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I understand that the enclaves lost all their Enthreals in battle and essentially Farsight has complete command. Now I've heard people argue that they are able to free think because the Enthreals "hypnotic" abilities wore off because they have not been around for so long. The rest of the Tau seem to not really care about these enclaves that broke off from the Tau way of life... Why? Do the Enthreals fear the enclaves because they know that these enclaves found a way to ward off their hypnotism? Or do they fear something else? Maybe Farsight has been somehow influenced by the dark gods, maybe it's not as fast as a transition as a person would be influenced but what if the Enthreals do not want to make contact with essentially their forms of heretics because they feel it will spread corruption?

He carries a Daemon weapon and because of that is older than any other Tau so there's that.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
He carries a Daemon weapon and because of that is older than any other Tau so there's that.

Is it confirmed its a Daemon / Chaos weapon and not a Necron weapon (or any other alien race) - I thought it had not been stated just found in weird alien ruins etc?

If he is now a cultist he is not doing a very good job of converting the rest of the Tau in his enclave.....?

Tau can be corrupted physically and spiritually as they are "blunt" not "black" so its harder for Daemons and the like to perceive them but not impossible before anyone gets excited about them being immune to the warp or other nonsense.

From reading Farsight Enclaves I think it's heavily implied. Daemons defend the blade, Farsight sees visions when he gets it and after the incident the suppliment connects all of those with warp travel and chaos gods. Since the suppliment is written out of Tau perspective it doesn't say "Chaos Daemons", but it's quite obvious I think.

It doesn't mean that he is a cultist already, it's probably just that he starts to hear strange voices, but we know how that ended for guys like Fulgrim.

It's reasonable to assume that Farsight's sword is actually a Necron weapon, and more likely a War in Heaven era Necrontyr weapon. Here's why.

1. The design of the weapon. It's a one-sided blade, resembling a falchion, with a normal-sized base that expands to a flat area on one side, and then curves on one side to a point. Now, look at Necron weapons. Almost all of them, including the bayonets on Gauss blasters, follow the exact same layout. There's not a single daemon weapon I found in all of my searching that was so clean and followed that weapon design. The closest match, the Laer Blade, still had the symbol of Slaanesh on it, and some chaotic spikes and curves on the hilt. The Dawn Blade completely lacks any chaotic features, except (allegedly) the life-force eating. I'll get to that in a second.

2. Mechanics of the blade. The Tau and FSE codex is meta-knowledge, meaning it has a higher weight than fiction novels (not that there's any where the Dawn Blade is actually said to eat a soul, but just CYA here). The Dawn Blade is always stated to consume the life-force of anybody it slays. Not soul, life-force. It's stated time and time again that Chaos deals entirely in souls. I could not find an instance of a Chaotic thing draining or giving "life-force", only draining souls or psychic ability. Remember. If Games Workshop was trying to say "soul", they would have said "soul".
This is important because of the plight of the Necrontyr before biotransference. The tech of the modern necrons is the same (or inferior because of technological stagnation) to the old Necrontyr. The Necrontyr were struggling with short natural lifespans, so logically they'd focus on life-extending technology (which they did, see their cryo-vessels mentioned in either the 4th or 5th edition codex and the whole biotransference thing.) It's extremely likely that the Dawn Blade is an artifact of fringe Necrontyr science, possibly using the same technologies used to drain life force out of the Necrontyr population during biotransference.

3. Arthas Moloch's role and the Talismans. The Dawn Blade and Talismans were found on Arthas Moloch. Arthas Moloch is described as being very psychically active, and covered in ruins and strange formations. The existence of Talismans (Which block psychic powers) and the Dawn Blade on Arthas Moloch likely mean one thing. Arthas Moloch was the site of a battle between the Necrontyr and Old Ones. The battle was likely apocalyptically large, leaving the planet in ruins, and the remnants of the psychic weapons and powers used by the Old Ones wore the warp dangerously thin in the area, and the weapons left by the Necrontyr (being technological in nature and not biological/psychic, like the Old Ones' weapons) were the only ones that remained. The only thing the Old Ones left behind was the thinly-worn warp near the planet. Farsight's expedition arrived just in time for the Necrontyr technologies holding the warp in check to flicker, and some daemons flooded through the breach and killed all of Farsight's Ethereals.

Therefore, in a combination of design, mechanics, and the story of Arthas Moloch, the Dawn Blade is, in fact, a Necrontyr weapon, instead of a Daemon Weapon.

 Verviedi wrote:
It's reasonable to assume that Farsight's sword is actually a Necron weapon, and more likely a War in Heaven era Necrontyr weapon. Here's why.

1. The design of the weapon. It's a one-sided blade, resembling a falchion, with a normal-sized base that expands to a flat area on one side, and then curves on one side to a point. Now, look at Necron weapons. Almost all of them, including the bayonets on Gauss blasters, follow the exact same layout. There's not a single daemon weapon I found in all of my searching that was so clean and followed that weapon design. The closest match, the Laer Blade, still had the symbol of Slaanesh on it, and some chaotic spikes and curves on the hilt. The Dawn Blade completely lacks any chaotic features, except (allegedly) the life-force eating. I'll get to that in a second.

2. Mechanics of the blade. The Tau and FSE codex is meta-knowledge, meaning it has a higher weight than fiction novels (not that there's any where the Dawn Blade is actually said to eat a soul, but just CYA here). The Dawn Blade is always stated to consume the life-force of anybody it slays. Not soul, life-force. It's stated time and time again that Chaos deals entirely in souls. I could not find an instance of a Chaotic thing draining or giving "life-force", only draining souls or psychic ability. Remember. If Games Workshop was trying to say "soul", they would have said "soul".
This is important because of the plight of the Necrontyr before biotransference. The tech of the modern necrons is the same (or inferior because of technological stagnation) to the old Necrontyr. The Necrontyr were struggling with short natural lifespans, so logically they'd focus on life-extending technology (which they did, see their cryo-vessels mentioned in either the 4th or 5th edition codex and the whole biotransference thing.) It's extremely likely that the Dawn Blade is an artifact of fringe Necrontyr science, possibly using the same technologies used to drain life force out of the Necrontyr population during biotransference.

3. Arthas Moloch's role and the Talismans. The Dawn Blade and Talismans were found on Arthas Moloch. Arthas Moloch is described as being very psychically active, and covered in ruins and strange formations. The existence of Talismans (Which block psychic powers) and the Dawn Blade on Arthas Moloch likely mean one thing. Arthas Moloch was the site of a battle between the Necrontyr and Old Ones. The battle was likely apocalyptically large, leaving the planet in ruins, and the remnants of the psychic weapons and powers used by the Old Ones wore the warp dangerously thin in the area, and the weapons left by the Necrontyr (being technological in nature and not biological/psychic, like the Old Ones' weapons) were the only ones that remained. The only thing the Old Ones left behind was the thinly-worn warp near the planet. Farsight's expedition arrived just in time for the Necrontyr technologies holding the warp in check to flicker, and some daemons flooded through the breach and killed all of Farsight's Ethereals.

Therefore, in a combination of design, mechanics, and the story of Arthas Moloch, the Dawn Blade is, in fact, a Necrontyr weapon, instead of a Daemon Weapon.

I would definitely have to side with Verviedi on this, especially as the artifacts on Arthas Moloch in fact seemed to repel and destroy the demons:

"Acting on instinct, Farsight ordered his warriors to retrieve the hexagram from the ancient statue and carry it forwards against the flame-beasts. A few tense seconds passed before the breathless report came that the multi-coloured aliens were falling back before it. "

This suggests the weapon is unlikely to be Chaotic in origin, and is as previously stated, similar to the design of Necron blades, or perhaps even those of the ancient Eldar in the employ of the Old ones.

 Verviedi wrote:
It's reasonable to assume that Farsight's sword is actually a Necron weapon, and more likely a War in Heaven era Necrontyr weapon. Here's why.

1. The design of the weapon. It's a one-sided blade, resembling a falchion, with a normal-sized base that expands to a flat area on one side, and then curves on one side to a point. Now, look at Necron weapons. Almost all of them, including the bayonets on Gauss blasters, follow the exact same layout. There's not a single daemon weapon I found in all of my searching that was so clean and followed that weapon design. The closest match, the Laer Blade, still had the symbol of Slaanesh on it, and some chaotic spikes and curves on the hilt. The Dawn Blade completely lacks any chaotic features, except (allegedly) the life-force eating. I'll get to that in a second.

2. Mechanics of the blade. The Tau and FSE codex is meta-knowledge, meaning it has a higher weight than fiction novels (not that there's any where the Dawn Blade is actually said to eat a soul, but just CYA here). The Dawn Blade is always stated to consume the life-force of anybody it slays. Not soul, life-force. It's stated time and time again that Chaos deals entirely in souls. I could not find an instance of a Chaotic thing draining or giving "life-force", only draining souls or psychic ability. Remember. If Games Workshop was trying to say "soul", they would have said "soul".
This is important because of the plight of the Necrontyr before biotransference. The tech of the modern necrons is the same (or inferior because of technological stagnation) to the old Necrontyr. The Necrontyr were struggling with short natural lifespans, so logically they'd focus on life-extending technology (which they did, see their cryo-vessels mentioned in either the 4th or 5th edition codex and the whole biotransference thing.) It's extremely likely that the Dawn Blade is an artifact of fringe Necrontyr science, possibly using the same technologies used to drain life force out of the Necrontyr population during biotransference.

3. Arthas Moloch's role and the Talismans. The Dawn Blade and Talismans were found on Arthas Moloch. Arthas Moloch is described as being very psychically active, and covered in ruins and strange formations. The existence of Talismans (Which block psychic powers) and the Dawn Blade on Arthas Moloch likely mean one thing. Arthas Moloch was the site of a battle between the Necrontyr and Old Ones. The battle was likely apocalyptically large, leaving the planet in ruins, and the remnants of the psychic weapons and powers used by the Old Ones wore the warp dangerously thin in the area, and the weapons left by the Necrontyr (being technological in nature and not biological/psychic, like the Old Ones' weapons) were the only ones that remained. The only thing the Old Ones left behind was the thinly-worn warp near the planet. Farsight's expedition arrived just in time for the Necrontyr technologies holding the warp in check to flicker, and some daemons flooded through the breach and killed all of Farsight's Ethereals.

Therefore, in a combination of design, mechanics, and the story of Arthas Moloch, the Dawn Blade is, in fact, a Necrontyr weapon, instead of a Daemon Weapon.

Can't check because I am on my phone, but I think thee Daemonblade Malleus Inquisitors can wield steals life force. I think it's even called life drinker or something. One of the random abilities.

I have always been of the inclination that the dawnblade was in fact daemonic in nature, but after reading this, after I pull out my Montka when I get home to verify, I am inclined to agree. Seems Necron-ish to me.

That's interesting, and raises an interesting point. What exactly is the difference between life force and souls? My guess is life force is a latent biological psychic phenomenon, and souls are the metaphysical representation of the entity in the Warp.

That's very interesting, and damages point two. However, logically Chaos weapons should be able to drain life force and souls (because of how they work), but Necron weapons should only be able to grab life force. (C'Tan obviously don't count)

 Verviedi wrote:
That's interesting, and raises an interesting point. What exactly is the difference between life force and souls? My guess is life force is a latent biological psychic phenomenon, and souls are the metaphysical representation of the entity in the Warp.

That's very interesting, and damages point two. However, logically Chaos weapons should be able to drain life force and souls (because of how they work), but Necron weapons should only be able to grab life force. (C'Tan obviously don't count)

I believe Life force could be defined in this universe as the living tissues and energy of something that is alive where as the soul is actually a trans-dimensional spirit that resides in people of 40k.

By splicing these two concepts into a biological and spirtual side, they can have "blanks" in the 40k universe = beings that are alive and well but do not contain a spirit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This also makes sense for it being a necrotyr weapon. The C'tan fed on the living energy of beings - not souls.
Kinda like the human batteries in the matrix.

 Verviedi wrote:
It's reasonable to assume that Farsight's sword is actually a Necron weapon, and more likely a War in Heaven era Necrontyr weapon. Here's why.

1. The design of the weapon. It's a one-sided blade, resembling a falchion, with a normal-sized base that expands to a flat area on one side, and then curves on one side to a point. Now, look at Necron weapons. Almost all of them, including the bayonets on Gauss blasters, follow the exact same layout. There's not a single daemon weapon I found in all of my searching that was so clean and followed that weapon design. The closest match, the Laer Blade, still had the symbol of Slaanesh on it, and some chaotic spikes and curves on the hilt. The Dawn Blade completely lacks any chaotic features, except (allegedly) the life-force eating. I'll get to that in a second.

2. Mechanics of the blade. The Tau and FSE codex is meta-knowledge, meaning it has a higher weight than fiction novels (not that there's any where the Dawn Blade is actually said to eat a soul, but just CYA here). The Dawn Blade is always stated to consume the life-force of anybody it slays. Not soul, life-force. It's stated time and time again that Chaos deals entirely in souls. I could not find an instance of a Chaotic thing draining or giving "life-force", only draining souls or psychic ability. Remember. If Games Workshop was trying to say "soul", they would have said "soul".
This is important because of the plight of the Necrontyr before biotransference. The tech of the modern necrons is the same (or inferior because of technological stagnation) to the old Necrontyr. The Necrontyr were struggling with short natural lifespans, so logically they'd focus on life-extending technology (which they did, see their cryo-vessels mentioned in either the 4th or 5th edition codex and the whole biotransference thing.) It's extremely likely that the Dawn Blade is an artifact of fringe Necrontyr science, possibly using the same technologies used to drain life force out of the Necrontyr population during biotransference.

3. Arthas Moloch's role and the Talismans. The Dawn Blade and Talismans were found on Arthas Moloch. Arthas Moloch is described as being very psychically active, and covered in ruins and strange formations. The existence of Talismans (Which block psychic powers) and the Dawn Blade on Arthas Moloch likely mean one thing. Arthas Moloch was the site of a battle between the Necrontyr and Old Ones. The battle was likely apocalyptically large, leaving the planet in ruins, and the remnants of the psychic weapons and powers used by the Old Ones wore the warp dangerously thin in the area, and the weapons left by the Necrontyr (being technological in nature and not biological/psychic, like the Old Ones' weapons) were the only ones that remained. The only thing the Old Ones left behind was the thinly-worn warp near the planet. Farsight's expedition arrived just in time for the Necrontyr technologies holding the warp in check to flicker, and some daemons flooded through the breach and killed all of Farsight's Ethereals.

Therefore, in a combination of design, mechanics, and the story of Arthas Moloch, the Dawn Blade is, in fact, a Necrontyr weapon, instead of a Daemon Weapon.

three word response here ... "just as planned"

it could be a necron blade though the whole thing reeks of tzeench

By definition, the more a thing "reeks of Tzeentch", the less likely Tzeentch actually played a part in it (with the exception of, say, daemonic invasions).

It was designed at the same time as the studio were redesigning the Necron look, which probably explains some of the similarities.

 Verviedi wrote:
By definition, the more a thing "reeks of Tzeentch", the less likely Tzeentch actually played a part in it (with the exception of, say, daemonic invasions).

Tzeentch doesn't really play much of a part in anything in the material realm. Most of what goes on there is far beneath Tzeentch's notice, he is occupied by his schemes in the Great Game.

If I recall correctly, in the 5E necron codex, when the silent king was searching for a solution to the necrontyr's short lifespan from the various Ctan, the Nightbringer's solution was to forge a blade from himself able to steal the life of it's victim and add it to the blade's wielder and that said blade has been missing for eons or something like that. I thought that kind of implied it might be the dawn blade.

 chalkobob wrote:
If I recall correctly, in the 5E necron codex, when the silent king was searching for a solution to the necrontyr's short lifespan from the various Ctan, the Nightbringer's solution was to forge a blade from himself able to steal the life of it's victim and add it to the blade's wielder and that said blade has been missing for eons or something like that. I thought that kind of implied it might be the dawn blade.

Can you find a quote on that?

 Verviedi wrote:
It's reasonable to assume that Farsight's sword is actually a Necron weapon, and more likely a War in Heaven era Necrontyr weapon. Here's why.

1. The design of the weapon. It's a one-sided blade, resembling a falchion, with a normal-sized base that expands to a flat area on one side, and then curves on one side to a point. Now, look at Necron weapons. Almost all of them, including the bayonets on Gauss blasters, follow the exact same layout. There's not a single daemon weapon I found in all of my searching that was so clean and followed that weapon design. The closest match, the Laer Blade, still had the symbol of Slaanesh on it, and some chaotic spikes and curves on the hilt. The Dawn Blade completely lacks any chaotic features, except (allegedly) the life-force eating. I'll get to that in a second.

2. Mechanics of the blade. The Tau and FSE codex is meta-knowledge, meaning it has a higher weight than fiction novels (not that there's any where the Dawn Blade is actually said to eat a soul, but just CYA here). The Dawn Blade is always stated to consume the life-force of anybody it slays. Not soul, life-force. It's stated time and time again that Chaos deals entirely in souls. I could not find an instance of a Chaotic thing draining or giving "life-force", only draining souls or psychic ability. Remember. If Games Workshop was trying to say "soul", they would have said "soul".
This is important because of the plight of the Necrontyr before biotransference. The tech of the modern necrons is the same (or inferior because of technological stagnation) to the old Necrontyr. The Necrontyr were struggling with short natural lifespans, so logically they'd focus on life-extending technology (which they did, see their cryo-vessels mentioned in either the 4th or 5th edition codex and the whole biotransference thing.) It's extremely likely that the Dawn Blade is an artifact of fringe Necrontyr science, possibly using the same technologies used to drain life force out of the Necrontyr population during biotransference.

3. Arthas Moloch's role and the Talismans. The Dawn Blade and Talismans were found on Arthas Moloch. Arthas Moloch is described as being very psychically active, and covered in ruins and strange formations. The existence of Talismans (Which block psychic powers) and the Dawn Blade on Arthas Moloch likely mean one thing. Arthas Moloch was the site of a battle between the Necrontyr and Old Ones. The battle was likely apocalyptically large, leaving the planet in ruins, and the remnants of the psychic weapons and powers used by the Old Ones wore the warp dangerously thin in the area, and the weapons left by the Necrontyr (being technological in nature and not biological/psychic, like the Old Ones' weapons) were the only ones that remained. The only thing the Old Ones left behind was the thinly-worn warp near the planet. Farsight's expedition arrived just in time for the Necrontyr technologies holding the warp in check to flicker, and some daemons flooded through the breach and killed all of Farsight's Ethereals.

Therefore, in a combination of design, mechanics, and the story of Arthas Moloch, the Dawn Blade is, in fact, a Necrontyr weapon, instead of a Daemon Weapon.

I tend to agree with this. The Dawn Blade smacks of the kind of anti-Warp and bio-transference technologies the C'Tan and Necrons were noted for during that era.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 chalkobob wrote:
If I recall correctly, in the 5E necron codex, when the silent king was searching for a solution to the necrontyr's short lifespan from the various Ctan, the Nightbringer's solution was to forge a blade from himself able to steal the life of it's victim and add it to the blade's wielder and that said blade has been missing for eons or something like that. I thought that kind of implied it might be the dawn blade.

Can you find a quote on that?

This is not from the 5E necron codex, I don't know where it originates from (white dwarf maybe?) but this has been quoted a few times including here on dakka.


When the Necrontyr had first called forth the ancient C'tan and given them bodies of living metal, the C'tan offered many rewards to the faithful.

The Silent King spoke for his people, and the request was simple. "Life".

The C'tan thought on this, and each offered solutions. Llandu'gor suggested they used others as vessels, shifting life to life. Iash'uddra suggested all the Necrontyr shared their minds together, becoming a whole that would survive the death of any of their individual parts.

In the end, the Necrontyr chose the suggestion of Mephet'ran, but there was one other that was tempting to the Silent King.

Aza'gorod offered a blade, formed from his body and essence. He explained that this blade would grant eternal life to its user, as long as he kept on reaping souls for him. The Silent King looked at the blade with longing, but he knew that his first duty was to his people, and a solution for him, would not have been a solution for all.

And so the blade of death went unused, until it was claimed by a fiend of the foolish Eldar in one of their battles with the Necrons.