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Made in gb
Battleship Captain




Okay. So, the box set is not so amazing unless you want that specific combination of fighters - or can split it with something - but if you want to try just the game, the App from Black Library has all the rules and is available today.

~ You only need 1 fighter each, or else wings of 3-4. Every fighter is nominally equal to every other, so don't get hung up on specific types.
~ There are rule for any fighter currently in a codex (including the Vendetta, which got punted out of Death From The Skies, presumably because you can only make the model by applying a FW conversion kit to a GW model).
~ Go onto the relevant GW page and print off the datasheet for the fighter. Trust me, having this in front of you makes the game much easier to play. You don't need one sheet per fighter but you will want one for each class of fighter for quick reference of weapons and manoeuvres.
~ Leave the app on the damage table as (like BFG gunnery table) it's not something you're likely to memorise.

Slightly surprised not to see the Hive Crone and Harpy get rules - it's not like it would be difficult and there's no particular reason do ignore the Tyranids. This is WWI/WWII dogfighting, not supersonic speed cold war missile fights, so they'd be perfectly able to keep up.

(As an aside - if Tyranids want to play without coming up with house-ruled stats, I'd recommend modelling the Winged Hive Tyrant with Devourers as a Hades Autocannon Heldrake, and the Hive Crone as a Baleflamer Heldrake - ignore the tentaclids).


The game plays well. The lack of the ability to 'come about' in one turn (compared to X-wing) makes the fighters feel a little clunky but it picks up quickly. Damage is a weird mix - note that lousy shots can actually make things worse; damage results like "break left!" or "break right!" can result in someone having a shot back at you that they wouldn't have done if you hadn't fired; in one game we had a Razorwing belted in, emptied its disintegrators and splinter cannon into a Stormtalon, forcing it to dodge......which lined the (fixed forward) heavy bolters up with the dark eldar fighter and the heavy bolters turned the paper-thin jetfighter into abstract origami. Admittedly, the odds were against this (-1 to hit with head-on attacks, -1 to hit on 'return fire' snap shots, -1 to hit a dark eldar fighter at long range due to night shields meaning that a string of '6's were required) but it can and did happen, so be warned.

The game feels a bit X-wing esque in the 'set manouvres' and it has a very nice feel. Almost every race has something scarily impressive it can pull:

Eldar's party piece is the 'reverse' - a 135' turn during a move and the closest thing anyone has to an 'end around' without flying off the board and coming back on (which wastes a turn and can cause you damage).

Orks have 'Waaaggh!' (inevitably!) - four straight moves in a row, making them the fastest fighters in the game at any given power level. Combined with their ability to shoot at someone they overfly, they do a good line in long, straight strafing runs.

The Stormtalon has 'Vector Thrust' - the ability to do one move sideways, and in a slow speed turning fight it's probably the best in the game.




I'd love to see the various forgeworld fighters and gunships done for this game - most of them would be pretty easy to translate by basing them off existing fighters;

The Vulture, for example can essentially just be a Valkryie with alternate weapon options - although it'd be nice to give it 'Vector Thrust' instead of one of the other maneuvers (maybe swap out Overthrust, so it's slower in a dead run but more tricksy) just to give it a slightly different feel.

The Avenger is a pretty decent match for the Nephilim - the main gun is pretty much meant to be the same weapon. Just swap out aerial attack run for the stormhawk's heavy frontal armour and swap weapons around and you're pretty much good to go.

The Thunderbolt...... that'd need a bit of work. The Twin-Linked Lascannon stats are easy to copy, but the quad autocannons might take a bit of work. Probably basing them on a Heldrake's Hades is a decent start.



More interesting would be putting the 'big boys' in - rules for the Marauder, for example, would make for very cool bomber intercept missions! Technically you could put rules for the Manta in, although I think that may be pushing the definition of "dogfight" a bit. They were big enough in Aeronautica!

Equally, having rules for all the Horus Heresy era fighters would be nice as having dogfights to support a campaign on the ground is a nice idea.






Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Things like the Marauder, Raider, Tigershark, etc, would work better using the Epic / Aeronautica Imperialis models if you have them. Use centimetres instead of inches and have at it.

It also gives you a bit more room to let flights of three or four planes manoeuvre on the tabletop.

When it was announced on the Warhammer 40,000 (or White Dwarf) Facebook page, I asked about Forge World models, and they said they would be forthcoming ...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/30 17:20:49


 
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




Had a couple more games last night - A Stormtalon Gunship versus a Night Scythe, and two Night Scythes versus a pair of Dakkajets.

Space isn't really a problem. Distances are already scaled down to play on a 6'x4' board - you move in 'base lengths' (or 'base widths' if you're a Stormtalon sideslipping with a &@!>"$!!!! Vector Thrust* manoeuvre), and distances are already reduced for firing range (assault cannons and tesla weapons 10", super-shootas 15", etc).

Four fighters wheeling around worked fairly well. I didn't have much luck hurting the necrons, but I'm aware that's my own rolling; a Dakkajet with three supershootas using Long Uncontrolled Bursts gets 6 dice, needing '4's to hit. Repeatedly getting 1 damage is not exactly representative of the game rules**

Glad to hear forgeworld are going to put in their assorted flyers too. To be honest, you can make the Marauder an interesting ship even if it's essentially a 'mission objective' akin to an armed ground target, but if it's got its assorted turrets and insane ground attack bonus it should make for a good unit - just cap it at power two and give it a very restricted list of manoeuvres.

* Ahem. Sorry. A bit of unresolved angst there....
** Pretty representative of my dice rolling, though.

Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Backwoods bunker USA

We've also done 5 player FFA - it works, and is fun if you don't mind waiting abit for your turn.

We had Crimson Hunter, Razorwing, Vendetta, Dakka Jet, Nephilim.
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




That sounds like an interesting mix. Who came out on top in the end?

Razorwing versus Nephilim particularly looks like an interesting matchup - the Dark Angel fighter has the range advantage over almost everyone, but the Razorwing has Night Shields which mess with long-range fire, and the Nephilim has Aerial Attack Run.....but if you can draw a bead on an Eldar fighter with fixed weapons whilst flying straight and level, your opponent is Doing It Wrong.

We're looking at running "the big show" at our local store in the next couple of weeks.


Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Backwoods bunker USA

locarno24 wrote:
That sounds like an interesting mix. Who came out on top in the end?

Razorwing versus Nephilim particularly looks like an interesting matchup - the Dark Angel fighter has the range advantage over almost everyone, but the Razorwing has Night Shields which mess with long-range fire, and the Nephilim has Aerial Attack Run.....but if you can draw a bead on an Eldar fighter with fixed weapons whilst flying straight and level, your opponent is Doing It Wrong.

We're looking at running "the big show" at our local store in the next couple of weeks.



Nephilim got picked on and was downed early. Crimson Hunter was at full Stucture but got hit by Razorwing's fire with Falling Leaf, took a chance on Spin and crashed. Vendetta caused massive Critical on Razorwing, the latter caught on Fire and blew up. Ended up with Vendetta just Hover rotating and Dakkajet leaving the board in order to come back at angle. Dakkajet didn't make it back. Vendetta left standing.
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




...Yeah. My biggest concern with the game is the Vendetta/Valkyrie just parking in place and rotating back and forth like a turret. Will wait to see if that's as bad as I think it is.

Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




I've had a few one-on-one games to learn the rules, but we had our first go with the game 'en masse' last night.
Essentially a free for all, everyone deployed facing the centre of the board at Power 3. Anyone shot down rolled a scatter die and placed their power die at the point on the board edge indicated, moving on at whatever power they liked in the following impulse; the goal (in the finest deathmatch traditions) being to score as many kills as possible and to try not to die too much.



In addition to the above, a second Stormtalon joined in partway through the first turn. The total roster was:

~ Stormraven (Red) with Turret-Mounted Assault Cannons, Hurricane Bolters and Nose-Mounted Heavy Bolters
~ Stormraven (Black) with Turret-Mounted Assault Cannons and Nose-Mounted Multimeltas
~ Stormtalon (Red) with Six Skyhammer Missiles
~ Stormtalon (Black) with Typhoon Missile Launcher
~ Dakkajet with Three Twin-Linked Supa Shootas
~ Crimson Hunter
~ Doom Scythe
~ Razorwing Jetfighter with Four Monoscythe Missiles
~ Heldrake with Hades Autocannon (Proxied Hive Tyrant)

The game was really good fun and very bloody (with so many fighters in the sky and casualties respawning, pretty much everyone had an attack every turn).


The Stormravens made a big impression in the first impulse - those 30" range Stormstrikes mean you've got a good opening punch; one of them winging each of the Eldar flyers. The Night Shields on the Razorwing helped keep it from taking too much damage, but the Crimson Hunter took a couple of nasty hits. The black Stormraven powered courageously into the centre of the board - which as everyone who's ever played a free-for-all knows, is about the worst thing you can do as everyone immediately lines up on you as an easy target. This time-honoured tradition continued here unabated.....


Whilst ending up with the Blaze Of Glory award for being shot down the most, it's hard to criticise the Ork Dakkajet pilot. He did enough damage that - had it not been spread across several fighters - he'd probably have got at least one kill, overflying everyone and delivering both strafing runs and classic orky "Flyin' 'Eadbutt" attacks with accidental collisions. In fact the first 'kill' of the game was his attempted strafing run across the black Stormraven - shooting it for a small amount of damage, avoiding it as he overflew it, but suddenly finding the Crimson Hunter coming the other way on the far side and plowing into it head-first at some speed. The Dakkajet had several structure points left. The Crimson Hunter, having taken a Stormstrike volley and a bad danger roll, didn't, and bits of it pattered harmlessly into the flank of the Stormraven as the Dakkajet crashed through it.



The Stormravens are definitely contenders for 'toughest thing in the sky'. The Doom Scythe had been tailing it for a couple of activations - hammering it with Death Ray and Tesla fire. It lined up again, and caused a 'Flying Debris' result; another structure point off the Stormraven, but also a structure point off the attacker if they are tailing within 5". This was a bit of a blow as the Doom Scythe had lost four structure itself and was on its last hit point - a large chunk of the Stormraven's tailplane was sliced cleanly off and pinwheeled back, embedding itself in the cockpit of the Necron flyer and smashing it out of the sky.

To add injury to insult, the Razorwing on the right in the first picture then pulled a Reverse manoeuvre and lined up its splinter cannon and dark lances, hoping to finish the Space Marine flyer off and cheekily steal the kill....and got another Flying Debris result, winging it, too. Fortunately it was more or less intact and survived the hit, but clearly flying behind a steadily disintegrating gunship is not an especially safe pastime.

Despite the punishment, the Stormraven managed to survive long enough to pull a Stall Turn (losing yet another structure to a failed Danger Roll) and lining up on the Crimson Hunter, blowing it out of the sky before finally getting taken down by the increasingly frustrated Razorwing.




The game was really, really good fun. Thoughts on the individual fighters:

Stormraven: Damn - these things take some killing. However, they do turn like a cow at medium to high speeds. I would suggest, in hindsight, either sticking to low speeds (Power 2-3) or ramming the throttle right through the gate to Power 5 (only an option if you've not taken Hurricane Bolters). You're even less manoeuvrable at Power 5, but at least you get to do two moves chained together in the majority of activations, so you can get your nose around, albeit in very large circles. Hurricanes are very effective, but you want to fly slower than maximum power if you've got them, so you've got a fighting chance of pulling off Stall Turns - your only real option for rapid manoeuvre. The Stormstrike Missiles are good - I'd use them as a throwaway weapon for a first pass on a gunship with Hurricane Bolters. Your other guns mostly only reach out to 10", so you're likely to be firing the Stormstrikes only - you might as well fire off the lot of them as they need a 5+ to hit. If you haven't taken sponsons, then hang on to them to fire alongside your other guns to try and rack up enough damage to get a Copped It! or Riddled result.

Razorwing/Crimson Hunter: Agile and Fragile. The lances on these things are precise and they hurt. With Power 6, they dance around the board like crazy, and Reverse is amazing - Level Flight then Reverse dropped them in Tailing a target so many times. The Razorwing's Night Shields didn't do too much, but that's more a feature of a big free-for-all than a problem with the rules - the sky is so crowded everyone's usually firing at short range where they don't do anything. They did pointedly stop a Stormstrike hit in the first attack of the game, though, turning what would have been a Copped It! result into a minor Engine Damage critical. Missiles for the Razorwing are an interesting choice; I would recommend firing Monoscythes the moment you've got a shot with them (needing a 3+ to hit you can realistically use them Head-On) whilst Shatterfields are probably best reserved to be fired in pairs along with your energy weapons once* you get on someone's tail (because despite the same average damage they need a 5+ to hit so a +1 or -1 makes a much bigger difference) - you only need fire 2 against most opponents because if you can tail someone you should get three-and-a-bit damage easily off your regular guns - firing off all four Shatterfield Missiles is probably wasting damage against a lot of opponents.

* If you can't get onto someone's tail in a Dark Eldar interceptor then I humbly suggest You're Doing It Wrong.

Heldrake: Nearly as tough as the Stormravens and much scarier at close quarters with those talons. It only got a rake off twice, but both times really hurt - overflying the Stormtalon, causing one point of damage with the Collision (admittedly to both) and then delivering two more damage and a Fire! critical with the talons. The fight was slightly unrepresentative of a Heldrake's normal capabilities as it was very slow in this game - the Hive Tyrant being used was on a smaller base, which (since base lengths are used for movement) cut into its speed.

Dakkajet: Unsubtle but brilliant fun. One thing to note; the game's 'impulses' represent quick snapshots of time - a single manoeuvre and a snap burst of fire. Flyers only move a couple of times their own base length and come round 45' or so. Except, of course, for this thing. In its most impressive strafing run, the Dakkajet (which had finally got up to Speed 5 - taking triple shootas really cuts into your ability to accelerate) pulled off two Waaaggh! manoeuvres in sequence, zooming up 2/3 of the length of the board and shooting the hell out of the red Stormtalon which thought it was safely out of the fight.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/21 13:13:16


Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in au
Steadfast Grey Hunter




Good writeup. This actually looks kinda fun.
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




It is - I'd strongly recommend giving it a try....

Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Backwoods bunker USA

The less agile aircraft actually do better flying at Power 5 so as to get 2 Maneuvers per Impulse.

The more agile aircraft do better at Power 3 so as to be able to "green" their more difficult Maneuvers.

Flying off the board so as to come back in facing the other direction (even when risking Damage) is also a tactic that the less agile aircraft need to employ.

The Vendetta is deadly but we've now learned to use the fly off the board tactic, and to approach it at an angle. It isn't very durable once it starts taking hits.
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




The less agile aircraft actually do better flying at Power 5 so as to get 2 Maneuvers per Impulse.


For Dakkajets, definitely - with 15" range long guns and All Guns Blazing allowing for overshoots, range isn't too much of an issue. I've not used the Space Wolf flyers yet, but the Stormraven sometimes needs that lower speed - it's got short-range guns (the hurricanes and assault cannons) and getting them into both arc and range can be trouble. I guess I'm biased since the Stormraven I was using can't get up to power 5 anyway - you top out at power 4 if you take hurricane sponsons.

I agree flying slow with the Eldar fighters takes away the risk with their better moves, but don't underestimate the extent they can dance by throwing out Bank/Reverse chained or some similar ridiculousness - it's rare they'd need to do more than one danger roll in a row, and speed 6 lets them get their licks in first.

Flying off the board so as to come back in facing the other direction (even when risking Damage) is also a tactic that the less agile aircraft need to employ.

It is, frankly, not massively more dangerous than pulling a couple of stall turns in a row - especially since you can't be shot at during at least one impulse. It's just that you forfeit your own shooting for a couple of impulses and are a bit predictable. Still, it's very useful - I suspect especially for dakkajets, who want to turn the game into a series of long slashing attacks...

The Vendetta is deadly but we've now learned to use the fly off the board tactic, and to approach it at an angle. It isn't very durable once it starts taking hits.

Good to hear it. I figured the door heavy bolters were more to make the pilot feel better than to actually achieve much in practice.... I just didn't want it to end up being a flying pillbox in a game of maneuver.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/22 07:57:41


Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




I heard there were rules for playing campaigns. Is that true?

If so, has anybody started one yet?
   
Made in us
Battleship Captain




We're looking at running a "Deff Skwadron" campaign at our local store - essentially many-on-many games, complete with missions straight out of the comics. Everyone provides one ork flyer - Dakkajet, Burna-Bomma, Blitza-Bomma or Blastajet - and can gain experience as the campaign goes on. All games will be either teams or many-on-many.... It is orks, after all.

Terrain/Props already earmarked for construction for:
~ Big Skrap Alley
~ Sink Da Grimlug
~ Da Seykret Weapun
~ Catch Da Squidgeon

Also - Forgeworld have confirmed they have no plans to update their own flyers to Stormcloud Attack any time soon. Boooooo.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/27 13:09:16


Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
 
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