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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/02 18:07:06
Subject: [STAW Classic OP 2: The Search For Spock Battle Report]
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Abel
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OK, I have to remember to take pictures at these things! and collect the actual fleets lists I faced! Gah! So sorry guys. I'm just going to discuss my fleet, and the fleets I encountered. My venue plays fleet pure, meaning all your ships must come from the same faction. 50 points max (the tournament suggested rules), three ship minimum. We also didn't have any Blind Boosters left, so we built to 130 points. 10 people showed up. My fleet:
Faction: Romulan
Scimitar
Shinzon
-Elite Talents Counter Attack, Target Weapon Systems, Coordinated Attack, Direct Command
Romulan Helmsman
50 points
IRW Valdore
Donatra
IRW Haakona
Salatrel
Disruptor Beams
Resource: Tactics, and we also play that we can use the resource that comes with the OP that night for free- that was the Emergency Power Card
My "Side board"- I was trying to be somewhat thematic, so I used Spock, Savak, 3x Red Shirts, and finally, because there is no Dr. Carl Markus, I just threw in Seven of Nine, because, well, she is a babe. Turns out those Red Shirts were the single most important cards I could have thrown in there...
Game 1: Dominion Fleet, with Officer Exchange: Federation. Yes, Officer Exchange retired on 30 June, and this tournament was on 1 July, but this kid (late teenager) made his fleet in June or some nonsense and the TO let him... So... whatever. LOL Dom 4th Div Battleship, Dom 3rd Div Cruiser, and Dom Fighters with all the upgrades. And with Fed Captains/Crew, well, you can see where this is going. Technically, this guy violated the three ship minimum rule and used an out of date resource as well. And he tried to use his fighters as the ship next to the Genesis Planet, at which time I had to point out Fighters are not ship... anyways, it was a really slow game, I managed to blow up his cruiser, rescue everyone on the planet, and then time was called. I won based on fleet points.
Game 2: Deep Space Nine (!?!) with some Photons, and generic captain, Type-7 "Plain Jane" Shuttlecraft packed to the gills with crew, and a fully decked weapons and tech Prometheus with a generic captain (intent being he docks the shuttle and gets all the crew and doesn't violate the 50 point limit) He was using the promo DS-9, so it didn't move, and he set it up directly behind the planet. His ship next to the planet was the shuttle craft, which seemed a bit odd, because again, I didn't think shuttles were a ship, but I just wanted to play. He set up the Prometheus at a perpendicular angle to the shuttle craft. Turn 1, his shuttle bumps Prometheus, and he announces he is docking. I'm like "Hold on a second! You bumped a ship and lose your action. Docking is an action..." he didn't believe me until I got the rule book out, showed him the bump rules, then showed him the Shuttlecraft rules. Result? My Haakona using Disruptor Beams blows up his shuttle. Now he is left with a DS-9 and Prometheus with no crew or captain, but lots of weapons and tech. Basically, all action intensive, requiring scans and target locks, etc. etc. I blew up DS-9. rescued all the crew on the planet, and then destroyed his Prometheus. Didn't lose one ship.
Game 3: This was for all the marbles so to speak. We were playing for 1st and 2nd place. Faced a Fed fleet- Enterprise, Excelsior, and Intrepid, all loaded up with crew. The Excelsior was set up for "free Photons" every turn with a bunch of crew disables and re-enables with Tim Watters. The Enterprise (newer one) had Captain Archer, a bunch more crew and "free disables" again- basically, he would disable a couple shields, then a couple crew with Archer, and be rolling 6-7 attack dice. Whew! Finally, the Intrepid had Captain Ahab Picard, Type-8 Phasers, Phaser Refit, and a bunch of crew for more shenanigans. Playing this guy is always a treat, as he comes up with some very cool crew interactions on his ships. That Archer Enterprise? Genus as far as I'm concerned. I may steal that build in the future. I'll definitely have to get a copy of this fleet from him. Long story short on this battle- things started off well. Rescued some crew, traded some shots that stripped some shields, took a little damage in return. Then my dice decided "You know what? We are gonna kill you". Genesis Planet starts blowing up and causing 2 damage to all my ships, I roll six evasion dice and get no evades, I shoot 7 attack dice with a [ BS], get ONE HIT. Etc. etc. I didn't even blow up one of his ships despite getting the Enterprise and Intrepid down to one hull each, and the Excelsior pointing away from me with no shields and a couple damage cards. Talk about a frustrating game! LOL
The MVP: The IRW Haarkona with Disruptor Beams. Started out using the ship text with all my ships, so I was throwing a base six attack dice at Captain Skill 10 if the ship was in my front arc. After losing a ship, I switched over to just using my Disruptor Beams, and OMG is that a great weapon. I am going to have to explore it's use and come up with a couple more of them. If you play Romulans and don't have 2-3 copies, you need to get them! I found the Tactics resource invaluable for Romulans giving me access to [ BS] and [scan]. I might switch over to Master Strategist Resource next time as you get more tokens out of it, but it costs 10. Still, Romulans with [ BS] and [scan] can be pretty scary! With it's big, beefy hull of six, I had no problem "parking" the Haarkona near the Genesis planet and rescuing everyone.
The Red Shirts... LOL I finally found a use for my three Red Shirt cards! Now, if only they were not so expensive and Fed only... I used them too. "Shinzon! Look out! AHHHHH" or "Genesis Planet Angry! Genesis Planet DEMANDS a sacrifice!" Guess my Red Shirt wasn't good enough because the planet kept rumbling. Oh, and the first game, my opponent "stacked" his side board with some fantastic Dom crew he thought he was going to get to use. Nope. "Red shirts! Set phazers to kill..." LOL Unlike Stormtroopers, Red Shirts CAN hit their targets. They just usually die.
I came in second place, but SURPRISE! The FLGS got in two OP Prize kits, so 1st and 2nd place got a ship, a random person got a ship, and the OP gave a ship to last place. All in all, a good time! Oh, and I managed to "rescue" Spock and Savak from the Genesis planet in all my games. As far as I'm concerned, that was the mission.
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Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/04 16:41:28
Subject: Re:[STAW Classic OP 2: The Search For Spock Battle Report]
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Stubborn Prosecutor
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Nice write up
As for the fighters and shuttles, they count towards the 3 ship min so there was nothing wrong with the first kids list. Retiring resources is of course up to the TO, however he should have left it open for anyone to use Officer Exchange.
( http://win.wizkids.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=5672&p=13465&hilit=Fighter+squadrons&sid=397213eb9a0784a59aec88e099ffb1d3#p13465)
As for shuttles and fighters beaming up crew, there has been no official ruling from WK on that. However see tournament rules:
"7) Squadrons may not be affected by any card text that references a ship unless a) The ability is triggered by a Squadron Upgrade,
b) The text specifies that it targets a Squadron, or c) It is triggered as part of an attack targeting a Squadron. Additionally, the
upgrades on a Squadron may still be affected as if they were on a normal ship."
The OP rules are not a "card" ability so fighters are allowed to perform them, WK is consistent with this. Even though they have not ruled on TCM OP2 they did rule that fighters took damage from the Void and could spend/steal resource tokens in that OP. WK also ruled that fighters could sensor echo in the Wrath of Khan.
I have some pics from my Search for Spock. I just need to find time to put them up.
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It's time to go full Skeletor |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/06 17:10:26
Subject: Re:[STAW Classic OP 2: The Search For Spock Battle Report]
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Some notes:
For Game 1; OXP is still valid till August 2016 now. This was changed when the latest FAQ was release, however it was only listed correctly on the WORF resources post - http://win.wizkids.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3445&sid=7159adc449933f57742c7e81d9e5ba03
Game 2: The shuttle bumping the Prometheus is still able to perform the docking action. From the tournament rules under the Shuttlecraft rules;
NOTE: A player may only use the docking Action if after their shuttlecraft moves, its base overlaps a friendly ship’s base, OR
if after one of their ships moves, that ship’s base overlaps a friendly shuttlecraft’s base (this is the only action that the colliding
ship may take), in which case the shuttlecraft suffers 1 damage in addition to the normal overlap rules (see pg. 18).
As mentioned already Fighters do count towards the 3 ship limit and in past OPs (Q-Contiuum, Void etc) WORF has ruled fighters as ships for the rules of the scenario.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/06 17:11:17
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/07 14:14:13
Subject: Re:[STAW Classic OP 2: The Search For Spock Battle Report]
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Abel
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I have a lot of fun playing this game until I come on here and post a battle report and everyone tells me all the things I did wrong...
1. In regards to Officer Exchange, the sticky post for tournament rules says "Revised 5/31/2016" while the Resources sticky says "Mon, Jan 19 2015", so which one should we be using? We went with the most current date. Why would you use the older dated one?
2. Shuttles are ships- kewl, as I never use shuttles, and only seen shuttles used a handful of times in my OP, I don't go looking for WORF or rules about shuttles (I think they are pretty pointless in the game, but...). If my opponent would have said "WORF changed shuttles" I would have been more than happy to play by those rules. But when I have a rule book and cards that say one thing, and my opponent has nothing, and doesn't even call over the TO for a ruling...
If there is one thing that makes me want to quite STAW right now, it's crap like this. To think that hey, I'm a good player! I win consistently, I have a pretty good grasp on strategy and tactics... and then I come on here and it's like ya'll are playing a vastly different game then I am and I'm doing everything wrong... it really  me off.
All I have to say is that STAW is a steaming pile of crap right now, and I'm pretty sure I'm done playing. One more OP to finish out the Movie series, then I'm done. I'm tired of this stuff. I'm going to go play X-wing. And I encourage everyone else that plays STAW to go play X-wing. It's so much better then STAW, you'll wonder why you ever played STAW in the first place.
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Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/08 11:16:13
Subject: Re:[STAW Classic OP 2: The Search For Spock Battle Report]
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Sorry, by no means did I mean to offend you in anyway. My intention to you was only to try and clarify the mire of rulings that WK has created.
As for 1, I agree this is a mess too. The resources tab has been my go-to lately to find out expiration dates prior to the release of the new FAQ as the old FAQ's end dates for the listed resources was approaching. I merely pointed this out out so that if you've used OXP in the past that you still have another month to use it in any upcoming OPs. The only reason I knew the Resources tab was more up-to date then the latest FAQ was due to forum posts like this and others pointing it out. (Apparently this had to due with the TCM OP3 kits being delayed for a week or two)
For shuttles I've never used them either, I only know of the ruling as in my group I was chosen to make the ruling as I have played the game the longest and was/am the most familiar with the rules. As one player in our group tries to abuse and bend the rules (He figured MU Kirk should be able to keep the +3 attack dice between rounds) I've had to stay on top of them. I only really noticed the shuttle rules lately as he was asking about using shuttles/fighters as my group is running an older OP soon from before shuttles & fighters existed.
I do agree also that STAW right now is a huge mess of rulings, errata and misprinted cards.
From your battle report you do sound like a good player with a good grasp of strategy and tactics. If your having fun and enjoying yourself I'd say stick with it, that's why I'm playing regardless of the mess WK has created. It's great to see another venue that is faction/fleet pure, my group is the same only cause of the mess and power builds you can see without. Its also how the majority of us feel the game should be played.
How hard did you find the Disruptor Beams hitting at typically? Any reason you went with Tactics over General Orders? (I'm not a fan of the Aux from the Scan/BS actions on Romulan ships personally and just wondering if I'm missing something here)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/08 15:36:42
Subject: Re:[STAW Classic OP 2: The Search For Spock Battle Report]
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Abel
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I'm not offended, I'm just tired of all the differences in STAW from one venue to another. I play at three different venues, and each one has different house rules, levels of players, etc. etc. My time is pretty valuable these days- hence the reason I play more pre-painted games these days. It's a pain in the butt trying to pour through the WORF rulings, and like I noted earlier, it's a mess. At least the Facebook group keeps on top of a lot of stuff.
I've come to the conclusion that the balance in the game is so bad, any attempt to balance it by restricting this card or limiting faction, etc. etc. just leads to other broken combo's. Case in point, the FLGS I play at the most is fleet pure- which means we have a disproportionate amount of Federation Players. After that, maybe Dominion, then Independent. None of the lesser factions (Xindi, Species 8472, Kaxon). After that... I'm the only player that plays a different faction during each OP. And it's tough. For example, I played a Klingon Fleet for classic movies OP 1, and it was not fun for me. I just could not compete with Fed players with Picard, a ton of free actions, and all the upgrades they have access to. I won that OP, but it really feels like it was lucky dice then anything else, and that bothers me.
My two favorite fleets these days are Borg Assimilated Ships- Assimilated Klingon BoP, Enterprise, and Galor. Using the Borg Queen that can transfer to another ship, and high drone count captains, and finally, Assimilation Tubules, can really mess up a ship. I've found my local group uses a lot of disable cards in a combination to do nasty things. Looking at their fleet, it's pretty easy to guess which card I can assimilate that shuts the whole "Combo Train" down.
My other fleet I like a lot is the Mirror Universe Enterprise D, MU Defiant, MU Prakesh, I take the Worf "Attack you out of phase" card, the Sisko's "Disable before the game begins" and "throw her in the replicator vats and increase the crew rations" combo. I feel like that fleet has the best chance of standing up against Fleet Pure Feds.
I've used the 3 x Bioships before, and it was just pure brute force. I had no special combo's, no tricks, just pretty much fly straight at my opponent and throw 18+ attack dice (6 attack dice/ship) at their "Dreadnought". Most boring fleet ever.
I love playing Romulans, as they have some fantastic ships (Scimitar and Valdore), but they have no good captains, and cloaking... just sucks. I play against a Fed player that always uses at least one ship that can get 6-7 evade dice and an evade token for one action. And it's set up in such a way that he can do it every round, or maybe every other round? I'd have to dig his build out, but it's insane on a ship with 4 shields and 4-5 hull to have 6-7 evade dice. And I'm so tired of the free scan and target lock that so many Fed ships seem to get. So Romulans- two great ship classes, and some great upgrade cards, but no action economy sucks. Klingons have great ships, but again, lack of action economy, and the reliance on cloaking for defense just doesn't seem to work. And Dominion? They got left behind a long, long time ago.
So in Fleet Pure, Federation > Everyone Else.
Last battle report- I used Tactics over General Orders for points. Sucking up an Aux Token wasn't that big of a deal. If you look at the Valdore, Scimitar, and De'drex, they have a lot of green on the dial, and moving only 1-2 when you are in close isn't that bad to shed an Aux Token. Dorsal Phasers is a pretty expensive upgrade, and the trend I've actually seen is taking Photon's to shoot out the back arc instead. With so many free target locks, it's not that bad of a strategy. Of course, being out of your opponents arc and being able to shoot them is a big advantage, but if neither one can shoot at each other, that's OK as it gives you maneuver room and maybe even re-enable/tricks. Not having a [BS] or [SCAN] action on a ship just... it hurts so much, it's not even funny. Sensor Echo would be fantastic if it was a Free Action. I love using General Chang (7) and doing double sensor echo's... but that's like ALL he can do, and with the amount of 360 weapons in the game now, sensor echo to get out of a fire arc is unreliable.
With the Disruptor Beams, it's every damage that makes it through the first attack enables you to roll for more damage. Against ships with lots of evade- well, its at least 5 damage dice, but I wouldn't expect it to do much. Against ships with only 2-3 evade dice, it's golden. Against those ships, I was getting 3-5 total hits, and that's a lot of damage. A lot more if I had a Target Lock or [BS] on the ship. Basically, against those big, tanky ships with few to no evades, the card is definitely worth it. At least it's worth it on a ship like the D'deridex with only 3 attack dice and seen as "not much of a threat". I want to play a couple games with it on a Valdore, but there are just a lot of other buffs to bump up a primary weapon attack that it might not be worth it on a ship with 4+ attack dice. /shrug
Anymore, I don't really bother to make a fleet to win. I instead try to make a fleet that will "win" the scenario. For example, during OP2, the "mission" was to rescue the people on the Genesis planet. I selected Spock and Savak (would have used a Dr. Carl Marcus, but he isn't in the game yet...) and my goal was to rescue them off the planet. During the Year of Hell OP, during the final OP where it had the wormhole- I managed to escape through the wormhole in all three of my games. My "victory conditions" are not the same as my opponent, so it always throws them off when I don't go straight at them, but instead play the scenario/OP. It also feels better to achieve my own goals even when I "lose".
Final thoughts: The game sucks competitively, and if you chase that Dragon, it will drive you nuts (see above). I wish I could have fun, be competitive, and run what fleet I want, but that's not STAW or X-Wing (some uber-competitive Douschbags in that game!). Just playing the game for fun is fun. For anything else? Ugh.
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Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/08 20:07:08
Subject: Re:[STAW Classic OP 2: The Search For Spock Battle Report]
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Stubborn Prosecutor
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We are actually being pretty nice around here. If you think we are tough, stay clear of X-Wing tournaments. Those guys will light you up for the simplest things.
As for the game being a mess, it's not that bad. Most stuff can be found in the FAQ. For anything else the search feature on the rules forum works pretty well.
On the issue of shuttles, I don't know what rules card you have, but the one I have has it explained just like the tournament rules and Heavyguard explained.
STAW is no different than any other game. If you're going to OPs you have to make sure you have the most up to date FAQs and rules sets.
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It's time to go full Skeletor |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/09 00:01:39
Subject: Re:[STAW Classic OP 2: The Search For Spock Battle Report]
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Abel
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Mr. S Baldrick wrote:We are actually being pretty nice around here. If you think we are tough, stay clear of X-Wing tournaments. Those guys will light you up for the simplest things.
As for the game being a mess, it's not that bad. Most stuff can be found in the FAQ. For anything else the search feature on the rules forum works pretty well.
On the issue of shuttles, I don't know what rules card you have, but the one I have has it explained just like the tournament rules and Heavyguard explained.
STAW is no different than any other game. If you're going to OPs you have to make sure you have the most up to date FAQs and rules sets.
I think the game is a mess. Wizkids needs to reprint the rulebook, and properly define "May" vs. "at any time" vs. whatever the timing interactions are these days. I think they should be re-printing cards with errata on them- especially if they are going to be re-releasing ships. I could go on and on, but you are right- it's not as bad as some games, but it's far worse than it should be. The proof is in Nationals/Worlds attendance (what, like 6 players this year? Or was that last year? certainly wasn't many this year), and it extends down to the local level. Of the three places I regularly played STAW at, one stopped running OP's and stocking the game entirely. The other still sells the game, but the last OP three months ago had 3 players, so they stopped getting prize kits and running OP's. The third place still runs OPs and sells product, but nothing like it was last year. We went from 16-20 players every week, down to 6-8 players for a once a month OP. So yeah, I think the game is a mess and it's up to Wizkids to fix it or let it die and move on to something else.
Oh yeah, I had a run in with the X-wing crowd at one of my FLGS's that ended in a shouting match. LOL Him shouting at me anyways. And the X-Wing forum here is... I think a good word would be intense. As in, a lot of the posters forget that it's a game about little plastic toy space ships.
I'm not a big fan of having to "police" my opponent's fleet as much as my own. And you know how irked I get when I play something wrong, or I post something and you come on and say "Well, according to WORF, you played it wrong" (not a true quote, but that's the gist). So when I build a fleet now, I go searching for WORF stuff that affects my fleet. When my opponent shows up with a shuttle and says "oh, I can dock when I bump!", but doesn't have the shuttle rule card, and I don't either because why would I bring a card for a ship I'm not using? And no one else does either... so yeah, after reading your comment, I went looking for my shuttle card and there it is. All the rules we needed to properly play a shuttle craft. Now if only my opponent would have brought everything he needed to play his fleet...
I take exception to making sure I have all the most up to date FAQ's and rules sets. That should be the TO's job, not mine. I bring the rules and stuff I need to play my fleet. Are you saying I have to be an expert in my opponent's fleet as well? Maybe print out all the WORF rulings? Use up my data plan and cell phone battery looking up stuff for my opponent because he couldn't be bothered to bring the most up to date FAQ and rules sets for his fleet at least? Yeah, at that point I might as well be running the damn tournament instead of the TO.
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Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/09 14:00:52
Subject: Re:[STAW Classic OP 2: The Search For Spock Battle Report]
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Stubborn Prosecutor
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You shouldn't have to carry around all the latest stuff for STAW, but some TOs are lazy and some stores don't even have one. It never hurts to be prepared. It's not like we are talking about all that much for STAW, 1 printed FAQ, a smart phone, and a hand full of rules cards, (mostly Stations, Shuttles, Fighters, and Big Cube). At the places I play almost everyone has the rules forum bookmarked. Yeah it might use a fraction of data, but seriously I don't think 30 seconds is going to rocket someone to the poor house, especially considering that they are paying $15 bucks a pop to play with little ships  .
Nobody wants to "police" games but if you are prepared you can prevent an opponent from trying to pull a fast one, it also helps people play the game correctly. Could WK make it easier, yeah, but reprinting cards is not the answer.
1) People do not want to repurchase things they have already paid for
2) WK would not do it for free
3) If people start showing up with different versions of the same cards you will have more arguments than you have now.
The simplest thing to do would be to have a regularly updated FAQ, on that I can not agree more, but it isn't an overwhelming amount of stuff you need.
On the issue of shuttles your opponent should have everything he needs. Though I'm not sure which shuttle card you have, but the one I have has it worded just like the FAQ
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/09 14:01:23
It's time to go full Skeletor |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/11 16:14:19
Subject: [STAW Classic OP 2: The Search For Spock Battle Report]
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Dakka Veteran
California
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My problem is that in my local area, the FLGS have had a total drying-Up of our player base. We are making an effort to recruit, but it will be a slow process before anything else. With no one to play with, the games have become nothing but casual play.
X-Wing in our area is insane; three different leagues, each varying from 8-40+ players, tournaments weekly, super competitive for the most part.
As much as I love both games, and I love the people... Attack Wing stays casual longer. X-Wing has this issue of everyone watching/listening to podcasts and the regional tournaments looking for the "Top Builds"... and playing nothing else. And the top builds are top for a reason, because they win reliably against anything that isn't a top build.
Attack Wing I feel has a bit more versatility: you can play it at 50 points, 100, 150, 200, all fairly well balanced and fun, compared to X-Wing where you so much as suggest a 50 point game to a veteran pilot and they stare at you as if you just sprouted a third eye. anything above 100 starts to unbalance the game, or so they say, and its a big deal for them to play anything other than standard tournament rules.
X-Wing is a great game, don't get me wrong, but it seems like its only intended for competitive play. Attack Wing stinks at OP play, but shines in casual and scenario play.
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"I aim to misbehave"
"I find your lack of faith, disturbing."
"There's too many of them..." *static*
Star Trek Attack Wing, Star Wars X-Wing, Star Wars Armada, Imperial Assault |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/13 06:40:11
Subject: [STAW Classic OP 2: The Search For Spock Battle Report]
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Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer
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I can attest that X-Wing plays excellent as a casual game, and the community built co-op game for it rocks. I've played in games that had up to 4 players per side and many 200 pts games with no issues.
However, I feel Tamwulf's pain. I used to play in tournaments for WZ's Mechwarrior and afterward I swore I'd never do tournament play again - for ANY game. The atmosphere was so toxic it destroyed any pleasure I could derive from the game.
Nowadays, when I play I only do so casually and I am very cautious about who I play. Anyone starts talking about using their tournament list and I walk the other direction. However, what I do play, I have great fun with. It's nice not to get talked down to for my army composition.
Unfortunately for me, there is nobody else I know in my area who plays STAW, so though I've collected most of the ships, I've only ever managed to play one game (though I've done plenty of X-Wing). However, my knowledge of WizKids prior offerings - especially their Pirates game - makes me very nervous about STAW, as a I see a lot of (bad) design similarities.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/13 06:41:00
It never ends well |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/13 14:18:39
Subject: [STAW Classic OP 2: The Search For Spock Battle Report]
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Abel
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Stormonu wrote:I can attest that X-Wing plays excellent as a casual game, and the community built co- op game for it rocks. I've played in games that had up to 4 players per side and many 200 pts games with no issues.
However, I feel Tamwulf's pain. I used to play in tournaments for WZ's Mechwarrior and afterward I swore I'd never do tournament play again - for ANY game. The atmosphere was so toxic it destroyed any pleasure I could derive from the game.
Nowadays, when I play I only do so casually and I am very cautious about who I play. Anyone starts talking about using their tournament list and I walk the other direction. However, what I do play, I have great fun with. It's nice not to get talked down to for my army composition.
Unfortunately for me, there is nobody else I know in my area who plays STAW, so though I've collected most of the ships, I've only ever managed to play one game (though I've done plenty of X-Wing). However, my knowledge of WizKids prior offerings - especially their Pirates game - makes me very nervous about STAW, as a I see a lot of (bad) design similarities.
The thing that really stands out in my mind, is that STAW has the Organized Play events, that in addition to "destroy your opponent's fleet" has a scenario and usually "Mission Tokens" or something else you can collect to boost your overall standings in the OP. Every OP has been different, and some are really great, while others are pretty lame. When I contrast that with an X-Wing Tournament, its the same scenario (that is, there isn't one) and it's all about destroying your opponent's fleet. Each of the ships in STAW include a "Mission" which is usually tied to the ship in some way. I have no evidence of how many people actually play those missions, but I will say they are a nice little extra and fun to play.
The approach each company has taken towards their respective games can't be more different. I really like both games, but I wish they could take note of the other games and adapt the best rules/practices of the other.
It doesn't matter so much about the game, but the players that play it. While there is no "Game Breaking Rule" (though STAW has had a few close calls), the players can, and readily do break games all the time, and players come in all kinds of attitudes and play styles. A game can make for a poor play experience, but 99% of the time, it's the players that make a game great or horrible.
Mechwarrior was a great game, and so was Pirates!, but Wizkids does have a history of "running a game into the ground". I think that's more a Wizkids strategy- throw out a great new game, run it for a while, then let it die for the "Next big thing". My first Mechwarrior experience was a "casual Friday Night" and I chatted with my opponent saying "It's my first time playing, can you walk me through and all that?" He says "Sure! No problem". We played a smaller size game, and all I had was a couple booster packs, but it was enough for a smallish, Steelwolves army. So I had some infantry, a couple vehicles, and two mechs with some mediocre pilots. He uses one mech- a unique Atlas that was a tournament prize with some kick ass upgrade cards. It was a slaughter fest- I didn't even get one click of damage on his Atlas. I was pissed! And I told him. His reply: "It's not my fault you don't have the cards and mechs I do. This is the way you are supposed to play Mechwarrior". Ummm, yeah. That was the last time I played Mechwarrior there. I found another group that was much more laid back and fun.
A game can make or break your play experience. The players have a far greater impact on that play experience. Right now, STAW is at that point in the Wizkids development cycle where it's done. They are starting to re-release ships (like they did in Mechwarrior and Pirates). The next step will be new box sets and a new style of play (Solarius anyone? Pirates of the Spanish Main?), and then, they will stop. No big fan fair, no big announcement. They will simply stop supporting the game, but they will continue to sell it, and then, they will stop. And the game will be over.
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Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/13 20:43:50
Subject: [STAW Classic OP 2: The Search For Spock Battle Report]
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Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer
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Waaay off topic now, but I do agree on all your points. I'm hoping before STAW folds though that we get a few more ships - USS Centaur, for one - and maybe some of the Star Trek Legacy & old FASA designs  .
P.S.: The boxed sets for X-Wing (such as Imperial Vets) come with scenarios, but I haven't seen anyone playing them - yet. It'd be nice if ALL the ships came with a scenario, like STAW.
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It never ends well |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/14 04:20:29
Subject: [STAW Classic OP 2: The Search For Spock Battle Report]
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Dakka Veteran
California
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The Scenarios in the box setts are not extensively play tested, compared to the Wizkids scenarios. For example, the Scenario that came with the Lambda Shuttle is nearly impossible for an Imperial player to win.
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"I aim to misbehave"
"I find your lack of faith, disturbing."
"There's too many of them..." *static*
Star Trek Attack Wing, Star Wars X-Wing, Star Wars Armada, Imperial Assault |
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