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So, it's been about a year or so since I last really tried doing anything, and I finally got the itch to come back and work on my 40k. I'm setting up my workbench again, and I noticed I had built a lot less of my marines than I remembered. So anyhow, I'm trying to decide how I should build some units. I'll update this from time to time with new scenarios, but for now, I would just like dakkadakka's input on the following:

10 man Honour Squad with power lances VS 5 man Command Squad armed with 5 power lances and storm shields.
(Honour Squad wins. On to the next setup.)

5 man Sternguard squad, armed with 5 stormbolters, Sarge with a stormbolter and power lance vs 5 man Devestator squad armed with 4 heavy bolters, Sarge with stormbolter and power lance.

I'd take honour guard with standard. More attacks, and more survivability against non ap 2.

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
I'd take honour guard with standard. More attacks, and more survivability against non ap 2.

Definitely this. I probably wouldn't bring the Emperor standard, but definitely a chapter standard. I would Swap out the lances for swords and mauls. Maybe a relic blade or two if you don't give the chapter champ a TH.

Dantes_Baals wrote:

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
I'd take honour guard with standard. More attacks, and more survivability against non ap 2.

Definitely this. I probably wouldn't bring the Emperor standard, but definitely a chapter standard. I would Swap out the lances for swords and mauls. Maybe a relic blade or two if you don't give the chapter champ a TH.

Is the standard just too expensive? I too have doubts on it, but I figured it might do some good in a unit that size. As for the Lances...they must stay. The army is modeled after Roman and germania origins, and the pilum was a staple. I also wanted something that just wasnt seen on tabletops much, and figured that an army run on BT tactics would at least put it to good use. That being said, I did consider putting some mauls in, but I just can't find an easy access to them outside of chopping all the crozius from my chaplains, unless you have an alternate? If I don't find my mold for the GW power lance, I might just have to do that.

You could use Grey Knight Halberds for your lances if you want to use easily-accessible GW bitz. Also Grey Knights provide a lot of spiffy bitz for making Honor Guard, IMO. You'd have to get rid of the Stormbolters on their wrists, though.

Technically it says to count halberds as axes when it comes to power weapons, but really these particular weapons are more like glaives than halberds when it comes to their shape which is a green light to call them lances in my book.

I updated the thread with another little musing. For reference, this next scenario is due to the fact that the 2 people I play the most run horde IG and Typhus zombie lot.

5 man Sternguard squad, armed with 5 stormbolters, Sarge with a stormbolter and power lance vs 5 man Devestator squad armed with 4 heavy bolters, Sarge with stormbolter and power lance.

Never take stormbolters on sternguard. IMHO it’s one of the true trap choices in the codex. You make the unit worse by paying points.

Here’s why: You can’t use special ammo through the stormbolters.

So you gain one extra shot in the 12-24” bracket, and the ability to assault after shooting, in exchange for special ammo (and 25 points). I wouldn’t make that trade, even if it was free. Special ammo is just that good.

I like the sternguard bare-bones. I take them for the special ammo, and want to maximize that. I’d also recommend full squads. Bolters, even with special ammo, need mass to work. 5 guys will irritate something, 10 will cripple them.

The only heavy that’s worth taking the bolter away for is a heavy flamer. Your vets want to be in close to rapid fire anyway, and the HF works well against almost everything the ammo works on.

I want to like the HB dev squad. If you are running a formation that requires a dev squad, they are a decent low-cost option. But these days I need to fit a lot of AV fire into my lists, and LC devs are one of my go-to choices. Generally I get all my horde killing done by tac squads, so don’t need to get more from my heavy choices. I think it’s a little more viable for Imperial Fists. Bolter drill is nice, and tank hunter lets it threaten light vehicles fairly well. If you need more anti-horde is you list, I’d suggest something like WWs or TML/HB speeders (or both in the suppression force formation).

Given a pure, unmodified, binary choice of your two options I’d take the Devs. They should get their job done and be reasonably efficient at it. Given the option to tweak the gear choices, the sternguard are a better unit. Just not with stormbolters.

 Nevelon wrote:
Never take stormbolters on sternguard. IMHO it’s one of the true trap choices in the codex. You make the unit worse by paying points.

Here’s why: You can’t use special ammo through the stormbolters.

So you gain one extra shot in the 12-24” bracket, and the ability to assault after shooting, in exchange for special ammo (and 25 points). I wouldn’t make that trade, even if it was free. Special ammo is just that good.

I like the sternguard bare-bones. I take them for the special ammo, and want to maximize that. I’d also recommend full squads. Bolters, even with special ammo, need mass to work. 5 guys will irritate something, 10 will cripple them.

The only heavy that’s worth taking the bolter away for is a heavy flamer. Your vets want to be in close to rapid fire anyway, and the HF works well against almost everything the ammo works on.

I want to like the HB dev squad. If you are running a formation that requires a dev squad, they are a decent low-cost option. But these days I need to fit a lot of AV fire into my lists, and LC devs are one of my go-to choices. Generally I get all my horde killing done by tac squads, so don’t need to get more from my heavy choices. I think it’s a little more viable for Imperial Fists. Bolter drill is nice, and tank hunter lets it threaten light vehicles fairly well. If you need more anti-horde is you list, I’d suggest something like WWs or TML/HB speeders (or both in the suppression force formation).

Given a pure, unmodified, binary choice of your two options I’d take the Devs. They should get their job done and be reasonably efficient at it. Given the option to tweak the gear choices, the sternguard are a better unit. Just not with stormbolters.

I'm well aware that it doesn't work on stormbolters. My meta is oddly enough, insanely relaxed. I've got 1 player that plays IG/ Greenwing DA, 1 that does Nurgle CSM, 1 returning DA Greenwing/eventual Deathwing, and really not much else. There a lot of fringe players, but they don't tend to stay in contact with us and its hard to get matches, but other than a few other randoms that show up, play a game or so, and vanish before the rest of us show up to investigate, we don't have anything really competative. Ironically, there's a little but of everything here, so we have a fun little sandbox, except if I run my tyranids. The only thing we are missing are Tau and Eldar players, but I'm not gonna complain about it.

All this thread is, is about personal opinions on some wacky little units that people might want to see.

The thing is even if you don't care about the special ammo on the Sternguards, the cost of the stormbolters makes it so that it's actually cheaper and much more survivable to take 2 normal tactical marines instead of a single Sternguard with a Stormbolter. Due to how Rapid Fire was changed in 7th edition, they'll be functionally the same at the max range, more effective at close range, and will only lose half effectiveness after a single wound, whereas the Sternguard just dies.

In this case I would also go with the Heavy Bolters. If you're willing to use a different chapter tactic, Imperial Fist Tactics will make Heavy Bolters extremely brutal.

Regular bolters for me.

Special ammo too good. also more stuff to put on the models belts. (those loose ammo strips)

as above its functionally the only thing that separates them from regular marines besides vet stats

Also the heavy flamer which is the only place you can get them.

Id go with combi wepaons of some sort. personally like 10man units with 2 heavy flamers 3 combi flamers and 5 melta guns. melt and roast out of a drop pod.

Oh yeah, forgot combi-flamers was a thing.

5 Sternguards armed with combi-flamers will make any horde army cry tears of blood.

If you just want 5 vets with stormbolters, take a command squad. You don’t need to upgrade to any of the special guys. But then at least you aren’t paying for the special ammo you aren’t able to use.

Command squad + 5 SB = 115 points
Sternguard + 5 SB = 135.

Exactly the same on the table. Now both squads could be taken in different (more effective) directions, but if that’s the squad you want to field, why waste 20 points?