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To quit distracting from this thread
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/694393.page

What are your thoughts and opinions about living "off the grid?" I've seen a bell curve of it, from people who want to be less reliant or grow more organic (read less freaking cancer causing) gardens and foodstuffs to the other end of radical prepper who is positive that the government is going to implode and take civilization with it.

Me? As the resident neanderthal I'm all about the benefits of civilization. I like a good coffee, a good bourbon, a good tv show, and all the benefits a kitchen especially decked out for high end baking. CAKE CAKE CAKE CAKE CAKE! I'm not trying to kid myself that I'm probably a dead man within a month of my prescriptions running out, and I like it that way (so does the wife. )

A certain amount of isolation could definitely be a motive. Distrust of the government could be another major factor.

Honestly I distrust people, If I ever did it, that would be my major motivation.

I would like to get away from modernity sometimes and chill out with a wood burning stove and so on. It would be like my childhood holidays when we stayed in a cottage with hot water provided by a coal fire, went on long country walks, climbing trees and all that sort of stuff.

Unfortunately Mrs Kilkrazy's idea of "glamping" is the Prince Hotel Hakone.

I'm not sure how long I could live without a decent filter coffee.

Cyberpunk author William Gibson anticipated this temporary media fast lifestyle in Idoru (1996.) It seems an age ago now.

The ideas nice

The practical aspect is different.
100% self sustainable is nigh impossible. Always depend on outside for some things or materials.

If your burning wood and own a large forest. Yeah. Fuel. But not easy minus a chainsaw. And that's fuel. Fuel is outside supply.

Etc.

Wait Living off the grid

or living completely off the grid?

As much as i hate the govment snoopin on me at all times,

i like the internet too much.

Living "off the grid" just isn't particularly feasible for most people, "the grid" is what allows a human population of 7 billion to exist. Living off the grid also becomes increasingly less feasible the older one becomes. It's one thing to do so when you're 22. It's another when you are 42 or 62, and all it takes is one injury to either make that lifestyle impossible to maintain or permanently end that life.

For a very small handful of people who do not require human interaction, who care nothing for the wonders and conveniences of the modern (or even just post-iron age) world, who are in great physical condition and possess a stellar knowledge of living off the land, it can work if they move to the wilds of alaska.

That said, most "off the grid" living still makes heavy use of "the grids" products, be it simple tools, canned foods, etc.

It's a nice fantasy every once in a while to think about, but that's about it methinks.

Until some of the amazing television that is happening right now stops broadcasting, I will never live off the grid.

I know some people that have tried and years later when we are all having conversations that require connection to "the grid" and they are looking at us completely baffled, they come around.

"What is this Game of Thrones?" Ha, you fool!

Agreed, If I couldn't watch GoT and see the book on TV(more or less) then I would be inconsolable.

 Frazzled wrote:
To quit distracting from this thread
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/694393.page

What are your thoughts and opinions about living "off the grid?" I've seen a bell curve of it, from people who want to be less reliant or grow more organic (read less freaking cancer causing) gardens and foodstuffs to the other end of radical prepper who is positive that the government is going to implode and take civilization with it.

Me? As the resident neanderthal I'm all about the benefits of civilization. I like a good coffee, a good bourbon, a good tv show, and all the benefits a kitchen especially decked out for high end baking. CAKE CAKE CAKE CAKE CAKE! I'm not trying to kid myself that I'm probably a dead man within a month of my prescriptions running out, and I like it that way (so does the wife. )

problem is in this day and age it is getting harder and harder to get off the grid, most kids these days couldn't imagine not having internet. and theonly real way to go off the grid these days is thru Amish communities and that is no longer a sure thing.

As to "Cancer" causing gardens? you evidently never seen "organic" gardening, I have give me the "cancer" stuff any day of the week (also its not really causing cancer, its the pots and pans you use that are.)

Not much gaming "off the grid". I'll pass.

I definitely wouldnt mind a simpler, more rustic way of life..but not completely tech free.

Asterios wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
To quit distracting from this thread
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/694393.page

What are your thoughts and opinions about living "off the grid?" I've seen a bell curve of it, from people who want to be less reliant or grow more organic (read less freaking cancer causing) gardens and foodstuffs to the other end of radical prepper who is positive that the government is going to implode and take civilization with it.

Me? As the resident neanderthal I'm all about the benefits of civilization. I like a good coffee, a good bourbon, a good tv show, and all the benefits a kitchen especially decked out for high end baking. CAKE CAKE CAKE CAKE CAKE! I'm not trying to kid myself that I'm probably a dead man within a month of my prescriptions running out, and I like it that way (so does the wife. )

problem is in this day and age it is getting harder and harder to get off the grid, most kids these days couldn't imagine not having internet. and theonly real way to go off the grid these days is thru Amish communities and that is no longer a sure thing.

As to "Cancer" causing gardens? you evidently never seen "organic" gardening, I have give me the "cancer" stuff any day of the week (also its not really causing cancer, its the pots and pans you use that are.)

lolwat on the Amish thing. What is wrong with "organic gardening" and how are pots and pans causing cancer?

Gotta be careful going off the grid these days, lots of areas are passing zoning ordnances to force you to stay on it. I remember a town in Colorado passed something that essentially forbid anything aside from a proper house (aka utilities and the works) from being on your property for over a year or something like that. It was supposedly to "get people to not just camp on it" but locals claimed it was clearly aimed at keeping people on the grid and not roughing it.

I also remembered hearing something about people who were getting most of their power from solar or other methods getting charged fees by the electric company for not using their services. Sounded kind of BS to me but people swore it was true.

However, if youre talking about going 100% off the grid, thats going to be tough outside Canadian tundra/alaska. Any land that is halfway decent for farming and living on will have people nearby.

The best you can usually do is a couple weeks hiking in the boonies, gives you the same effect and it'll make you appreciate how incredible it is you can walk into a restaurant and demand someone do all the work for your dinner with no effort of your own involved, not to mention not having to haul out the garbage and hang the bearbag.

As I always put it jokingly for my more indoors oriented friends "nothing makes you appreciate technology like forsaking it for a couple weeks on purpose." Without going out in the woods, you really dont appreciate how amazing it is to have a warm bed, a car to drive you around, running water and choice of whatever food you want to eat. And this is coming from a guy who loves the outdoors, it aint something you want to do forever. We evolved society the way it is today for a reason after all

Amish communities stopped being off the grid years ago. Most don't have electricity in their homes still, but they use natural gas for light and heat and cooking, and Amish businesses use modern tech at work. Carpenters use power tools, stores use POS systems, they drive cars with blacked out bumpers (though I did legit get cut off by a horse and buggy the other day). Alaskans and people in areas like the Ozarks are better examples

I've quite liked the idea of using solar panels and a battery to be able to keep my house from using power from outside.

I don't think we're there yet with the technology.

I nearly bought solar panels just to get my electricity bill down but then they cut the solar subsidy by 90%ish and it wasn't viable to have them installed after that.

I like the romance of the idea. If I were to do that it'd have to be for a week or two and that's it. I also really enjoy the modern world, but sometimes I think it's a good idea to just unplug for awhile.

There was an article in The Economist or some such serious magazine a few weeks back saying that over the next 10 years massive storage batteries are going to become economic for domestic use. They are already in use in some national power and major business power situations.

This hardware combined with individual mini-power generators (wind, solar, geothermal) and low energy technology for lighting and so on, might start to break down the current rationale of the power supply infrastructure.

I've toyed with this idea a bit. I live in rural Iowa not too far from Omaha, Nebraska. While I own a rather large home in a decent sized (for the area) town, I have been tempted to build a rustic cabin somewhere between Omaha and Sioux City.

I've found a couple places for sale over the years, including a disused quarry. Imagine a place that is within 50 miles of two major cities, a stones throw from a major Interstate highway, and still far enough away from any of the major travel areas that you MIGHT see a car pass once per day.

This area has some completely undeveloped land, but still sits on literally the richest farming soil in the world (Loess Hills dirt, only found here and in a remote part of China). It's still far away from any kind of flood plain.

I'd have a smallish cabin built over a reinforced bunker, with about 18 months of food and water, water filtration, a water-filled quarry stocked with fish, decent hunting/trapping area, a giant propane tank with a year's supply of propane, solar panels, and a generator. Yet this place is still close enough to some kind of civilization that I could be on the grid for as long as I could, still get some broadcast TV, have municipal water/sewer, and still be 45 minutes away from some place to get supplies.

I'm viewing this as a weekend retreat man cave. I can use it for family bonding, wife-free friend time, or as an emergency relocation area in case of a natural disaster (or Red Dawn style Russian takeover).

Hello fellow Iowanite!

 Kilkrazy wrote:
There was an article in The Economist or some such serious magazine a few weeks back saying that over the next 10 years massive storage batteries are going to become economic for domestic use. They are already in use in some national power and major business power situations.

This hardware combined with individual mini-power generators (wind, solar, geothermal) and low energy technology for lighting and so on, might start to break down the current rationale of the power supply infrastructure.

Until the Power companies puts the boots to them.

There is no way Edison or any power company is going to let their ham go without a fight.

If I install a massive battery and a micro combined heat and power unit using solar, wind and geothermal, what are the power company going to do to me?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
If I install a massive battery and a micro combined heat and power unit using solar, wind and geothermal, what are the power company going to do to me?

you would be surprised I read a story about a guy who collected rain water on his property without a permit and was fined(err jailed) for doing so: (mostly from continuing to do the same thing, evidently you need a permit to collect large amounts of rain water)

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/rainwater.asp

Of there is a way that the government can tax you or make a buck off you...they will find it.

 TheMeanDM wrote:
Of there is a way that the government can tax you or make a buck off you...they will find it.

Plus various ways of preventing you from doing so via permits and restrictions and local laws.

ALL pretty much petitioned and bankrolled by special lobby groups.

its the American way.

edit: Rain water IIRC is special for California as IIRC California has Zero Rights to the rain water. for some pants on head crazy reason some company actually owns the water rights.

i dont know why

The thing about living off the grid is that you are significantly reducing your quality of life to do so. I mean it's one thing to be self-reliant and build an underground house with solar panels and such to reduce your costs, but disconnecting entirely is essentially going back 3000 years it time.

 Breotan wrote:
The thing about living off the grid is that you are significantly reducing your quality of life to do so. I mean it's one thing to be self-reliant and build an underground house with solar panels and such to reduce your costs, but disconnecting entirely is essentially going back 3000 years it time.

Its not without its charm though.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
If I install a massive battery and a micro combined heat and power unit using solar, wind and geothermal, what are the power company going to do to me?

You would be amazed at the stories I've heard.

Everything from being fined by the company, to zoning laws being passed that just so happen to make your ingenious solution illegal, to home owners associations banning it because it looks ugly. That super energy efficient house you built that only needs 5% of the energy costs to heat/cool it? Not built to code, tear it down. Making so much solar energy youre actually pumping power INTO the grid? You'll get fined for not having a license to produce power. Figure out a clever way to store rain water? Sorry you dont have a permit to do that, it better be unhooked by next week. Want to own a plot of land and live in a handbuilt shed so you can live out your outdoorsman fantasies? I'm sorry, that town's borders ten miles away just extended to your property and you need to build a proper house on it if you want to live in it for more than two weeks at a time.

If theres one thing mankind is good at, its sticking their nose in someone else's business.

It is kinda a secret dream for me. To have a quaint little farm with a cute little family somewhere out in the wilderness. A bit like in the Edge of Alaska series on Discovery.
I would not want to live entirely off the grid though. Preferably there would be a small and cozy tight-knit community nearby to fit in. I can stand being alone for quite long time, but if I don't talk to other people for long enough, I really get mad

Born and raised in a big city- I'd be bored out of my mind within a day or two.

I read a guy's blog a LONG time ago. Basically, here is how his story went, and how he got fed up with the local home-owner's association. Warning, LONG STORY.

When this guy was in his mid 20's (I want to say this was in the early 70's) he decided to build a home. He purchased a large parcel of land just outside his city's limits. The land used to be a grain shipping co-op. It was zoned for agricultural, industrial, and residential use. There where some building and railroad tracks that hadn't been used in decades.

He tore down most of the buildings and built his home, planting trees that would one day be a nice thicket of woods.

As the years passed the city expanded its boarders, encircling his property. However, due to legal reasons he was grandfathered into his old zoning restrictions (i.e., none).

A developer bought all the land around him and started building a gated community. This is when the harassment started. Dozens of times they knocked on his door, asking him to join the HOA, which he declined. After that they sued, trying to force him to join. They failed.

Even though he was never part of the HOA, they still levied fines against his property. His house color wasn't up to code, his fence was too tall and not the right style or color, he had the wrong kind of grass planted, his garden wasn't approved, etc. They even put a lean on his home (totally illegal by the way). He successfully fought them in court at every turn. After so many fraudulent lawsuits brought by the HOA, the judges were sick of seeing this man harassed, and started to award him legal fees and to verbally reprimand the HOA lawyers for their actions.

When he came back from vacation he found a contractor ripping out his fence and cutting down his trees because they "violated HOA rules". After another round of lawsuits (he won with legal fees attached) he rebuilt the fence. He made it look nice where he could see it from his home, but around the blind corner, and across from the newly built Mc-Mansions, he made it look as God-awful as he could.

Since the Gated community literally encircled 90% of his property they only way to drive in was through a road in the gated community. They denied him access as it was "their street". This is illegal, as you can not deny someone access to their property, despite being a gated community. So, in order to appease the letter of the law, they opened up a barely used maintenance path (barely better than a dirt trail) that lead to his property. Legal, yes, but not adequate for his needs. So, with his own money he built two access points over the dis-used railroad tracks that ran on the edge of his property. The other side of the tracks was non-HOA property, and they couldn't stop him.

This is where it gets funny. He needed a storage shed, and was going to build one. However, he found a legal loophole. Since his property used to have a functional train depot, he could once again (legally speaking) make it a depot again, despite not having any grain to ship. If there is a functional depot (even in name only) the government is required to maintain the tracks. So, this lead a year-long construction to bring the tracks up to code, making access to the gated community though "their" street almost impossible. Now that the line was functional, it actually became a usable route by trains, and some occasionally passed though. Needless to say, having freight trains pass through a gated community doesn't exactly help resell values.

Now it gets even funnier. He always wanted a small pond on his property. He contacted a contractor with the intentions of digging a hole in a low-laying area of his land and filling it with water. It turns out he has a good deposit of sand and gravel. The contractor, through his connections, agreed to a deal. Let them take a little extra time to mine this material and let them have it for free, and he'd basically dig the hole for a massively reduced cost. Everybody wins, except the HOA of course. Not only did they have to deal with the sounds of heavy machinery, but the owners railroad crossings were inadequate for the dump trucks carrying the gravel. Since this was for a state construction job, legally they HAD to be allowed to use the HOA road for access. and dump trucks being dump trucks, they were loud, smelly, and had a trail of sand and mud being dumped behind them as they left.

After some more harassment by the HOA president the owner decided to start a hobby he was always interested in, private Ham Radio. Instead of buying a new efficient antenna, he bought a surplus 75-foot tower, which he installed on the very corner of his property, next door to the HOA president. Since he is technically zoned for agricultural use, he has threatened to buy some pigs as well.