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So I just got my copy of Crusade Imperialis and I noticed in the Imperial Militia section the "Using the Army list" section is missing the rules and paragraphs present in this section of every other army list that restricts Lords of Wars to those specifically in the army list and the rule that states that superheavies present in non-LoW FOC can't be taken as LoW. I wouldn't believe this was intentional if it weren't for the fact that FW just had the opportunity to correct errors by omission in compiling this red book.

Should I consider this as intentional?

What are the implications of the absence of these rules?

I reckon it is intentional but they could have actually clarified by stating they don't have the support that the Solar Auxilia have.

Though, I've notice a lot of errors that were in Book 4 are also in the Crusade Imperialis book.

Without those LOW though a Militia list is limited to a Baneblade and Stormhammer. But they could use the Questoris Knight list to get Knight allies, but then you've got to get two.

Probably very limited implications:

Restricting LoW to the ones listed in the army list means nothing, just like the absence of an explicit "you can only take fast attack choices from the fast attack section of this army list" statement doesn't let you take random marine fast attack units in your militia army. Whether or not there's an explicit reminder you're still limited to the LoW choices in your army list plus the standard "40k superheavies with no 30k rules yet" options.

Allowing non-LoW superheavies as LoW has minimal impact even if you can successfully argue that it works that way. What this essentially says is "you can take four Malcadors instead of three", and I think you'd have to try very hard to come up with a situation where three Malcadors just isn't enough. In smaller games you run out of points before you run out of FOC slots to take Malcadors, and in larger games you want a Baneblade-class unit in your LoW slot. It's just not worth getting into a rules dispute over something with such minimal strategic value.

On the point of an absence of a rule saying "only LoW from this army list" .the only thing I can think of is that the absence of the rule would result in a default to the Age of Darkness FOC rule that allow super heavies from other FW Imperial Armor books to be taken as LoW... where FW has otherwise effectively eliminated that stop gap possibility through the presence of the rules in the revised versions of all the army lists.


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 Peregrine wrote:

Allowing non-LoW superheavies as LoW has minimal impact even if you can successfully argue that it works that way. What this essentially says is "you can take four Malcadors instead of three"

Not saying I'd want to do it, but wouldn't you technically be able to take upto 3 Malcadors as a single LoW choice since they have few enough hull points... conceivably freeing up heavy support slots? -Even this rule seems to be practically rendered moot at this point now that marines have had Malcadors added as HS choices.

the only thing I can think of is that the absence of the rule would result in a default to the Age of Darkness FOC rule that allow super heavies from other FW Imperial Armor books to be taken as LoW... where FW has otherwise effectively eliminated that stop gap possibility through the presence of the rules in the revised versions of all the army lists.

Which would sort of make sense - the Imperialis Militia is intended to cover "weird odds and ends" so if you decided you wanted to include Minotaur or Praetor super-heavy artillery, for example, it's the army they should really be going in.

Unless you're really bothered about it, I'd probably ignore it. As noted, the 'best' Lord Of War you have access to (currently*) is the Command Baneblade** - because in addition to blowing stuff up with big guns, it provides a leadership reroll that militia really, really, really like getting.


* Watch this space for Leviathans and Capitol Imperialis....

** Which makes sense. If you remember the original Epic army list for the imperial guard, when you bought an imperial guard battalion it was always led from a command baneblade. Which was far more satisfying than 'one free stand of terminators' that the marines got.
Drive Me Further Away, I Want To Shell Them With Massive Artillery......

That does make sense and I do hope it is a case of foresight and not neglect. I'm fortunate that people I game with don't care too much about details like this, but its still nice to know if and how someone might be deviating from the rules.

This "issue" just add to the feeling I get that this red book, more than the others, was just thrown together. I get that Marines are the stars of the Horus Heresy, but it really feels like FW didn't even give the Solar Auxilia or Militia second thought before releasing this book. There are quite frankly a number of Imperial Army units mentioned in the lore and fluff that could easily have been added, Rough Riders for instance... and yet I believe this is the first red book FW didn't take advantage of to coincide the release of new models.

 aka_mythos wrote:
On the point of an absence of a rule saying "only LoW from this army list" .the only thing I can think of is that the absence of the rule would result in a default to the Age of Darkness FOC rule that allow super heavies from other FW Imperial Armor books to be taken as LoW... where FW has otherwise effectively eliminated that stop gap possibility through the presence of the rules in the revised versions of all the army lists.

Are you sure that this has been removed? Remember, it was originally in the general rules for playing 30k, NOT in the specific army lists.

Not saying I'd want to do it, but wouldn't you technically be able to take upto 3 Malcadors as a single LoW choice since they have few enough hull points... conceivably freeing up heavy support slots? -Even this rule seems to be practically rendered moot at this point now that marines have had Malcadors added as HS choices.

You could, but at that point you're spending enough total points (remember, the 25% limit applies to the LoW slot as a whole even if the individual units are less than 25% each) to buy a Baneblade-class tank that is better than its points in Malcadors. The advantage of the Malcador is that you don't have to spend your LoW to take it, put it into LoW and it's just a bad unit.


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 aka_mythos wrote:
There are quite frankly a number of Imperial Army units mentioned in the lore and fluff that could easily have been added, Rough Riders for instance... and yet I believe this is the first red book FW didn't take advantage of to coincide the release of new models.

Remember, this isn't the full extent of the Imperial Army. The Solar Auxilia are explicitly stated to be a specialized force with its own limited selection of units and equipment, while the militia army list is intended to represent a specific sort of local militia rather than the organized forces of the Imperial Army. And IMO both army lists feel pretty much complete. I could nitpick a few things and would make some changes if I had the power to do so, but it doesn't feel like there are many obvious omissions. Every single thing from the fluff going all the way back to 1980 isn't in there, but honestly a lot of that stuff can just be forgotten.

Equally, even the Solar Auxilia list - which is the more 'specialist' and 'restricted' list - isn't complete; since that book was published there's already been a new special character (the Master Medicae whose name escapes me) added to their army list.

Expect to see more things added over time. As I noted in another thread; seeing Imperial Army assault troops would be nice - the models used to have jump packs and two pistols, so giving them a pair of blast pistols and making them a 30k analogue to Seraphim might be quite nice.

In book 2 is where we get the broader "Battle in the Age of Darkness" rules covering more than just marines. On page 163 we get a break down of what counts as a LoW... In that it does say "from the specific army list or apocalypse data sheet" ...over and over again to qualify the different types. Separately but on the same page this is then amended to include super heavies from the Imperial armor books that don't have "era-specific counterparts". That's all we get before going to a specific army's rules.

Based on that, at least with Knights, and Solar Auxilia's rules, where it says they can only select LoW from their army list with caveats, it should be read as invalidating the option to take Apocalypse units and Imperial Armour units. While the absence of such restrictions for Militia should fully allow them. If I'm reading it all correctly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

locarno24 wrote:
Equally, even the Solar Auxilia list - which is the more 'specialist' and 'restricted' list - isn't complete; since that book was published there's already been a new special character (the Master Medicae whose name escapes me) added to their army list.

Expect to see more things added over time. As I noted in another thread; seeing Imperial Army assault troops would be nice - the models used to have jump packs and two pistols, so giving them a pair of blast pistols and making them a 30k analogue to Seraphim might be quite nice.

I get what your saying and it isn't really any sense of being "incomplete" so much as certain things would make sense in the sorr of Militia the Militia army list is meant to represent. Rough riders are one I go back to because a group of horseback or beast mounted hunters are precisely the sort of people who'd be in this sort of militia.

Rumor is that "Inferno" is supposed to have an offshoot Imperial Army list to represent spyer guards. That type of specific force sublist maybe the direction FW has decided to go in representing the more colorful aspects of the Imperial Army.



That said, thanks for the replies. Sometimes these apparent things just need a sounding board.

Based on that, at least with Knights, and Solar Auxilia's rules, where it says they can only select LoW from their army list with caveats, it should be read as invalidating the option to take Apocalypse units and Imperial Armour units. While the absence of such restrictions for Militia should fully allow them. If I'm reading it all correctly.

More or less how I read it, too. Which makes sense.

 aka_mythos wrote:


Based on that, at least with Knights, and Solar Auxilia's rules, where it says they can only select LoW from their army list with caveats, it should be read as invalidating the option to take Apocalypse units and Imperial Armour units. While the absence of such restrictions for Militia should fully allow them. If I'm reading it all correctly

I think that is the same as I'm reading it.

Nothing has actually changed, just confirmation that IM&C are restricted to their own Baneblade and Stormhammer, or taking Superheavies and Flyers without current 30k rules.

Of course, that list is pretty restrictive right now, since Avengers and Minotaurs are in the Mechanicum lists and all the Baneblade variants are in SA. Pretty much Macharius variants, Crassus variants, Marauders and the Aquila Lander??

umor is that "Inferno" is supposed to have an offshoot Imperial Army list to represent spyer guards. That type of specific force sublist maybe the direction FW has decided to go in representing the more colorful aspects of the Imperial Army.

I could see this being a good reason to include the Provenance rule in the first place. It's much easier to keep the Imperialis Militia basic list the same and then just release specific Provenances for Spyreguard or Cavalry or whatever.

I'm a bit sceptical of there ever being a third 'Imperial Army' list - partly because it would have so much crossover with the existing lists, and partly because so many of the Imperial Army regiments we already know are directly mentioned in the fluff to the IM&C list (Geno Chiliad, Lucifer Blacks, etc).

There is something kinda weird about that rule. It defines its intent and purpose as to be permissive in representing the great variety of war machines but despite that stated permissive intent the rule is actually in effect a restriction designed to prohibit great variety.

There is in a sense a greater diversity of war machines optionally used by more varied Imperial Forces during the 40k era than the Heresy era as a consequence of that rule.