BLM delay have demands for pride parade

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**OgreChubbs**

Hey guys so I thought I would show this. I am wondering what everyone else thinks about this

BLM demands for letting the pride parade to pass.

No more police floats
The organization was given the status of Honoured Group for the parade, which is the grand finale of Pride Month. It did not give Pride Toronto advance notice of their planned sit-in.

...... So that happened.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/pride-parade-toronto-1.3662823

**jreilly89**

OgreChubbs wrote:
Hey guys so I thought I would show this. I am wondering what everyone else thinks about this

BLM demands for letting the pride parade to pass.

No more police floats
The organization was given the status of Honoured Group for the parade, which is the grand finale of Pride Month. It did not give Pride Toronto advance notice of their planned sit-in.

...... So that happened.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/pride-parade-toronto-1.3662823

I think it's an overall gakky thing to do. I'm all for sit-ins, but there's a time and place, and disturbing a gay pride rally is not the place.

**Buttery Commissar**

Hm. Asking OT to pick between police, gay people and Black Lives Matter.
I think we've found the ultimate dilemma.

Personally, I think this fella sums it up well.

http://www.citynews.ca/2016/07/04/gay-toronto-police-officers-open-letter-to-pride-after-blm-seeks-removal-of-police-floats/

Dear Pride Toronto,

I am writing today to address concerns I have with your recent agreement with Black Lives Matter TO. I am particularly concerned with your willingness to remove all police floats and booths in future parades and community spaces. I should give you my background first.

I am a Toronto Police Service Constable, and a homosexual. I have been on the job eight years. Prior to becoming a Police Officer, I served in the Canadian Armed Forces and completed a tour in Kandahar Afghanistan in 2006-07.

I never “came out” while serving in the military. Though not for fear of persecution, I only told a select few about my orientation. I was still quite young and was simply not ready.

It wasn’t until 2012 that I decided to come out. I began to tell a few peers at work, and soon word spread. I can say with absolute pride that my peers, and my employers/senior management, have never made an inappropriate comment to me. I have never been made to feel discriminated against.

This year, 2016, marked a first for me. My first Pride parade. I would be working, nonetheless it would be my first one in any capacity. Wow, what an event. What a spectacle, a joining of everyone.

The 2016 pride events really opened my eyes to something. The support that I have from my peers and supervisors has been unwavering. When I saw all those floats and officers marching (hundreds), I realized that my employer fully supports this part of me, and so many others like me. As I stood post at Yonge and College, ensuring a safe atmosphere, Chief Mark Saunders came up to me. I had the opportunity to salute him, and I knew that I had a leader who was invested in this celebration of Pride.

LGBTQ cops have struggled for decades. I am fortunate, because it is their struggles in the past, that have made my orientation an irrelevant factor in my workplace interactions. Members of police services, and their employers (like RBC, Telus, Porter, etc) have just as much right to participate as any other group.

Police officers are significantly represented in the LGBTQ community and it would be unacceptable to alienate and discriminate against them and those who support them. They too struggled to gain a place and workplace free from discrimination and bias.

I do not speak for the police, and I do not speak for the LGBTQ community. I speak as an individual, one who saw his first Pride, only to be excluded from the next.

Exclusion does not promote inclusion.

Chuck Krangle

**nkelsch**

jreilly89 wrote:

I think it's an overall gakky thing to do. I'm all for sit-ins, but there's a time and place, and disturbing a gay pride rally is not the place.

It is when the gay community is known for extreme racism and bigotry in many places and these pride events intentionally block minority groups from having space or representation in the event but then give space to groups which have nothing to do with the event.

White Gay men are one of the most bigoted groups in pride events. There are huge divides between gays and lesbians as well as whites and minorities. Acceptance only goes as far as 'reclaiming their birthright privilege' in many cases.

Having seen this first hand in DC, I totally understand their outrage as in a group where the media shows supposed solidarity, they are even outsiders in an event about acceptance and unity.

**MrDwhitey**

Exclusion does not promote inclusion.

Pretty much this.

**SemperMortis**

LBGT: "We are an oppressed minority within society, we demand equality and are going to have a parade to raise awareness"

BLM: "We are an oppressed minority within society, we demand equality and are going to interrupt everyone's days until our demands are met"

Police: "We are the police, we are not really oppressed but whatever....ohh wait now we are being oppressed. well feth"

So BLM are the racists? or the oppressors? Im confused, I thought we were all supposed to hate the police and support the gay community. But now I don't know which way my SJW feelings are leaning. Do I support that minority, or this minority or the cops who are now an oppressed minority. So much privilege!

**Buttery Commissar**

nkelsch wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:

I think it's an overall gakky thing to do. I'm all for sit-ins, but there's a time and place, and disturbing a gay pride rally is not the place.

It is when the gay community is known for extreme racism and bigotry in many places and these pride events intentionally block minority groups from having space or representation in the event but then give space to groups which have nothing to do with the event.

White Gay men are one of the most bigoted groups in pride events. There are huge divides between gays and lesbians as well as whites and minorities. Acceptance only goes as far as 'reclaiming their birthright privilege' in many cases.

Having seen this first hand in DC, I totally understand their outrage as in a group where the media shows supposed solidarity, they are even outsiders in an event about acceptance and unity.

Did this actually happen, or are you generalising?

And what group do you believe has nothing to do with the LGBT community?

**Frazzled**

Meanwhile everyone else just wants the parade to move on because you blocked all the freaking roads...

*Interesting note, Yonge street is the longest street in the Northern Hemisphere. Its the Volga of streets.

**Rosebuddy**

Allowing cops in pride parades rather goes against the spirit of them, anyway, what with the whole point of them being to tell the authorities to feth themselves.

**stanman**

I'm confused, I thought BLM was a US thing? I wasn't aware that Toronto was a hotbed of racial tension and police brutality, the only thing I've ever thought Canada was suffering from were people being far too nice (and the occasional moose attack).

**OgreChubbs**

stanman wrote:
I'm confused, I thought BLM was a US thing? I wasn't aware that Toronto was a hotbed of racial tension and police brutality, the only thing I've ever thought Canada was suffering from were people being far too nice (and the occasional moose attack).

Trends tend to jump borders, people always do this.

**Prestor Jon**

Rosebuddy wrote:
Allowing cops in pride parades rather goes against the spirit of them, anyway, what with the whole point of them being to tell the authorities to feth themselves.

I thought Pride parades were meant to celebrate the freedom and inherent right to be yourself and be proud of the person that you are. Having a parade just to tell somebody to feth themselves is petty, obnoxious, childish, uncivil behavior.

**stanman**

Rosebuddy wrote:
Allowing cops in pride parades rather goes against the spirit of them, anyway, what with the whole point of them being to tell the authorities to feth themselves.

Obviously you've never seen just how good those tight patrol shorts look on a man, it'd be criminal not to allow this in a pride parade

**MrDwhitey**

I can see when the police etc were against Pride Parades it would be a giant "feth you" to them.

As they're not now, and generally trying to support it 100%, they're not in anyway the target of any implied "feth you" from a pride parade.

I think some people though, want it to go back to when the police actively oppressed those who would go to a pride parade, and those people should feth off.

**jreilly89**

Rosebuddy wrote:
Allowing cops in pride parades rather goes against the spirit of them, anyway, what with the whole point of them being to tell the authorities to feth themselves.

Uh, wrong.

The point of having cops in pride parades is to include people and build a unified community. It's why straight people are allowed to attend Pride events, despite not being gay

**SemperMortis**

Rosebuddy wrote:
Allowing cops in pride parades rather goes against the spirit of them, anyway, what with the whole point of them being to tell the authorities to feth themselves.

And that about sums up why I hate the modern protest culture and SJW types (not saying Rose is a SJW)

It isn't about equality, it isn't about inclusiveness, it is about telling everyone else to feth themselves.

Just to clarify because I know there are those who wish to take my words out of context, that does not mean EVERY protest is bad, just most of the recent ones. BLM is a joke and honestly are excessively racist, you want to talk about a group that discriminates, look no further then BLM.

**Lord Corellia**

The thing that alarms me is that to say "All blacks are trouble makers" is wrong because well, yeah, it is. However, apparently saying "All cops are racist feths with an itchy trigger finger" is just fine. I don't recall an incident of a Toronto police officer shooting and killing a black suspect or bystander in recent memory. I remember a few instances of shooting mentally ill suspects/ perpetrators that caught a lot of flack in the last few years. If I recall, two were white and one was middle-eastern. So why the hatred and venom for Toronto cops specifically? Is it really because "they're all the fething same"? Seems hypocritical.

**jhe90**

So you basicaly end up woth the toughest call ever.

offend the pride, offend BLM.
both groups are vocal.

though BLM did interfere with a planned public event, theres grounds to move them out the way to let pride pass.

**Buttery Commissar**

Rosebuddy wrote:
Allowing cops in pride parades rather goes against the spirit of them, anyway, what with the whole point of them being to tell the authorities to feth themselves.

Progression. It's not 1980 any more.
Pride has adapted to welcome more and more people, and focus on unity.

Maybe you should consider doing similarly.

**Rosebuddy**

Prestor Jon wrote:

I thought Pride parades were meant to celebrate the freedom and inherent right to be yourself and be proud of the person that you are. Having a parade just to tell somebody to feth themselves is petty, obnoxious, childish, uncivil behavior.

They kicked off as a response to cop raids on gay bars and mistreatment of the LGBT community in general. Standing up tall and proud after the AIDS crisis started and refusing to hide yourself anymore was kind of a big deal. The AIDS crisis hasn't ended, either, and the role cops play in society hasn't changed.

**Prestor Jon**

Rosebuddy wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:

I thought Pride parades were meant to celebrate the freedom and inherent right to be yourself and be proud of the person that you are. Having a parade just to tell somebody to feth themselves is petty, obnoxious, childish, uncivil behavior.

They kicked off as a response to cop raids on gay bars and mistreatment of the LGBT community in general. Standing up tall and proud after the AIDS crisis started and refusing to hide yourself anymore was kind of a big deal. The AIDS crisis hasn't ended, either, and the role cops play in society hasn't changed.

The social and cultural treatment of the LGBT community certainly has though. It's not the 1980s anymore, things have actually changed and holding onto a mindset that is now outdated is counter productive.

**Lord Corellia**

Rosebuddy wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:

I thought Pride parades were meant to celebrate the freedom and inherent right to be yourself and be proud of the person that you are. Having a parade just to tell somebody to feth themselves is petty, obnoxious, childish, uncivil behavior.

They kicked off as a response to cop raids on gay bars and mistreatment of the LGBT community in general. Standing up tall and proud after the AIDS crisis started and refusing to hide yourself anymore was kind of a big deal. The AIDS crisis hasn't ended, either, and the role cops play in society hasn't changed.

But the attitude cops and a lot of other authority figures have towards homosexuals and homosexuality HAS changed. My grandparents' generation wouldn't have understood. My parents would be fine and supportive if myself or any of my siblings came out tomorrow.

The movement has evolved, it's become more inclusive because it's become more accepted. That's a GOOD thing. Let's try not to drag the past back into the movement and, in doing so, drag the movement back into the past.

**Monkey Tamer**

Just another instance of BLM being counterproductive. I'm not surprised. They have the our way or the highway approach. They've repeatedly demonstrated their unwillingness to be reasonable or want equality. They want power, and every time someone gives in they get more.

**Buttery Commissar**

Rosebuddy wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:

I thought Pride parades were meant to celebrate the freedom and inherent right to be yourself and be proud of the person that you are. Having a parade just to tell somebody to feth themselves is petty, obnoxious, childish, uncivil behavior.

They kicked off as a response to cop raids on gay bars and mistreatment of the LGBT community in general. Standing up tall and proud after the AIDS crisis started and refusing to hide yourself anymore was kind of a big deal. The AIDS crisis hasn't ended, either, and the role cops play in society hasn't changed.

Your old road is rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one if you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a' changin'...

But more realistically, remembering the past can be achieved without wallowing in it.
Pride has roots in resistance, and it's future in acceptance. Putting a wall back up because "that's how it used to be" is ridiculous.
If you can't see how damaging and poisonous that insisting Pride exclude people is, I don't know what to tell you.

**Rosebuddy**

Lord Corellia wrote:
Rosebuddy wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:

I thought Pride parades were meant to celebrate the freedom and inherent right to be yourself and be proud of the person that you are. Having a parade just to tell somebody to feth themselves is petty, obnoxious, childish, uncivil behavior.

They kicked off as a response to cop raids on gay bars and mistreatment of the LGBT community in general. Standing up tall and proud after the AIDS crisis started and refusing to hide yourself anymore was kind of a big deal. The AIDS crisis hasn't ended, either, and the role cops play in society hasn't changed.

But the attitude cops and a lot of other authority figures have towards homosexuals and homosexuality HAS changed. My grandparents' generation wouldn't have understood. My parents would be fine and supportive if myself or any of my siblings came out tomorrow.

The movement has evolved, it's become more inclusive because it's become more accepted. That's a GOOD thing. Let's try not to drag the past back into the movement and, in doing so, drag the movement back into the past.

It's a terrible thing to forget history and to lose track of what "accepting" actually refers to and who is doing it and why. Let's keep in mind that capitalism attempts to co-opt everything. It is in its nature to absorb and disarm. The LGBT movement must remain fundamentally radical or it will splinter and fail.

Monkey Tamer wrote:
Just another instance of BLM being counterproductive. I'm not surprised. They have the our way or the highway approach. They've repeatedly demonstrated their unwillingness to be reasonable or want equality. They want power, and every time someone gives in they get more.

Power is the point of a protest. Not having things the way you want them is why you protest. Disrupting the normal state of affairs until your opponents give in is how you know that your movement works.

**Monkey Tamer**

Part of getting what you want is diplomacy, and BLM hasn't understood this. All they're doing is creating more enemies instead of gathering more supporters.

**Rosebuddy**

Monkey Tamer wrote:
Part of getting what you want is diplomacy, and BLM hasn't understood this. All they're doing is creating more enemies instead of gathering more supporters.

There's no point to diplomacy when the other side does not want to talk to you no matter what and have nothing to gain from talking to you.

**jreilly89**

Rosebuddy wrote:
Monkey Tamer wrote:
Part of getting what you want is diplomacy, and BLM hasn't understood this. All they're doing is creating more enemies instead of gathering more supporters.

There's no point to diplomacy when the other side does not want to talk to you no matter what and have nothing to gain from talking to you.

Pretty sure MLK, one of the biggest civil rights movements activists, would disagree with you. He was all about diplomacy AND change. Crazy, huh?

**MrDwhitey**

To be fair, MLK actually wanted change and to be seen as equal.

**Lord Corellia**

Rosebuddy wrote:
It's a terrible thing to forget history and to lose track of what "accepting" actually refers to and who is doing it and why.

Remembering history and living in the past are two different things. Remembering allows us to avoid repeating the past and thus move on. Living in the past just forces you to stew in your hatred and spite and sticks you in a rut.

Rosebuddy wrote:
Let's keep in mind that capitalism attempts to co-opt everything. It is in its nature to absorb and disarm. The LGBT movement must remain fundamentally radical or it will splinter and fail.

You definitely lost me here. What does capitalism have to do with the gay movement or police? Or Toronto in particular? I get the feeling that you're moving towards some capitalist illuminati conspiracy theory, which I have no time for.