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OK, so recently came up in a game, and we didn't take the time to read the whole dang DFTS book, as to slow down the already large APOC game. I do not have the book, but my opponent does. So air to air flyers get -1 BS shooting at ground, does that mean a Heldrake would get -1 BS shooting at another flyer, or is it snap firing. IF it does snap fire, then during the dogfight phase, if I win and get to attack, does that mean I can not attack if I have a baleflamer equipped? I literally get extremely confused trying to figure this out, and I'm usually pretty good and interpreting RAW and intent and making a good decision.

So TLR
Can a Heldrake in the dogfight phase who wins get to make his attack with a baleflamer?
Can a Heldrake in the shooting phase attack another flyer?(Not vector strike, but flame)

Not sure how the DFTS rules work, so don't take this seriously, but I don't think template weapons can be used against flyers unless they're in Hover mode. Regardless of that, template weapons can NEVER Snap Shoot.

Understand that Template weapons can not snap shoot, and the FAQ draft does say templates can hit flyers if fired with a model with skyfire. My main confusion is, does the heldrake only get -1 BS shooting flyers, or does it snap shoot now, vs before when I could decide at start of shooting turn. if only -1 BS then based on FAQ draft I could use the template against another flyer/skimmer/FMC

Based on page 72 (Attack Sub-phase) it appears that snapfire or full BS is dependent on the role (Bomber/Attack/Fighter) and weapons. So for example, while normally a Fighter can choose to have Skyfire, if none of the weapons have it, it would still fire Snap Shots on a Head-on Pass.

For the second question, no. Heldrakes have the Attack Flyer role, and (like Bombers) cannot choose to have Skyfire.

OK, so during dog fight phase, and once on the board, the Heldrake can do nothing unless within 12 inches, based on the heldrake special rule that lets it make one attack in the dogfight phase?

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Not sure how the DFTS rules work, so don't take this seriously, but I don't think template weapons can be used against flyers unless they're in Hover mode. Regardless of that, template weapons can NEVER Snap Shoot.

According to the new FAQ, template weapons with Skyfire are now allowed to target flyers. I think with DFTS, Heldrakes are Attack Flyers and therefore lose Skyfire, but if you aren't using DFTS then they can shoot another flyer.

The one attack is in addition to other attacks. It's effectively getting to shoot and vector strike. I see nothing that disallows you from using the Baleflamer, so theoretically you could fire the flamer, and if within 12" and tailing get an additional hit.

The counter-argument is that nothing overrides the need for skyfire (to hit flyers with templates), and as such if you take the baleflamer the only way you can do damage during the dogfight is via Aerial Strike.

 KharnsRightHand wrote:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Not sure how the DFTS rules work, so don't take this seriously, but I don't think template weapons can be used against flyers unless they're in Hover mode. Regardless of that, template weapons can NEVER Snap Shoot.

According to the new FAQ, template weapons with Skyfire are now allowed to target flyers. I think with DFTS, Heldrakes are Attack Flyers and therefore lose Skyfire, but if you aren't using DFTS then they can shoot another flyer.

THe only issue with the new FAQ is it does not address if they can HIT flyers, just says templates can TARGET them. That is an unfortunate mistake in the FAQ.

barnowl wrote:

THe only issue with the new FAQ is it does not address if they can HIT flyers, just says templates can TARGET them. That is an unfortunate mistake in the FAQ.

It's pretty clear the the FAQ is intending for you to also hit the flyer. Whats the point of being able to to target a flier if you can't even hit it?

 CrownAxe wrote:

barnowl wrote:

THe only issue with the new FAQ is it does not address if they can HIT flyers, just says templates can TARGET them. That is an unfortunate mistake in the FAQ.

It's pretty clear the the FAQ is intending for you to also hit the flyer. Whats the point of being able to to target a flier if you can't even hit it?

What's the point of forcing something to take a Dangerous Terrain Test when it automatically passes it?

Remember that Snap Shooting never affects targetting, just firing.ability, and targetting, firing, and hitting are all separate things in the game.

 Charistoph wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

barnowl wrote:

THe only issue with the new FAQ is it does not address if they can HIT flyers, just says templates can TARGET them. That is an unfortunate mistake in the FAQ.

It's pretty clear the the FAQ is intending for you to also hit the flyer. Whats the point of being able to to target a flier if you can't even hit it?

What's the point of forcing something to take a Dangerous Terrain Test when it automatically passes it?

Remember that Snap Shooting never affects targetting, just firing.ability, and targetting, firing, and hitting are all separate things in the game.

\
Yeah but this is from an FAQ that is trying to clear up how the games work. It is 100% clear that the answer is intended for templates to also hit the flyer because it it doesn't that FAQ answer literally does nothing.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Yeah but this is from an FAQ that is trying to clear up how the games work. It is 100% clear that the answer is intended for templates to also hit the flyer because it it doesn't that FAQ answer literally does nothing.

That's one way to read in to an answer. No explanation was given as to why it can still target it, and the Draft says a lot of questions which are equally simple without explanation, and some of those answers also provide answers that are not in the rulebook.

 Charistoph wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

Yeah but this is from an FAQ that is trying to clear up how the games work. It is 100% clear that the answer is intended for templates to also hit the flyer because it it doesn't that FAQ answer literally does nothing.

That's one way to read in to an answer. No explanation was given as to why it can still target it, and the Draft says a lot of questions which are equally simple without explanation, and some of those answers also provide answers that are not in the rulebook.

The fact that the drafts says a lot of simple questions without explanation or answers don't match the rule book doesn't matter. It's a new rules source that is creating rules. You don't create rules that do nothing.

 CrownAxe wrote:

The fact that the drafts says a lot of simple questions without explanation or answers don't match the rule book doesn't matter. It's a new rules source that is creating rules. You don't create rules that do nothing.

I don't, but GW does, repeatedly, as I have already pointed out. And then they sometimes turn something in to nothing, or nothing in to something.

The fact is that answer does not state anything about actually hitting a Zoomer with a Template/Blast, it is only about targetting, and those are two separate functions in the game.