. You can worry about upgrading your squads' armaments later.

Talented amateur tip - glue the two Rhino top hatch bitz to each other to make them one piece. Stays in place better, less apt to lose them.

For the Ravenwing, grav guns would be in the bikers' hands, just like the plasma guns. Plasma is okay for the bikers, but grav or melta would be better (though the speeder and an Attack Bike can do your melta duty for you). Use a hobby knife to cut the plasma guns off the DV bike marines and glue grav guns in their place.

Also, you're correct, GW does not sell a bike-Librarian. You'd have to convert one. There is a robed biker body available in the Ravenwing Bike Squadron kit and in the Ravenwing Knights kit. Either would be a good place to start.

Getting the bitz we're suggesting does not have to entail buying whole new box sets. There's shops on eBay that sell individual bitz. Figure out what you need for what you want to do, and purchase them all at once from the same seller. Usually you can get them all shipped together and save shipping costs this way. Way cheaper than buying a whole Tac Squad box set just to get one grav gun (which I think is the only kit that has them now)

Have not read your post yet- at work. Wanted to just comment that I might be able to pick up a dev squad with 4x las and 4x missle from a friend for cheap, maybe. Which would allow moving the PCs back to my tac squads. He also has a bun ch of bits hell sell me, so hopefully there are bolters and bolt pistols I can swap out the plasma pistols for. (Ill read your comment on my next break

Okay- read your feedback. Thanks by the way.


So- A revised List would look something like this:

-Battle Demi Company-
*DV Company Master [130]
Combi-Plasma
Power sword
Jump Pack

*5 Man DV Tac Squad [90]
plasma Cannon
MelatBombs
(already glued/painted as is) Dedicated Razorback [75]
Twinlinked Las Cannon
Storm Bolter

*5 Man DV Tac Squad [90]
plasma cannon
Meltabombs
(on order at lgs)Dedicated Razorback [70]
Lascannon w/ TL Plasma Gun

*5 Man DV Tac Squad [90]
plasma cannon
MeltaBombs

*Assault Squad [100]
Jump Packs x5
Flamer x2
MeltaBombs

Devastator Squad [130]
Missile Launcher x4

-Ravenwing Attack Squadron-

3 Man Ravenwing Bike Squad [75]

Land Speeder [50]

-Deathwing Redemption Force-

Interrogator Chaplain [150??? HELP!!!]
Terminator Armor + Storm Bolter
Powerfist
(How do I give this model a Storm Bolter?!)

DV 5 Man Terminator Squad [225]
Assault Cannon
Chain Fist

DV 5 Man Terminator Squad [225]
Assault Cannon
Chain Fist

Total 1500

The Razorbacks can switch between any of the squads. I chose to cut back on the number of bikes, remove the librarian, and switch the Devs to Missile Launchers. I may remove the ravenwing force completely, but its not many points now, only 125. Perhaps I will in the future for more tanks. I have a Belial model, and if need be I can switch him for the chaplain (deepstrike homer on belial) if my ravenwing does go bye bye.

Suggestions?

I may try a Lion;s Blade in the future- the free tanks seem like a good thing. I'll need a ton more models to run all the free tanks though.

For the libby on bike the guy in the vengeance box that has a robe on a bike makes an awesome librarian (even other space marine chapters use this guy as a libby) if you really care maybe glue a book to the front of his bike or something, but I think he's great as-is. Maybe swap his chainsword for a force-axe or sword if you really want.

Thats a good idea. Thank you.

If you use Rhinos instead of Razorbacks, you won't have to gut Ravenwing's weapons. Here's an example.

Demi-Company:
- Company Master w/Jump Pack, Power Sword (120pts)
- Tac Marines w/Rhino (105pts + 20pts in upgrades)
- Tac Marines w/Rhino (105pts + 20pts in upgrades)
- Tac Marines w/Rhino (105pts + 20pts in upgrades)
- Assault Squad w/2x Flamers, Meltabomb, Jump Packs (100pts)
- Devastator Squad w/4x ML (130pts)

Ravenwing :
- Bike Squad w/ 2x Meltaguns, Combi-Melta, Meltabomb (110pts)
- Land Speeder w/2x Heavy Flamer (55pts)

Deathwing :
- Interrogator Chaplain w/TDA, Chainfist (155pts)
- Terminators w/Assault Cannon, Chainfist (225pts)
- Terminators w/Assault Cannon, Chainfist (225pts)

That leaves 60pts to buy weapons for the Tac Squads, either Melta/Combi-Melta, or Plasma Cannon/Meltabombs. Try using both and see what you prefer. You can make future changes based on what works for you or doesn't. Good luck!

Yoyoyo wrote:
If you use Rhinos instead of Razorbacks, you won't have to gut Ravenwing's weapons. Here's an example.

Demi-Company:
- Company Master w/Jump Pack, Power Sword (120pts)
- Tac Marines w/Rhino (105pts + 20pts in upgrades)
- Tac Marines w/Rhino (105pts + 20pts in upgrades)
- Tac Marines w/Rhino (105pts + 20pts in upgrades)
- Assault Squad w/2x Flamers, Meltabomb, Jump Packs (100pts)
- Devastator Squad w/4x ML (130pts)

Ravenwing :
- Bike Squad w/ 2x Meltaguns, Combi-Melta, Meltabomb (110pts)
- Land Speeder w/2x Heavy Flamer (55pts)

Deathwing :
- Interrogator Chaplain w/TDA, Chainfist (155pts)
- Terminators w/Assault Cannon, Chainfist (225pts)
- Terminators w/Assault Cannon, Chainfist (225pts)

That leaves 60pts to buy weapons for the Tac Squads, either Melta/Combi-Melta, or Plasma Cannon/Meltabombs. Try using both and see what you prefer. You can make future changes based on what works for you or doesn't. Good luck!

this is a good poast

Yoyoyo wrote:
If you use Rhinos instead of Razorbacks, you won't have to gut Ravenwing's weapons. Here's an example.

I will for sure model the tanks to I can switch them between rhino and razorback, but I already own one (paid 15$) glued and painted with the turret on- so I cant convert that one. Once my next model comes in, I will have 2 rhino/backs. If I can get 10 (3x tac, 1x dev, 1x assault- am I missing a squad? codex is at home) of them Ill just run a lion's blade 2x demi company with free dedicated transports paying the 20pt upgrade to turn the heavy bolter turrets into something else (I might grab a few drop pods instead of all 10 tanks too)

The rasorbacks provide lascannons. The purpose of the RW is to accurately deliver the DW. 3 double jinking bikes should do the trick. So your choice it 3 LC Tl Plas or 2 plasmas and 3 more bikes.... I know what I would chose... Correct me if I am wrong but you are basing this on two Dark Vengence sets, If not, don't invest in terminators. They look cool but IMO they underperform. If you are not tied down lose the termies and expand your RW.

DAaddict wrote:
The rasorbacks provide lascannons. The purpose of the RW is to accurately deliver the DW. 3 double jinking bikes should do the trick. So your choice it 3 LC Tl Plas or 2 plasmas and 3 more bikes.... I know what I would chose... Correct me if I am wrong but you are basing this on two Dark Vengence sets, If not, don't invest in terminators. They look cool but IMO they underperform. If you are not tied down lose the termies and expand your RW.

I do not have to have the termies in there. In what way t the termies under perform? I thought they were for CC? I have a total of 6 bikes from 2 Dark Vengeance sets.

As for the tanks, I was going to experiment between rhino and razorback w/ las and TL pasmagun.

Eventually I am likely going to try to run the Lion's blade battle company (but i need the models) for the free tanks/pods.

If you have a functional list, experimenting with the units you have is the best thing you can do right now.

You don't need to bring the most powerful army to the table to enjoy 40k. Stay away from the arms race. Keep some of your money for a rainy day and to order pizza with friends while you're playing.

Dakka is great for competitive theorycrafting but don't lose the focus on having fun.

First off don't use plasma pistols, keep the sergeants with bolters. The plasma cannons generally aren't worth it too as they can overheat and kill your expensive marines. Missile launchers, heavy bolters and lascannons are good picks.

You've got DV models which means their weapons cannot be changed in any way, shape, or form without cutting off their hand and replacing it, which I don't recommend. Just make the adjustments clear to your opponent before the game as he should be ok and understand.

I do not have to have the termies in there. In what way t the termies under perform? I thought they were for CC? I have a total of 6 bikes from 2 Dark Vengeance sets.

Think about it you have 600 points eaten up in 11 models. If you never role 1s you may be good but termies at least for me are notorious for rollong 1s in batches. It is not pretty when you roll 3 1s for one flamer bath.

Another way to look at it is 105 buys you 3 RW bikes with 2 plasma and 85 will buy you 3 with 2 flamers so without force organiation. you could have 3 groups of each for 600 points. So compare

8 S6 and 18 S4 shots to 18 to 36 TL S4 shots or subbing out 1\2 S4 shots for each 1\2 S7 shtos for 6 of them and anther 6 that you can sub for upto 6 S4 templates.

Another simplistic comparison is 4 tacsquads 5man with heavy bolters in a HB rasorback gives you 24 S5 shots and 16\32 S4 shots versus the 8 S6 and 18 S4 shots your termies will provide.

DAaddict wrote:

I do not have to have the termies in there. In what way t the termies under perform? I thought they were for CC? I have a total of 6 bikes from 2 Dark Vengeance sets.

Think about it you have 600 points eaten up in 11 models. If you never role 1s you may be good but termies at least for me are notorious for rollong 1s in batches. It is not pretty when you roll 3 1s for one flamer bath.

Another way to look at it is 105 buys you 3 RW bikes with 2 plasma and 85 will buy you 3 with 2 flamers so without force organiation. you could have 3 groups of each for 600 points. So compare

8 S6 and 18 S4 shots to 18 to 36 TL S4 shots or subbing out 1\2 S4 shots for each 1\2 S7 shtos for 6 of them and anther 6 that you can sub for upto 6 S4 templates.

Another simplistic comparison is 4 tacsquads 5man with heavy bolters in a HB rasorback gives you 24 S5 shots and 16\32 S4 shots versus the 8 S6 and 18 S4 shots your termies will provide.

I definately see this, I have also picked up on the offset of cost to power ratio watching batreps.

Why would you bot recoment cutting the plasma pistols off? I am likely going to use tax marines with differeent color helmets as my squad sargeants.

@yoyoyo Yes i beilive i am just going to get the best-ish list with what i have and start fielding it this week. (I need to model my new razorback pretty quick here.)

The DV plasma pistols are just a pinned hand so it is an easy switch off a spare bolt pistol hand but if you don't feel comfortable switching just let your opponent know it is NOT a plasma pistol. I have found most opponents are willing unless you have 2 or 3 figures with the wrong weapon and you say this one has it but the other two do not.

DAaddict wrote:
The DV plasma pistols are just a pinned hand so it is an easy switch off a spare bolt pistol hand but if you don't feel comfortable switching just let your opponent know it is NOT a plasma pistol. I have found most opponents are willing unless you have 2 or 3 figures with the wrong weapon and you say this one has it but the other two do not.

Ive cut the hands off already, but I forgot- should I be putting a bolt pistol, or bolter on the Sargant 1 model. The codex sais the marines have both, but idk what I should model him with?

JuicyPVP wrote:

Ive cut the hands off already, but I forgot- should I be putting a bolt pistol, or bolter on the Sargant 1 model. The codex sais the marines have both, but idk what I should model him with?

for tactical Marines either is fine. Bolt pistol and chainsword for +1 Attack, Boltgun or combi-weapon and bolt pistol for moar dakka.

I generally run combi-meltas. There's an argument to be made for combi-grav as well. One attack more or less is not going to make a lot of difference to a Tac Squad's chances in assault, but having 2 melta shots instead of 1 can make a huge difference on those critical turns.

Also, combi-melta bitz are cheaper to get than combi-grav. You can get whole combi-meltas from the Sternguard kit, but when GW introduced grav, they started making combi-weapons a 2-bit thing, and the kits have 1 each of the melta, flamer, plasma, and grav part, but only 1 of the bolter part, so those are in higher demand.

Painting the helmets different colors works. I do different color face plates. Though, I've started using robed DAs for all my sergeants. Gives a little more First Company flair.

As for Terminators, they're not durable enough for the points you sink into them, and they don't do enough damage with their shooting to justify their points. Against the right kinds of targets, they can really wreck in assault, but having them survive to get there is a trick.

It'll help a little if you field a squad as a Terminator Command Squad - lets you take an Apothecary for FNP. You should be able to pick up a Terminator Apothecary on eBay for a reasonable price.

So- Ive changed this list up a ton. Played an objective game with the list below last night. Did very well. (Like 7 to 1 end of turn 3 when he quit well) I really like the Plasma cannon in each tac squad, but may switch to missile launchers. not sure. It would save me 30 pts. I know the list is more than 1500- its like 1515, but that's because my opponent switched to 1500 from 2k when we originally agreed on 2k. So he let me just take the 65pt librarian and get a 15 pt advantage (I literally didn't make a single warp charge test so it was useless anyways) because he changed last minute. Im not sure what else I would change, but dropping the plasma cannons would allow for the librarian, not that im sure I like the librarian...

++Core (1390 pts) ++

Battle Demi Company (720pts)
····Assault Squad (95pts) [4x Assault Space Marine (56pts), Bolt pistol, Chainsword, 2x Flamer, Frag and Krak Grenades, Jump Packs]
········Assault Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword]
········Company Master (140pts) [Iron Halo]
········Power Armour. [Combi-Flamer , Frag and Krak Grenades, Infantry, Relic Blade, Jump Pack]

····Devastator Squad (170pts) [Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag and Krak Grenades, 4x Missile Launcher with Flakk , Power Armor, 4x Space Marine ]
········Sergeant [Boltgun, Chainsword, Signum]
········Rhino [Smoke Launchers and Searchlight, Storm Bolter]

····Tactical Squad (105pts) [Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag and Krak Grenades, Plasma Cannon, Power Armor, 4x Tactical Marine]
········Sergeant [Boltgun, Chainsword]
········Razorback [Smoke Launchers and Searchlight, Twin Linked LAS CANNON]

····Tactical Squad (105pts) [Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag and Krak Grenades, Plasma Cannon, Power Armor, 4x Tactical Marine]
········Sergeant [Boltgun, Chainsword]
········Razorback [Smoke Launchers and Searchlight, Twin Linked Las Cannon]

····Tactical Squad (105pts) [Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag and Krak Grenades, Plasma Cannon, Power Armor, 4x Tactical Marine]
········Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads, Gets Hot, Grim Resolve
········Sergeant [Boltgun, Chainsword]
········Razorback [Smoke Launchers and Searchlight, Twin Linked Las Cannon]

Battle Demi Company (670pts)
····Assault Squad [4x Assault Space Marine, Bolt pistol, Chainsword, 2x Flamer, Frag and Krak Grenades, Jump Packs]
········Assault Space Marine Sergeant (14pts) [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword]
········Chaplain (105pts) [Bolt Pistol, Crozius Arcanum, Frag and Krak Grenades, Infantry, Rosarius, Jump Pack]

····Devastator Squad (170pts) [Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag and Krak Grenades, 4x Missile Launcher with Flakk, Power Armor, 4x Space Marine]
········Sergeant [Boltgun, Chainsword, Signum]
········Rhino [Smoke Launchers and Searchlight, Storm Bolter]

····Tactical Squad (100pts) [Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag and Krak Grenades, Plasma Cannon, Power Armor, 4x Tactical Marine]
········Sergeant [Boltgun, Chainsword]
········Drop Pod [Deathwind Launcher]

····Tactical Squad (100pts) [Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag and Krak Grenades, Plasma Cannon, Power Armor, 4x Tactical Marine]
········Sergeant [Boltgun, Chainsword]
········Drop Pod [Deathwind Launcher]

····Tactical Squad (100pts) [Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag and Krak Grenades, Plasma Cannon, Power Armor, 4x Tactical Marine]
········Sergeant [Boltgun, Chainsword]
········Drop Pod [Deathwind Launcher]

+ Auxillary (60pts) +

10th Company Support (60pts)
····Scout Squad (60pts) [Bolt pistol, Frag and Krak Grenades, 4x Scouts, 4x Sniper Rifle]
········Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Squads, Grim Resolve, Infiltrate, Move Through Cover, Scout
········Scout Sergeant [Chainsword, Sniper Rifle]

+ Auxillary (65pts) +

Inner Circle (65pts)
····Librarian (65pts)

++Total (1515 pts)++

Thoughts?

It seems like a pretty solid list. My one criticism is that it seems like it'd be apt to struggle against vehicles with a high AV value. You might get lucky with a lascannon, but it's hard to count on that. My suggestion would be to switch up your pod-delivered Tac Squads to carry meltaguns, and have the sergeants carry combi-meltas. That'd give you a fairly reliable means of destroying high-AV vehicles.

Other than that, you could save a few points by fielding the Scouts with bolters. I've never been impressed with sniper Scouts. I'd say the best use of the Librarian in this list would be in your backfield with your Devs, Divination discipline, casting Prescience and (if you get it) Perfect Timing on your Devs. You'd probably get them off a little more reliably if you could make him ML 2. You could free up some points dropping the Deathwind launchers from your pods. They seem impressive on paper, but in practice I've never found them to be all that effective.

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
It seems like a pretty solid list. My one criticism is that it seems like it'd be apt to struggle against vehicles with a high AV value. You might get lucky with a lascannon, but it's hard to count on that. My suggestion would be to switch up your pod-delivered Tac Squads to carry meltaguns, and have the sergeants carry combi-meltas. That'd give you a fairly reliable means of destroying high-AV vehicles.

Other than that, you could save a few points by fielding the Scouts with bolters. I've never been impressed with sniper Scouts. I'd say the best use of the Librarian in this list would be in your backfield with your Devs, Divination discipline, casting Prescience and (if you get it) Perfect Timing on your Devs. You'd probably get them off a little more reliably if you could make him ML 2. You could free up some points dropping the Deathwind launchers from your pods. They seem impressive on paper, but in practice I've never found them to be all that effective.

Do the 2 squads of missile launchers not help enough for the High AV Vehicles? I tried to make sure there was enough High Strength weapons for anti Armor. I am also considering switching the plasma cannons in my tac squads with missile launchers. Krak missiles are strength 9 aren't they? Why would Melta guns be better for the drop guys? Ive never really used meltas before. The deathwind launchers are only for mob control, like boyz, cultists, and other 4-5+ armor save guys. I was just trying them out. I might keep 1 in the instance my opponent has a horde, but I definitely did not use 1 of my pods launchers, and then another 1 I only used one time, but the third pod's launcher shot 3 turns in a row killing guys every turn though because I dropped it in between 2 of his units.

The Librarian was an ad in at the end. I was using interomancy (the DA specific power school). I failed all my powers so idk if the libby is worth it or not. I feel like ir rather upgrade someone's weapon, or something else.

Im finding I do not really like the assault marines. They cannot assault out of deep strike, so I basically just used them to grab objectives I needed with objective secured. If my opponent didn't quit he surely would have killed them in assault against them with deamons/termis but Ive only used them in 2 games. maybe they will be better elsewhere.

It costs 1 pt per sniper and allows me to park them in the back on a building and shoot 3/4 of the battlefield with them. The precision shots are nice. I took out his 4 flamers in 2 separate squads with them.

Thoughts?

JuicyPVP wrote:
Do the 2 squads of missile launchers not help enough for the High AV Vehicles? I tried to make sure there was enough High Strength weapons for anti Armor. I am also considering switching the plasma cannons in my tac squads with missile launchers. Krak missiles are strength 9 aren't they? Why would Melta guns be better for the drop guys? Ive never really used meltas before.

Kraks are S8, meaning a 6 to glance a Land Raider or equivalent. Meltas are also strength 8, making them look similar on paper, except for two (quite, quite common) scenarios:
-Instead of a vehicle, you're wanting to take out a Monstrous Creature, like a Riptide. The AP1 of Meltas ensures that four out of six wounds are unsaved (due to a 5++ in this case), whilst a Krak bounces off five times out of six (due to the 2+ armour save).
-Against a vehicle, a Krak will roll an average penetration of 11.5. Under half range, a Melta scores an average of 15, which is obviously better. Add in the fact that the AP1 increases the chance of one-shotting the vehicle with an "Explodes" result, and the only downside is range.

Admittedly, range is a big factor, hence the suggestion for drop pods.

My personal opinion on your list would be: Swap the plasma cannons for plasma guns - more mobile, fits in with the range & firing mode of the rest of the squad, and you've already got the models because of DV.

DAaddict wrote:
The rasorbacks provide lascannons. The purpose of the RW is to accurately deliver the DW. 3 double jinking bikes should do the trick. So your choice it 3 LC Tl Plas or 2 plasmas and 3 more bikes.... I know what I would chose... Correct me if I am wrong but you are basing this on two Dark Vengence sets, If not, don't invest in terminators. They look cool but IMO they underperform. If you are not tied down lose the termies and expand your RW.

I love terminators for my space marines!!!!! I have dark knights, assault terminators, normal terminators, grey knights terminators, and wolf guard terminators in my army!!! I generally always use at least one of them per game, as most terminators are very versatile (excluding normal and assault terminators, but even they are great for soaking up damage!)

Also i rccomend lascannons for the devastators for longer range andti-tank!

JuicyPVP wrote:


Do the 2 squads of missile launchers not help enough for the High AV Vehicles? I tried to make sure there was enough High Strength weapons for anti Armor. I am also considering switching the plasma cannons in my tac squads with missile launchers. Krak missiles are strength 9 aren't they? Why would Melta guns be better for the drop guys? Ive never really used meltas before. The deathwind launchers are only for mob control, like boyz, cultists, and other 4-5+ armor save guys. I was just trying them out. I might keep 1 in the instance my opponent has a horde, but I definitely did not use 1 of my pods launchers, and then another 1 I only used one time, but the third pod's launcher shot 3 turns in a row killing guys every turn though because I dropped it in between 2 of his units.

The Librarian was an ad in at the end. I was using interomancy (the DA specific power school). I failed all my powers so idk if the libby is worth it or not. I feel like ir rather upgrade someone's weapon, or something else.

Im finding I do not really like the assault marines. They cannot assault out of deep strike, so I basically just used them to grab objectives I needed with objective secured. If my opponent didn't quit he surely would have killed them in assault against them with deamons/termis but Ive only used them in 2 games. maybe they will be better elsewhere.

It costs 1 pt per sniper and allows me to park them in the back on a building and shoot 3/4 of the battlefield with them. The precision shots are nice. I took out his 4 flamers in 2 separate squads with them.

Thoughts?

As pointed out, krak missiles are S8, making them all-but-useless against AV14, and AV13 is hard for them to deal with as well. Meltaguns have that handy Armorbane within 6", and drop pods give you a means to deliver them pretty reliably.

I'd argue you have enough mob control between all the small blasts you're packing, and the Assault Squad's flamers. As with anything else, Deathwind Launchers will occasionally do very well, but not consistently enough to make them worth the cost of the upgrade. If you think about it, you only got an average of about 1 shot per pod. You could always keep 1 pod with a DW launcher for those occasions when an opponent gives you a really good place to put it, but the more you use them, I think the more you'll agree with me that they're not worth it.

It doesn't help that you didn't get any of your powers to go off, but Interromancy is a sub-par discipline. It's more or less just a weaker version of Telepathy. I'll take it when I'm trying to be nice, but if I think I'm facing a challenging game, I'll go with Telepathy or Divination.

Just because you can deep strike with Assault Marines doesn't mean it's the best way to use them. They're more about delivering the flame templates, getting to trouble spots quickly, and delivering your Company Master and Chaplain into combat. By themselves, they're kind of underwhelming in combat - it's best to forget they have the word "assault" in their name and think of them more as a rapid reaction unit. However, with a Chaplain in the squad, they can aspire to adequacy as an assault unit.

I actually didn't think sniper rifles had all those rules anymore. Maybe I've been underutilizing their abilities.

When ever i see these post, i often wonder if the reason my army lists never get responses is because no one is on, or there is not much to comment on them :(

That aside, this looks pretty good, One thing with this list is its mostly green wing which is really good.

Also Quanar is on point with his words of truth, more mobility is much better.