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 Jaxler wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Speaking of various shades of ad mech

its also possible the Tau can fall from within due to their AI use.

its possible they can go full men of iron.

if there is any hope for them, it may be the eldar pushing them to do a thing. but i dont trust knife ears.

I don't know. From what I've seen the tau have certain level of ethicacy when dealing with their AIs. I doubt you'd ever see them uprise.

Its the nature of AI in SciFi settings.

(handwaviuming intensified)

 EnTyme wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
It seems very out of character for the Tau not to recon the area first with stealth missions. Especially given the fact that they have sensor technology good enough to detect an Imperial Assassin. The people they send to knock out the rogue Arch Magos and other people who are thought impossible.

Edit
Calling it. Tau are going to develop a Warlord killer armor of their own. Next campaign book after this. Also a super heavy tank with titan scale weaponry to bolster their titan legions on the cheap.

Meh! The AdMec would just dig up some old Imperator Titans and play a game of "What Does This Button Do?" until no more Tau were left to destroy.

And when we have built a suit that surpasses even metal gear... I mean the emperor class of titans? What will you do then? Most people don't realize this but the Tau engineer who designed the supremacy armor knew it would be their first level project since the Ethereals specifically asked him to design a series of titan class platforms. Official FW lore with the ta'unar supremacy armor. It is inevitable. Also the sales were crazy insane on Ta'unar to the point that there were was a month long delay making them for people before more people could get them.

I think you are over estimating the Tau in that regard. They've been fighting the Imperium for Centuries, and are only now rolling out things equivalent to Imperial Knights and Warhounds. They don't even have a Reaver equivalent yet, nevermind a Warlord.

 Crazyterran wrote:
I think you are over estimating the Tau in that regard. They've been fighting the Imperium for Centuries, and are only now rolling out things equivalent to Imperial Knights and Warhounds. They don't even have a Reaver equivalent yet, nevermind a Warlord.

I think your underestimating sales power. Our greatest trump card except for like a few other factions who can trump even us.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
I think you are over estimating the Tau in that regard. They've been fighting the Imperium for Centuries, and are only now rolling out things equivalent to Imperial Knights and Warhounds. They don't even have a Reaver equivalent yet, nevermind a Warlord.

I think your underestimating sales power. Our greatest trump card except for like a few other factions who can trump even us.

Wait, so why are they selling well if the ITC nerfed them so hard? Shouldn't people be dumping them left and right? Oh wait....

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
I think you are over estimating the Tau in that regard. They've been fighting the Imperium for Centuries, and are only now rolling out things equivalent to Imperial Knights and Warhounds. They don't even have a Reaver equivalent yet, nevermind a Warlord.

I think your underestimating sales power. Our greatest trump card except for like a few other factions who can trump even us.

Wait, so why are they selling well if the ITC nerfed them so hard? Shouldn't people be dumping them left and right? Oh wait....

Because the vast minority of players use ITC rules?

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
I think you are over estimating the Tau in that regard. They've been fighting the Imperium for Centuries, and are only now rolling out things equivalent to Imperial Knights and Warhounds. They don't even have a Reaver equivalent yet, nevermind a Warlord.

I think your underestimating sales power. Our greatest trump card except for like a few other factions who can trump even us.

Wait, so why are they selling well if the ITC nerfed them so hard? Shouldn't people be dumping them left and right? Oh wait....

How is this relevant to the conversation? Is say your poking a bee hive here. Frankly, bringing up ITC tau nerfs when they're not even part of the topic is more pr less you provoking drama even if it's not intentional. I'd rather this not derail. If you want to talk about the Itc and tau please just go read one of the old threads, necro one, or start a new one.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
I think you are over estimating the Tau in that regard. They've been fighting the Imperium for Centuries, and are only now rolling out things equivalent to Imperial Knights and Warhounds. They don't even have a Reaver equivalent yet, nevermind a Warlord.

I think your underestimating sales power. Our greatest trump card except for like a few other factions who can trump even us.

I think you're overestimated their access to the sheer resources and manpower needed to build a true titan, and forgetting that the AdMech have entire planets devoted to building them. I don't doubt the Tau's ability to develop technology, I doubt their ability to produce it in the quantities it would take to actual matter to an empire of trillions.

 EnTyme wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
I think you are over estimating the Tau in that regard. They've been fighting the Imperium for Centuries, and are only now rolling out things equivalent to Imperial Knights and Warhounds. They don't even have a Reaver equivalent yet, nevermind a Warlord.

I think your underestimating sales power. Our greatest trump card except for like a few other factions who can trump even us.

I think you're overestimated their access to the sheer resources and manpower needed to build a true titan, and forgetting that the AdMech have entire planets devoted to building them. I don't doubt the Tau's ability to develop technology, I doubt their ability to produce it in the quantities it would take to actual matter to an empire of trillions.

If only the Imperium could remember how anything worked...

Aren't Emperor class titans usually built on site and are generally not transported?.

though regardless, 2-3 full chapters coming in would and could woop tau really hard. especially if they went full extermnautus. (aka nuke it from orbit)

they dont need titans.

but that would never happen as they dont consider tau enough of a threat.

especially if they are getting AOSed by some one else.

 Desubot wrote:
Aren't Emperor class titans usually built on site and are generally not transported?.

though regardless, 2-3 full chapters coming in would and could woop tau really hard. especially if they went full extermnautus. (aka nuke it from orbit)

they dont need titans.

but that would never happen as they dont consider tau enough of a threat.

especially if they are getting AOSed by some one else.

They tried the nuking from orbit. It doesn't work so well when we have planetary shields. Once those go down though they can nuke the area not shielded, but being Tau we have multiple redundant shield systems. Also they did send some chapters after us in the Damocles books and they lost twice. And a huge crusade and probably a 100 IK's as well, company of super heavy tanks. 4 assassins, and a partridge in a pear tree.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Aren't Emperor class titans usually built on site and are generally not transported?.

though regardless, 2-3 full chapters coming in would and could woop tau really hard. especially if they went full extermnautus. (aka nuke it from orbit)

they dont need titans.

but that would never happen as they dont consider tau enough of a threat.

especially if they are getting AOSed by some one else.

They tried the nuking from orbit. It doesn't work so well when we have planetary shields. Once those go down though they can nuke the area not shielded, but being Tau we have multiple redundant shield systems. Also they did send some chapters after us in the Damocles books and they lost twice. And a huge crusade and probably a 100 IK's as well, company of super heavy tanks. 4 assassins, and a partridge in a pear tree.

Do the shields work against physical objects?

 Jaxler wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
I think you are over estimating the Tau in that regard. They've been fighting the Imperium for Centuries, and are only now rolling out things equivalent to Imperial Knights and Warhounds. They don't even have a Reaver equivalent yet, nevermind a Warlord.

I think your underestimating sales power. Our greatest trump card except for like a few other factions who can trump even us.

Wait, so why are they selling well if the ITC nerfed them so hard? Shouldn't people be dumping them left and right? Oh wait....

How is this relevant to the conversation? Is say your poking a bee hive here. Frankly, bringing up ITC tau nerfs when they're not even part of the topic is more pr less you provoking drama even if it's not intentional. I'd rather this not derail. If you want to talk about the Itc and tau please just go read one of the old threads, necro one, or start a new one.

I think it's totally relevant. Gamgee says that Tau are selling like crazy, which is at odds with his and others' claims that ITC nerfed them into the ground. Seeing that ITC is one of the largest rulesets used at tournaments, this is at odds with his claims.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Aren't Emperor class titans usually built on site and are generally not transported?.

though regardless, 2-3 full chapters coming in would and could woop tau really hard. especially if they went full extermnautus. (aka nuke it from orbit)

they dont need titans.

but that would never happen as they dont consider tau enough of a threat.

especially if they are getting AOSed by some one else.

They tried the nuking from orbit. It doesn't work so well when we have planetary shields. Once those go down though they can nuke the area not shielded, but being Tau we have multiple redundant shield systems. Also they did send some chapters after us in the Damocles books and they lost twice. And a huge crusade and probably a 100 IK's as well, company of super heavy tanks. 4 assassins, and a partridge in a pear tree.

Well obviously they are not going to just straight nuke a shield.
and is why i said 2-3 chapters. the smurfs clearly failed by them selves. and i dont recall was it the whole chapter or a few companies. (honestly dont recall never got the damocles book)
also since IIRC smurfs also was dealing with nids too.

pm713 wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Aren't Emperor class titans usually built on site and are generally not transported?.

though regardless, 2-3 full chapters coming in would and could woop tau really hard. especially if they went full extermnautus. (aka nuke it from orbit)

they dont need titans.

but that would never happen as they dont consider tau enough of a threat.

especially if they are getting AOSed by some one else.

They tried the nuking from orbit. It doesn't work so well when we have planetary shields. Once those go down though they can nuke the area not shielded, but being Tau we have multiple redundant shield systems. Also they did send some chapters after us in the Damocles books and they lost twice. And a huge crusade and probably a 100 IK's as well, company of super heavy tanks. 4 assassins, and a partridge in a pear tree.

Do the shields work against physical objects?

No, but I'm assuming that starships do, and anything that could simply avoid being blown up by star ships probably would be so big and time intensive and expensive to properly make mobile that I question if it would be worth it. You'd essentially be killing a planet by throwing a planet at them. Where is the gain in this?

 jreilly89 wrote:

I think it's totally relevant. Gamgee says that Tau are selling like crazy, which is at odds with his and others' claims that ITC nerfed them into the ground. Seeing that ITC is one of the largest rulesets used at tournaments, this is at odds with his claims.

Only if the majority of players use ITC rules.

They don't. Move on.

 Desubot wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Aren't Emperor class titans usually built on site and are generally not transported?.

though regardless, 2-3 full chapters coming in would and could woop tau really hard. especially if they went full extermnautus. (aka nuke it from orbit)

they dont need titans.

but that would never happen as they dont consider tau enough of a threat.

especially if they are getting AOSed by some one else.

They tried the nuking from orbit. It doesn't work so well when we have planetary shields. Once those go down though they can nuke the area not shielded, but being Tau we have multiple redundant shield systems. Also they did send some chapters after us in the Damocles books and they lost twice. And a huge crusade and probably a 100 IK's as well, company of super heavy tanks. 4 assassins, and a partridge in a pear tree.

Well obviously they are not going to just straight nuke a shield.
and is why i said 2-3 chapters. the smurfs clearly failed by them selves. and i dont recall was it the whole chapter or a few companies. (honestly dont recall never got the damocles book)
also since IIRC smurfs also was dealing with nids too.

The smurfs didn't lose in Damocles, they fought to a standstill and then decided the 'Nids were a bigger threat and just kind of left.

 EnTyme wrote:


The smurfs didn't lose in Damocles, they fought to a standstill and then decided the 'Nids were a bigger threat and just kind of left.

Mk thanks

 Jaxler wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Aren't Emperor class titans usually built on site and are generally not transported?.

though regardless, 2-3 full chapters coming in would and could woop tau really hard. especially if they went full extermnautus. (aka nuke it from orbit)

they dont need titans.

but that would never happen as they dont consider tau enough of a threat.

especially if they are getting AOSed by some one else.

They tried the nuking from orbit. It doesn't work so well when we have planetary shields. Once those go down though they can nuke the area not shielded, but being Tau we have multiple redundant shield systems. Also they did send some chapters after us in the Damocles books and they lost twice. And a huge crusade and probably a 100 IK's as well, company of super heavy tanks. 4 assassins, and a partridge in a pear tree.

Do the shields work against physical objects?

No, but I'm assuming that starships do, and anything that could simply avoid being blown up by star ships probably would be so big and time intensive and expensive to properly make mobile that I question if it would be worth it. You'd essentially be killing a planet by throwing a planet at them. Where is the gain in this?

I was thinking of Cyclonic Torpedo's.

 insaniak wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

I think it's totally relevant. Gamgee says that Tau are selling like crazy, which is at odds with his and others' claims that ITC nerfed them into the ground. Seeing that ITC is one of the largest rulesets used at tournaments, this is at odds with his claims.

Only if the majority of players use ITC rules.

They don't. Move on.

It's not a majority, but the Las Vegas Open, the Bay Area Open, parts of Canada and Europe all use the ITC rules. It's at least a 1/3, I'd argue.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/community/frontline-gamings-independent-tournament-circuit/

I'm not talking Damocles Mk1 I'm talking Damocles Mk2 the campaign books from last year. They used something more powerful than a cyclonic torpedo. Something so powerful it nuked an entire region of space, but there was one planetary shield left on the planet and the Tau base/city/region under it survived as did the Tau.

The Ravenguard and White Scars were deployed mostly in full and at the same time they had hundreds of billions of guardsmen and weaponry. Super heavy tanks, skitarri war cohorts, gigantic fleets, hundreds of IK's, the 4 assassins, tank regiments, and a super heavy tank company. The strange exterminatus device which is the strongest ever used only managed to draw the front to a stale mate. However as of the conclusion of the two tooks the Tau took 4 planets and partially lost one. The IoM is now in full defense mode because they expended such high casualties they can't afford to launch any more crusades at the Tau. Which means they fethed up bad and only through tech priest heresy did they manage to stall the Tau.

The high lords of terra created this massive crusade. One of the largest in recent history and the Tau defeated it at a high cost. They lost probably 40% of the entire Tau Empire/Farsight Enclaves military, but they broke the IoM. If it wasn't for deus ex machina they would have pursued them. IoM is setting up every planet to be a heavily defended fortress world in the region because they know its only a matter of time until the Tau return and they lack the regional resources to attack.

They lost hardcore to one Tau planet and half of the Tau army/navy.

Edit
Did it ever occur to you they sell because they look cool? No one even plays me anymore and I bought my Taunar just to have. I mean if someone wants to have a challenge game sure but mostly because its awesome looking. Also the Taunar isn't banned, but all gargantuan and SHV that have a D blast over a certain size are. So if it were to get a new weapon that fires multiple d shots not in a blast over that size it would not be banned. Which it is because we seen the new heavy rail gun array and meteor missile system variants.

Sounds like fanfic to me...

So Tau lost almost half their fighting power to a great deal less than that? Doesn't sound so great to me.

pm713 wrote:
Sounds like fanfic to me...

So Tau lost almost half their fighting power to a great deal less than that? Doesn't sound so great to me.

Nah Tau were vastly vastly vastly outnumbered. Would have lost if Farsight didn't show up and Mont'ka the IoM back to the stone ages. Oh we lost our one Ethereal character. Oh no. That was sarcasm.

 Gamgee wrote:
I'm not talking Damocles Mk1 I'm talking Damocles Mk2 the campaign books from last year. They used something more powerful than a cyclonic torpedo. Something so powerful it nuked an entire region of space, but there was one planetary shield left on the planet and the Tau base/city/region under it survived as did the Tau.

The Ravenguard and White Scars were deployed mostly in full and at the same time they had hundreds of billions of guardsmen and weaponry. Super heavy tanks, skitarri war cohorts, gigantic fleets, hundreds of IK's, the 4 assassins, tank regiments, and a super heavy tank company. The strange exterminatus device which is the strongest ever used only managed to draw the front to a stale mate. However as of the conclusion of the two tooks the Tau took 4 planets and partially lost one. The IoM is now in full defense mode because they expended such high casualties they can't afford to launch any more crusades at the Tau. Which means they fethed up bad and only through tech priest heresy did they manage to stall the Tau.

The high lords of terra created this massive crusade. One of the largest in recent history and the Tau defeated it at a high cost. They lost probably 40% of the entire Tau Empire/Farsight Enclaves military, but they broke the IoM. If it wasn't for deus ex machina they would have pursued them. IoM is setting up every planet to be a heavily defended fortress world in the region because they know its only a matter of time until the Tau return and they lack the regional resources to attack.

They lost hardcore to one Tau planet and half of the Tau army/navy.

So a couple fringe elements of two (not even full strength) legions were defeated by the Tau? I'd hardly say they broke the IoM. They've done squat compared to Horus. When the Tau come to Terra and actually step foot near the Golden Throne, then they'll have done something. As of now, the Tau are fly compared to the IoM.

Oh we also killed the Ravenguard chapter master. We'll get the others in time and the others they send at us.

You are right if the Imperium ever sent like a quarter of its manpower it would wipe us out, but it can't. And its manpower in the Damocles Gulf is exhausted leaving them open to attacks from other forces and future attacks from us meaning the region has more or less been destabilized to the point they might lose it. I have a feeling in the future of 40k the next warzone between Tau and IoM will be Ultramar. At some point the Tau will reach a size where they will be all but unstoppable since no crusade could kill them barring one by the Emperor himself.

 Gamgee wrote:
Oh we also killed the Ravenguard chapter master. We'll get the others in time and the others they send at us.

You are right if the Imperium ever sent like a quarter of its manpower it would wipe us out, but it can't. And its manpower in the Damocles Gulf is exhausted leaving them open to attacks from other forces and future attacks from us meaning the region has more or less been destabilized to the point they might lose it. I have a feeling in the future of 40k the next warzone between Tau and IoM will be Ultramar. At some point the Tau will reach a size where they will be all but unstoppable since no crusade could kill them barring one by the Emperor himself.

Yeah, sure. As soon as the Lion or Guilliman or Khan or any of the Primarchs come back, take the seat, and unite the IoM, they're gonna stomp all over the Xenos. Besides, Tyranids, Orks, and Necrons are bigger threats than Tau. Tau are just hiding in a corner of the universe.

 Gamgee wrote:
Oh we also killed the Ravenguard chapter master. We'll get the others in time and the others they send at us.

You are right if the Imperium ever sent like a quarter of its manpower it would wipe us out, but it can't. And its manpower in the Damocles Gulf is exhausted leaving them open to attacks from other forces and future attacks from us meaning the region has more or less been destabilized to the point they might lose it. I have a feeling in the future of 40k the next warzone between Tau and IoM will be Ultramar. At some point the Tau will reach a size where they will be all but unstoppable since no crusade could kill them barring one by the Emperor himself.

Congratulations you killed a largely insignificant Chapter Master and lost your species leader in return. Very well done.

The "no crusade except one by the Emperor" is a bit rubbish. You aren't going to reach a point where you're that strong. That's like saying Eldar would be the single most powerful force in the galaxy if they united.

 Gamgee wrote:
Did it ever occur to you they sell because they look cool? No one even plays me anymore and I bought my Taunar just to have. I mean if someone wants to have a challenge game sure but mostly because its awesome looking. Also the Taunar isn't banned, but all gargantuan and SHV that have a D blast over a certain size are. So if it were to get a new weapon that fires multiple d shots not in a blast over that size it would not be banned. Which it is because we seen the new heavy rail gun array and meteor missile system variants.

ITC ban all Titan class units, which the Ta'unar is (shares a similar statline to the Tyranid Hierophant). Under current rules, it's never going to be allowed in an ITC event.

As for what I think will happen, they'll give them plot armour that allows their fledgling empire to develop while Chaos and the Imperium go to war. Possibly with relentless interference from the Orks, Ghaz in particular.

 Gamgee wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Sounds like fanfic to me...

So Tau lost almost half their fighting power to a great deal less than that? Doesn't sound so great to me.

Nah Tau were vastly vastly vastly outnumbered. Would have lost if Farsight didn't show up and Mont'ka the IoM back to the stone ages. Oh we lost our one Ethereal character. Oh no. That was sarcasm.

first of all stop refering to Tau as "we" you're a human being playing a war game with plastic soldiers. secondly I don't think you understand how unwinnable the situation is for the Tau. the IoM could literally destroy every Tau held or Tau contested world, and not even feel it. (they don't because the Tau are seen as an irriatant that can be handled conventionally as soon as time and resources permit) losing a world for the Tau is a problem. losing a world for the IoM is an ACCOUNTING error. whats the kill ratio of a Tau Firewarrior vs a guardsman? unless every firewarrior can kill hundreds of thousands of guardsmen before he bites it? it's a losing battle. furthermore on a strategic level the Tau are outmatched. the Imperial Navy has faster ships then the Tau and more of them. even if we assume the latest Tau Cruiser is better then it's IN contemporaries. they don't have eneugh of them. to defeat the Tau all the IoM would have to do is send it's fleets ranging hitting and destroying worlds inside the Tau empire. they'd be unable to respond in a timely fashion.

Yes, you killed a Chapter Master we'd NEVER heard of before. Sounds rather like a case of Redshirt Death, if you ask me.

But Aun'Va? Supreme Ethereal, holding the actual Empire together? That's a big issue, and shows that not even the Ethereals are safe from the Imperial's wrath.

Tau are insignificant as they are. There are plenty worse races that threaten the Imperium - Orks, Eldar, Hrud, Loxatl, Slaugth, Barghesi. Hell, the Slaugth even occupy an area of space similar to the Tau. And the Barghesi are so deadly, they have an entire Chapter dedicated to guarding against them - can the Tau say likewise?