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The Space Marines are nothing if not thematic. Most of these themes seem to have basis in the background of the faction. The most obvious of these are "Angels" and "Blood". Blood Angels, Blood Ravens, Blood Drinkers, Knights of Blood, Flesh Tearers. All of these can be traced back to the ability of the SM to gain knowledge from fallen enemies by consuming their blood or flesh due to the Omophagea geneseed. Blood Angels (again), Dark Angels, Angels of Redemption, Angels Sanguine, Angels Vermillion. These can be considered a callback to the Space Marine moniker of the "Angels of Death". The one motif I've yet to find a reason for is Ravens. Blood Ravens (and there's that word "blood" again), Storm Raven, Raven Guard. Even the Mark VI "Beaky" armour is officially called the Corvus armor (Ravens are of the genus Corvidae). Where in the fluff does this come from? Is it just a reference to the Raven Guard primarch?

This has been bothering me way more than it should, but insomnia's a bitch, and once something like this gets stuck in my head, I can't seem to get it out until I have an answer.

Ravens are symbolic of death. It's spooky scary stuff to frighten enemies of the Imperium.

The raven was the sigil of the Roman Legions, of which there were 20, and two of them were removed from all records as a punishment. Sound familiar?

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
The raven was the sigil of the Roman Legions, of which there were 20, and two of them were removed from all records as a punishment. Sound familiar?

Romans used an eagle, not a raven. Later groups like the Scandinavians used ravens.

This offers some insight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_depictions_of_ravens

In Greek mythology the raven was associated with the god Apollo and represented good luck and providence or, by way of association with the god himself, prophesy. They were also often depicted as messengers from the gods. The Romans naturally followed suit here.

Christianity also depicts the raven favourably, which may be the Roman influence showing through. They're described protecting the bodies of saints and carrying messages from God as well.

The bird itself has been interacting with humans for thousands of years and is remarked on for its versatility, high intelligence and distinctive features, which in turn influences many common themes in its depiction in myths.

For the Imperium, the raven as another angel analogue makes sense, as well as in the context of a messenger of the Emperor's will, which the Corvus armour in particular is a good example of. The Thousand Sons' affection for it probably has more to do with its connotations with prophesy and luck, the Raven Guard's name might also be a little bit of some native american imagery, and with that name in your cultural vocabulary the Stormraven is the logical name to apply to a gunship the size of that craft in relation to your other vehicles when you name then Storm Eagle and Thunderhawk.

Mozzyfuzzy wrote:This offers some insight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_depictions_of_ravens

Very good info. Thank you for the link.

Captain Joystick wrote:In Greek mythology the raven was associated with the god Apollo and represented good luck and providence or, by way of association with the god himself, prophesy. They were also often depicted as messengers from the gods. The Romans naturally followed suit here.

Christianity also depicts the raven favourably, which may be the Roman influence showing through. They're described protecting the bodies of saints and carrying messages from God as well.

The bird itself has been interacting with humans for thousands of years and is remarked on for its versatility, high intelligence and distinctive features, which in turn influences many common themes in its depiction in myths.

For the Imperium, the raven as another angel analogue makes sense, as well as in the context of a messenger of the Emperor's will, which the Corvus armour in particular is a good example of. The Thousand Sons' affection for it probably has more to do with its connotations with prophesy and luck, the Raven Guard's name might also be a little bit of some native american imagery, and with that name in your cultural vocabulary the Stormraven is the logical name to apply to a gunship the size of that craft in relation to your other vehicles when you name then Storm Eagle and Thunderhawk.

Pretty much confirms what Mozzy's link said. Thank you all for the replies. It's interesting that nearly every culture views ravens in a positive context. I would say that the wisdom/prophecy connection is the strongest in chapters like my Blood Ravens. This has been a very enlightening thread and gave me an interesting article to read (slow day at work). Bonus fun fact: my actual name comes from an old Gaelic word for "raven". Just one more interesting connection.

Because GW thought it was cool?

infinite_array wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
The raven was the sigil of the Roman Legions, of which there were 20, and two of them were removed from all records as a punishment. Sound familiar?

Romans used an eagle, not a raven. Later groups like the Scandinavians used ravens.

True, but as he says:

Captain Joystick wrote:In Greek mythology the raven was associated with the god Apollo and represented good luck... The Romans naturally followed suit here.

The Romans essentially copied their pantheon from the Greeks by Romes second king Numa Pompilius, so basically every significant God, festival, icon, etc in Greek religion has a copy in the Roman religion.

The Raven is always seen as a "good omen" to the Romans, and it first famously appears in Roman story telling with the Roman campaign against the Gauls in the Early Republican Period I think around 350 BCE. To make a long story short, a very large Gallic warrior challenged the Roman Army's men to single combat, and a man named Marcus Valerius Calenus (or Canelus, sorry it's been a while) agreed. As he is walking out to fight the Gaul, a raven lands on his shoulder (or helmet depending on who you read, Livy says his shoulder I believe). As the fight starts the Raven begins to peck at the Gaul's eyes, distracting him long enough for Marcus Valerius to kill him. The Romans then route the Gauls easily, and Marcus Valerius gains the honorific Corvus, which he later uses to replace the Calenus name. He also holds the Consulship six times, the first at only age 22, and the dictatorship 2... Or 3 again it's been a while... times and has a statue built in the Forum of Augustus, which is significant because Augustus made statues for Rome's greatest heroes there. He also lives to be 100 and later Romans try to claim bloodline with him as a means of legitimizing themselves.

So the name Corvus is associated with a great Roman hero and general with a fun and memorable story that persisted in the minds of the people at least until the end of Augustus' reign and likely later even though it happened 400+ years before. So if you were to model a theme of "legions" around the actual Roman ones, and wanted to create a unique flavor to them all that is based on real history, Corvus, and the symbology of the Raven is a perfectly understandable motif to use.

And @ Jeffersonian000 There were A LOT. More legions than 20.

I know. But I answered the question with GW facts. The Raven iconography as well as the Legions and the Lost Legions of the Astartes is based on Roman history as known by GW employees at the time of their eatly publications, as noted in interviews with each if the old time writers.

SJ