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GW is writing for all three formats. People keep forgetting that I think.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

Davor wrote:

 Haechi wrote:
Her Amphora of Souls is borderline useless in competitive.

Uh Oh. It has started now. Stuff not worth taking anymore.

Not really. Its true that summoning was nerfed into the ground, which makes your statement SLIGHTLY true for a handful of units, but its for the good of the game where wide-open summoning would have broken the whole idea of Matched Play.

Everything else, summoners included are still fine, and playable.

I am sorry I have to strongly disagree here. Why did the rule needed to be changed? Do guns kill? No they do not. Do knives kill? No they do not. It's the people who use them and it's the people who should be held responsible for the abuse. Just because it's their doesn't mean you have to do it. I don't know, Donkey Cave comes to mind for anyone who would do this.

That said, it just goes to show you how PATHETIC we are that a rule like that needed to be changed. Again, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

auticus wrote:GW is writing for all three formats. People keep forgetting that I think.

Ah, and what people are forgetting is Unbound. Stop throwing that in people's face. Are you going to champion the cause if people only play with points only? No you wont. Why do people have to keep bringing this up? You know well that since you wanted to make a point, someone else will also want to make a point to counter your point. Now we are just running in circles. This has nothing to do with there are two other ways of playing. If there are two other ways of playing then why is it brought up in the first place when someone said "competitive setting". This doesn't apply to the other two ways of playing. So hence yes it's perfectly example of why UNITS ARE USELESS NOW.

I was more referring to this line when I wrote my reply:

The joke here is that the Sylvaneth book was - at worst - written with the GHB in mind, if not in tandem.

I'm bringing it up because when people say something is worthless, there is a giant hidden meaning afterward that should say "in competitive play", and thats how internet wisdoms starts, and I don't really want to see internet meta dominate the game again. Not that I think I can actually stop that but... I'll do my little part.

RoperPG wrote:
What makes the Amphora of souls a pain in the jacksie is that it summons a unit of >random number<.
Dryads have to come in multiples of 10 via points, Revenants in multiples of 5.
So you summon your dryads, roll snake eyes, and have lost 8 dryad's worth of points.
Or, just as crappy, you roll 11. Yay! So that's two dryad units' points used.

The joke here is that the Sylvaneth book was - at worst - written with the GHB in mind, if not in tandem.
Why tone down an ability when you're introducing mechanics to tone it down? As what you have now is an ability that will get used a reasonable amount in open play, and will be an oddity in competitive because the chance of actually getting what you paid for is low.

I actually think that you could argue it WAS written with the GHB in mind. Most random abilities, you take what you roll good bad or indifferent. With Alarielle's ability you are able to CHOOSE a lower result than what you actually rolled. So in competitive play, you may put aside the points for a Treelord (although probably not given the low chance of it happening) and just treat it as more healing most of the time. This is actually a strong choice, given that it heals her (so she heals 2D3 wounds per phase) and has a 30" bubble so in combination with the huge amount of durablility built into the faction this is a great ability. Additionally, Spirits of Durthu are able to absorb hits directed at Alarielle, and can then be healed by her ability, so I would suggest that even if the summoning was free a significant portion of the time you actually would choose to use the healing option in preference.

In narrative or open play, go nuts with the summoning.

My issue is that the vast majority of summoning abilities to date have summoned multiples of the minimum-sized units.

Summoning did / does have the potential to be abused, and I'm fine with how the GHB has amended it.

So why reduce the basic potential of summoning *outside* of the new limitations?
As has been said above, Alarielle's summoning will now effectively become"hope for a tree Lord, go with heal" because there is too much risk involved in using it the way it appears to have been intended.

What about Alarielles ability to create a Wildwood by killing a unit with her spell? Or Durthu's ability to create a Wildwood? Would you have to pay points for these as well?

I mean my problem with that is, how much these summoning abilities are factoring into the points value of each model. At that point, two of Alarielle's abilities aren't being used as intended. Drycha does FAR more mortal wounds with her abiltiies; A main benefit is spawning an extra wood. I am fine with them nerfing summoning, but only if that factors into the points cost of every model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Alarielle automatically heals D3 wounds. But, if she also uses her Amophor (spelling! ) to "heal all Sylvaneth units within 30''". Well, would that include her as well? Since she is a Sylvaneth unit within 30 of that ability going off. So she is healing 2D3 wounds a turn constantly if you don't take any summoned units?

The wyldwood warscroll does not have a point value in the generals handbook and the old warscroll has been removed from the app. I believe the only way to get them in the game is via allegiance and model "set-up" abilities now, but without a points cost I do not think you are indended to pay points for them.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
What about Alarielles ability to create a Wildwood by killing a unit with her spell? Or Durthu's ability to create a Wildwood? Would you have to pay points for these as well?

I mean my problem with that is, how much these summoning abilities are factoring into the points value of each model. At that point, two of Alarielle's abilities aren't being used as intended. Drycha does FAR more mortal wounds with her abiltiies; A main benefit is spawning an extra wood. I am fine with them nerfing summoning, but only if that factors into the points cost of every model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Alarielle automatically heals D3 wounds. But, if she also uses her Amophor (spelling! ) to "heal all Sylvaneth units within 30''". Well, would that include her as well? Since she is a Sylvaneth unit within 30 of that ability going off. So she is healing 2D3 wounds a turn constantly if you don't take any summoned units?

Wildwoods have 0 points cost.

As with her heal, yes. She could choose herself and heal another d3. She is the goddess of Life magic after all