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I love my bloodcrushers that i customized to look awesome, and am looking for ways to improve inv saves.

Anything that i can take, psychic powers, wargear, allies etc?

Not in KDK, but you can ally in csm and daemons that can. IA13 has a legacy of ruin that boosts khorne invulnerable saves by 1 and psykers have all kinds of invulnerable saves or buffs to invulnerable saves. Daemons have the grimoire which buffs it by 2 (potentially)

Daemon and CSM allies. One, take a Sorceror and bike and roll him on sanctic for Samctuary, or Malefic for cursed earth. Or, have daemon allies and use Grimoire. Or, there is an infernal relic for CSM vehicles that gives an 8" bubble of +1 invuln for Daemons of khorne

A friend of mine was telling me about that infernal relic thing. He said it would be really good on a Daemon Knight of Khorne. I looked at the entry for the Knight (the experimental one) and didn't see anything about it. Is it only on the official version? Maybe I'm late to the party, but has the official non-experimental ruleset for the FW Chaos Knights been released yet?

It's in Imperial Armour 13: warmachines of the lost and the damned. Though I'm not sure whether a dedicated knight can take them or not. That depends on whether or not you count it as a daemon engine, and since no such thing exists from a rules perspective, it's up to you whether to count it as such.

Ok. So sanctuary and cursed earth. How do i get grimoire?


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So, i just checked sanctuary, it also gives all daemons dangerous terrain.
Does this count on daemons of khorne?

Hawehu@hotmail.com wrote:
Ok. So sanctuary and cursed earth. How do i get grimoire?


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So, i just checked sanctuary, it also gives all daemons dangerous terrain.
Does this count on daemons of khorne?

Daemons of Khorne also have the Daemon rule so yes it counts daemons of khorne

Hawehu@hotmail.com wrote:
Ok. So sanctuary and cursed earth. How do i get grimoire?


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So, i just checked sanctuary, it also gives all daemons dangerous terrain.
Does this count on daemons of khorne?

Well there's more than that. Divination gives the unit a 4++ which is also better than the 5++ they come with. I don't know about the new daemon powers though, I only have the old book.
If your warlord is from a dameons detachment then you could also benefit from warpstorms if your really really lucky, there is a result that gives +1 to invunerable saves to all daemons.

You also get better saves from other spells, though they're not invunerable. Endurance gives fnp 4+ and eternal warrior, fire shield gives a 4+ cover save and telepathy gives you shrouded.

There are 2 approaches to buffing your invulnerable saves.

The Army Wide approach is:

Demonic Incursion detachment (e.g. Murderhorde + Karnak)
- Gives +1/-1 to warp storm table (requires 8 khorne units e.g. 24 blood crushers but flesh hounds are more competative)

Fateweaver
- Warlord trait gives rerolls on warp storm
- Staff of tomorrow gives 1 reroll per player turn.

Normally you need 10 to bump invuln saves by 1 but with the incursion 9-11 will do (9/36 = 25% chance).
If you roll less than 9 then reroll the lowest dice with the staff of tomorrow (or reroll both dice if you want to save the staff for later)

This gives you better than 50% chance to have +1 invuln saves.

Next up Roll fateweavers daemonic malefic powers to try and score Cursed Earth (33% chance) and throw in a few more psykers to make this more reliable.

Hey presto your MSU army has 3++ across the board.

Allright! This is great guys.
Thanks to everyone.
Also, keep coming up with more ways if you can.

I will study these options later and see what works best with what i have.(csm and kdk)


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Since i have only csm and kdk units, i guess it is forewarning and cursed earth then, but do they stack?


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Add some endurance for 4 up fnp.


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Adding shrouded and invisibility.


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I think we covered the psychic powers then.
Is there any other ways in kdk or csm or crimson slaughter or black legion?

Or in any of their formations or dataslates?

Named charachters?

Are you after lower invulns for a particular reason or just overall survivability? Because you can stick 2+ save lords in front of the squad and let them eat all the non-ap2 firepower if that's what's wiping out your units, then look out sir the ap2 onto the juggernauts. The only thing that would get around that is barrage weaponry, which is pretty useless on bloodcrushers and their enormous bases.

*edit* By 2+ save lords, I mean allying in something like a Black Legion Jugger Lord with the 2+ save relic.

Yes that is a good idea as well.

Im not home but thats like 150 pts i think.
Thats without weapons or sigil though.

I guess if thats the use of a lord then no upgrades?
Is it too risky to spend 200pts on a lord and putting him in front?

I really like the idea though, of a character not hiding in a squad, but leading the charge!

I think people have already covered all the best points.

Totally scraping the barrel, but if you add in an arch demagogue of nurgle you can get fnp :p

And yes, improving survivability is the reason I am asking, but i was specifically thinking about inv saves.

Now i am interested in general increasing of survivability too, so i appreciate ideas.

Cursed earth is the best option id say allie in a herald or 2 and you could maybe even get some summoning done

To take the legacy of ruin on a Khorne chaos knight (which yes is generally viewed as fine, but check with your friends of course) you need that knight to be part of a CSM CAD. Just so you know.

If you want to do the grim, that needs to come from a daemons unit (pretty much any herald/LOC/daemon prince except for the Khorne varieties naturally)

I haven't tried KDK but I have no doubt that they would benefit from the legacy of ruin on the knight (though it only has a 12" range and is for models, not units IIRC)

The thing about going whole hog for psychic powers is that they can be very unreliable. Same with the warp storm table. There are ways to increase the reliability (fateweaver, daemonic formations, etc) but these still leave you at best with a coin flip. For psychic powers, you have to roll the power (fails more than you think - try the statistics) and then cast, likely doing a wound to your caster if you throw enough dice to succeed for most powers. If you have a FMC as your caster, that means a grounding check, which could end badly.

I'm not saying not to go down those routes, but if I was you I would put the least amount of points into a daemons allied detachment and a CSM CAD as you could so that you get the grim, the relic and a brick of a knight. Don't worry about cursed earth/forewarning.

Source: daemons are my primary army and dice are fickle. Always better to take the guaranteed thing. Even the grim is rough if you don't use fateweaver. Can't tell you how many times I've failed the 3+, used fateweaver's re-roll....and failed the 3+ again :(