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Made in us
Slippery Scout Biker



Memphis, TN

I'm running a full battle company Gladius with 10th company. One Demi company is in drop pods, the other is las/plas Razorbacks. Both have drop pod MM venerable dreads. I have lots of melta and las already for vehicles. I was thinking either plasma or ML with flak since I have no other anti-air and they're versatile. What do yall think? Any other way to get some Anti-Air into my gladius?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/06/24 18:18:06


"They say heroes are born, but this can not be. Heroes are forged in a Crucible of fire. Only after one has lead others through the fire, without regard for his own life, may he bear the title of hero." 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Grav cannons. They are literally the answer to pretty much everything. Even just snap shooting then into into the air with doctrine re rolls is scary AA especially against fliers due to causing immobilization.

 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






Yeah its ridiculous how good grav cannons are.

but the old tried and true was Missiles as it was usually easy to get a bunch of them.

personally i like the lascanons as you can park em far back and pot shot things for a while.


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in ca
Deadshot Weapon Moderati




Grav Cannons firing at anything with a Sv4+ are a joke, and they're crazy expensive at 35pts each. Even missile launchers and flakk missiles are only 25pts.
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






But most things with 4+ saves any marine can deal with it, besides necrons but they are lame so who cares.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Nomeny wrote:
Grav Cannons firing at anything with a Sv4+ are a joke, and they're crazy expensive at 35pts each. Even missile launchers and flakk missiles are only 25pts.


Even against a 4+ save it's still a 75% chance to wound with the grav amp re rolls. I would hardly call That trash. Grav cannons are also hugely versatile to the point if stupidity. They are very expensive though especially on a generic marine. Putting them in a drop pod with a cataphractii armor termi captain gives then slow and purposeful so they can unleash a ton of damage.

 
   
Made in us
Slippery Scout Biker



Memphis, TN

I'm thinking I'm gonna drop the 10th company, trim down the battle company and add in a stormwing detachment. I've never run any fliers before, I jusy know how aweful they are to play against. I get the anti air with the benefit of having my own

"They say heroes are born, but this can not be. Heroes are forged in a Crucible of fire. Only after one has lead others through the fire, without regard for his own life, may he bear the title of hero." 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





What chapter are you playing? Imperial Fists make missile launchers much better, as the Tank Hunter rerolls let you reliably glance things to death.

Grav cannon are actually decent anti-air weapons, so long as you get them close enough to shoot. Just hold on to your Devastator doctrine until the enemy flyers arrive and then light them up with the rerolls to hit. You only need to get a couple of 6s to really make flyers sweat. I prefer to put them on Tactical Squads, though, as my Devastators tend to hang too far back to get good coverage.

I generally arm my Devastators with either missile launchers or lascannon, or sometimes 2 lascannon and 2 plasma cannon if I plan on combat squading. If you feel you already have plenty of anti tank then it might be worth taking Heavy Bolters. They're cheap, they have good range, and en masse they can threaten common opponents like Eldar bikes.

Madness is however an affliction which in war carries with it the advantage of surprise - Winston Churchill 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I don't use devastators. If I had grav cannons, I would consider 5 devs with two cannons in a Rhino.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I find grav cannon devs to be a little lacklustre. It's a 210 pt unit with a 24" threat range that WILL get focus fired to death. That's not to say grav cannons aren't the best. I just feel they are better used spread throughout tac squads with combi grav sergeants. My personal favourite for devs is a squad of lascannons and a squad of missile launchers. A fair amount cheaper but still a threat
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Lascannons and missile launchers are no longer a viable threat.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Please explain how they are not a viable threat?? They have always been a serious unit to consider in the games I have played
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

MonumentOfRibs wrote:
Please explain how they are not a viable threat?? They have always been a serious unit to consider in the games I have played


View everything Martel says through the filter of highly competitive play. He’s playing in the worst case scenario.

Assuming you face nothing but scatbikes and wraithknights, single shot weapons are not going to cut it. It takes too long to chew through either one, long before you generate the number of hits to kill them, you’ll be dead.

Even vs. tanks, if you are going to HP them out (the generally recommended way) you need more mid-quality shots, rather then few high-quality ones.

For that, the only imperial answer is grav. Nothing else we have can be fielded in the amount we need, with the ROF required.

---

All that said, I enjoy a 4xLC dev squad. I don’t play in such a competitive environment that they instantly evaporate, and they put a respectable amount of fire downrange. Works for me in my meta.

   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Even in a casual game, I find that they kill too slowly. 4 BS 4 lascannons, will not, on average, crack a Rhino.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/25 13:40:00


 
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

Martel732 wrote:
Even in a casual game, I find that they kill too slowly. 4 BS 4 lascannons, will not, on average, crack a Rhino.


With some buffs, they can do better. Even the re-rolls from doctrines (widely available) go a long way.

--

Looking at the options for dev squads:

HB - Low cost, low reward. Will mow down lightly armored xenos in the open. Not something most marine lists need more of. A little better for IF, as bolter drill helps accuracy, and S5 w/tank hunter can threaten light vehicles.

PC - Small blasts aren’t that great, gets hots can be problematic, can’t snap shot. As you are not normally going to get more then one guy under the template anyway, might as well spring for the LCs, for the extra S.

ML - Jack of all trades, "Meh” at everything. On the bright side, can kinda fake it at any job, albeit poorly.

LC - Single-shot AV might not be the best, but it’s the tool we have for the job. And you can always use more AV these days.

MM - Need to be close to work, Devs aren’t very mobile. If you have something to fix that (Skyhammer, CTDA captain) can be viable.

GC - Short range, but more mobile then any other option. Lots of shots, good at killing things that need to die. Crazy expensive on very fragile platform.

For the most part, 40k rewards specialization. So taking 4 of the same thing is the best bet. Mixing will make you more versatile, but worse at what you can achieve. If you do mix, make sure all the guns can work vs. the same target and range. Don’t mix things like HBs and LCs, or MMs and LCs. The last thing you want is some of your expensive gunners taking a break while half the squad gets to work. Not very efficient.

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Oh fair that sucks for him then. I would honestly hate to play in that kind of setting, and would probably be even more pessimistic if that was me.
The post above is pretty sweet for covering devs, and I agree with the not mixing weapons part unless you are space wolves.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




40K is the only community I know of where trying to do your best is viewed as weird and undesirable.

No matter how casual the game, lascannons and krak missiles fail to do their job. I guess in more casual games, you get to fire them more than once maybe.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/25 16:21:38


 
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

Martel732 wrote:
40K is the only community I know of where trying to do your best is viewed as weird and undesirable.

No matter how casual the game, lascannons and krak missiles fail to do their job. I guess in more casual games, you get to fire them more than once maybe.


40k works well when everyone is on the same page for what kind of game you want to play. The problem is that it encompasses such a wide range of power levels, that it's easy to get bad matchups. Which generally are not fun for anyone. Building a top end competitive list is not bad, but you just need to be sure that's the type of game both you and your opponent want to play.

If I brought my normal fluffy list to your area, I would be the one in the wrong. That's not the style of game you play.

YMMV, etc...

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I totally agree. My regular gaming buddy and I encourage each other to write non OP lists. There is zero fun in playing a scatterbike/wraithknight spam list, and there is zero fun in being tabled by it. At least for me anyways. And if one of the players isn't having fun, what is the point in playing?

On the flipside, if it is high end competitive tournament play you are going for, then that's cool too. It's just not everyone's cup of tea

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/26 11:15:56


 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




MonumentOfRibs wrote:
I totally agree. My regular gaming buddy and I encourage each other to write non OP lists. There is zero fun in playing a scatterbike/wraithknight spam list, and there is zero fun in being tabled by it. At least for me anyways. And if one of the players isn't having fun, what is the point in playing?

On the flipside, if it is high end competitive tournament play you are going for, then that's cool too. It's just not everyone's cup of tea


I'm not really going for it. It just kind of is for me.

Eldar players never seem to get bored of making players pack up.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




In that case I feel for you mate. I couldn't imagine playing a game where fun for both players wasn't the most important aspect
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




MonumentOfRibs wrote:
In that case I feel for you mate. I couldn't imagine playing a game where fun for both players wasn't the most important aspect


It's that hard to imagine gamers compensating for other things in their life?
   
Made in za
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





South Africa

I would definitely run grav Cannons

Facts are chains that bind perception and fetter truth. For a man can remake the world if he has a dream and no facts to cloud his mind. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

If you have the points, Grav Cannon.

If not, Missile Launchers.

DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Don't use missile launchers. Ever. AP3 is a bigger joke than ever on a heavy weapon. And, they are quite poor at taking out vehicles. They do nothing well at all.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/13 13:34:25


 
   
 
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