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Some backstory: Having been obsessed with boardgames in general since early 2013, this christmas my girls (aged 10 and 8 at the time) got some gift certificates for a womens craft store in a town nearby. Anyway, I go there with them between christmas and new years and they spend a lot of time in the store finding stuff they want and fortunately there's a post-christmas 50% sale on everything! Anyway, needing something to occupy myself with I stare at the hobby paints, specifically a beginners-set and I come to think that it might be fun to try to paint a few of my War Of The Ring miniatures since they are virtually indistinguishable from each other. Knowing absolutely nothing - and I mean nothing about miniatures painting - I pick up that beginners set. Little did I know that I wasn't actually picking up quality miniatures paint but typical crafts store hobby paint. Well at least I didn't spend THAT much money on it...

Anyway, fast forward half a year and I have now painted something like 40-50 of the miniatures from War Of The Ring (there are around 200 in all) and I am getting increasingly better. So, naturally I have started lusting for some better paint. Recently I bought a Vallejo Model Colour basic skintone because I didn't have any even halfway decent skincolours (all of my human miniatures ended up looking like zombies) and WOW, that is so much better than the crafts paint I have been using. So, now I'm thinking about getting a good set of quality colours.

What I want to do:
I'm 41 years old and just getting started. I'm not going to be a professional painter or enter competitions. But I do like to work with quality stuff. I won't be doing authentic military models or anything like that. Rather, I will be painting miniatures from fantasy style boardgames. Currently doing War Of The Ring and since the miniatures in that are small and not the best quaility, I am looking at it as a learning experience, and basically any paint job on them are gonna be a vast improvement on the non painted versions (even got my daughters started painting a few of them and they are doing quite alright). Next up are the miniatures from Star Wars Imperial Assault, which are a step up in quality. After that, I'm probably gonna get something like Blood Rage. While I am fascinated watching airbrush videos, I don't see myself going that route.

What I am looking at:
I have been looking quite a bit at the Vallejo Game Color Paint Set of 72 bottles. Now, I know that there are several reasons why that might be a bad idea and I want to address these reasons and then you can tell me if I am completely wrong.

- The paint set isn't all that great value, much better to pick the ones you want specifically, maybe even mixing from different brands.

One important thing I do get from buying the full set is that I get the case to go along, which seems very cool for storing the paints. I have big storage issues, so if I didn't get the set I would have to purchase a seperate storage solution. Also, I do want a "full" range of paints and while I'm sure it would be better to pick and choose, I lack the knowledge to be able to do so. If anybody has a "best of Vallejo" post anywhere, that would be nice!

- You should get the Vallejo Model set or even the Vallejo Model Air set instead.

I am kinda attracted to vibrant fantasy style colours, which is why I have been focused on the Game color range. I am willing to be pursuaded otherwise though. Also, I like the fact that VGC is supposedly more durable than VMC.

- What about the new-ish Game Air line?

Yeah, what about that? I have been able to find fairly little information on it. If this is better than regular Game color I would like to know.

- You should get Reaper instead!

Maybe, but Reaper is barely available anywhere near my country.


so TLR: I am seriously considering buying that 72 color Vallejo Game Color box. If this is a terrible idea, then let me know!

If you can afford it, and you want a complete paint set at a go, VGC would be one I recommend. I regularly use a good number of their paints, and they're very solid. They are also nearly perfect matches to the old (pre 2012) Citadel paints which many people used for years.

If I were to lose all of my paints in a tragic accident, I'd look hard at VGC to bootstrap me back into the hobby. It's a good range, with plenty of options, but isn't too hyperspecific.

1) I'd say that lacking the knowledge to be able to pick and choose colours isn't a great reason to go ahead and buy the whole range. If a colour takes your fancy, googling it in image search should yield various images that enable you to get a feel for it. (It's what I've done before any pruchase). Do your research so you don't end up with buyer's remorse.

If you set about being selective and are looking for input I'd say my Game Colour MVP's are:

Ghosty Grey
Stonewall Grey
Royal Purple
Imperial Blue
Scurvy Green
Yellow Olive
Charred Brown
Tinny Tin (which is actually a brown bronze, despite the name)

Most of my paints are Model Colour or Reaper.

2) Game Colour tends to dry a bit glossy, even after vigorous shaking, unless you add in some kind of matte medium in my experience.

3) Game Air is simply Game Colour thinned down enough for air brush. Many people use them as is with normal brushes since they'd be thinning regular Game Colour anyway.

4) Model Colour has plenty of vibrant colours and a much broader selection than Game Colour, the reds and purples in particular are leagues better in my opinion.

5) If I had my time again, I'd go all in on Reaper. I think their paints are marvellous, but I know a UK stockist and so can get hold of them relatively easily.

 sockwithaticket wrote:

If you set about being selective and are looking for input I'd say my Game Colour MVP's are:

Ghosty Grey
Stonewall Grey
Royal Purple
Imperial Blue
Scurvy Green
Yellow Olive
Charred Brown
Tinny Tin (which is actually a brown bronze, despite the name)

....

4) Model Colour has plenty of vibrant colours and a much broader selection than Game Colour, the reds and purples in particular are leagues better in my opinion.

Thanks. This kind of info is very useful, as it is very possible that I end up going the pick'n'choose route. Of course, I'd be concerned that I would end up with far more than 72 colors by doing that!

A couple of years ago I decided to go for Vallejo paints when I got back into painting - mainly because I had a rage against the machine moment at the company making my old paints...

I went for the big VGC box and I'm really glad that I did!

Sure, there are a few paints that I've never needed to touch, but it was great knowing that I probably had the paint at hand to do the job.

Of course, that wasn't true and I've bought a dozen individual extra bottles here and there, but I don't regret purchasing that big case at all!

If one were to actually go the pick'n'mix route, which of the numerous metallic colors should one pick up from Vallejo. Would prefer the actyllic ones even though I realize that the alcohol based ones are supposedly the best.

I have been doing some more searching and have actually found a decent storage option that is not too expensive. This would make the pick'mix route more reasonable, if I could possibly choose the right/best colors. http://www.pk-pro.de/HZ-Large-Paint-Stand-Small-25mm_1

Well I love the Game line but the metallics are not very good. The Model Colour metallics are great though. I did a big comparison some time back of you're interested http://atticwars40k.blogspot.com/2011/10/great-gold-rush-quest-for-best-gold.html?m=1

Otherwise you can't go wrong with VGC, but some of the VMC colors are too good, white especially, metallics, several of blue tones. I love all the VMC solid basic colors are great, for more interesting stuff VGC is great - like the jade green and turquoise and purple.

Welcome to Dakka BlueSwan.

First, in Denmark, what do you have for artist / hobby stores nearby?
What brands do they carry?
Is Vallejo the better supported paints?

I find it depends on what you are most comfortable with by the type of paint.
The container is no small consideration: the eye dropper method works well for you?

I find I do a mix of Liquitex, Vallejo and Games Workshop depending on the paints I most like their colour or how they apply.
As an experiment, see how the Vallejo Air line does for brush application: I was surprised how nicely it went down.

Look very hard at what GW calls "shade" or the Vallejo "Wash", they are great for creating a gradient of colour.
My favorite metallic is "GW Leadbelcher" it has that perfect old steel look that is a perfect base to highlight up.

I find it is the combination of colours and techniques that are important: take notes how you paint a given model:

Prime: Black
Light block paint: Paynes Grey
Wash: Leadbelcher
Shade: Nuln Oil
Edge Highlight: Chainmail

I am still getting used to Vallejo names for colours but I like that they have a good amount of pigment and cover well.

Good Luck.

 Gunzhard wrote:
Well I love the Game line but the metallics are not very good. The Model Colour metallics are great though. I did a big comparison some time back of you're interested http://atticwars40k.blogspot.com/2011/10/great-gold-rush-quest-for-best-gold.html?m=1

Cool. I'll go read that!

Otherwise you can't go wrong with VGC, but some of the VMC colors are too good, white especially, metallics, several of blue tones. I love all the VMC solid basic colors are great, for more interesting stuff VGC is great - like the jade green and turquoise and purple.

Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Talizvar wrote:
Welcome to Dakka BlueSwan.

First, in Denmark, what do you have for artist / hobby stores nearby?
What brands do they carry?
Is Vallejo the better supported paints?

Well, I'll likely be buying most of my stuff online. There are no minatures/games hobby stores where I live, but there is one not too far away from where I work. They carry Citadel, Vallejo and Army Painter.

I find it depends on what you are most comfortable with by the type of paint.
The container is no small consideration: the eye dropper method works well for you?

Definitely eye dropper. Love my single Vallejo paint bottle. The crafts paint I have are in screw-on containers and I waste a ton of paint trying to get some out on my pallette.

I find I do a mix of Liquitex, Vallejo and Games Workshop depending on the paints I most like their colour or how they apply.
As an experiment, see how the Vallejo Air line does for brush application: I was surprised how nicely it went down.

Look very hard at what GW calls "shade" or the Vallejo "Wash", they are great for creating a gradient of colour.
My favorite metallic is "GW Leadbelcher" it has that perfect old steel look that is a perfect base to highlight up.

I just bought the entire Army Painter line of quickshade inks.

If you're looking at Army Painter (good job on the inks, they are some of the best around and crazy good value) I have found that their silvers are some of the best metallics I've used. I use Gunmetal on pretty much everything!

Stumbled upon warcolours reading threads last night. Looks like stupid good value for money compared to the usual brands. Not too many opinions on it out there yet, though.

For Vallejo metallics, I really like the Game Air ones rather than the Game Colour ones.

They just seem to flow better and have more even coverage - VGA Steel is one of my go-to paints.

Have read a lot more today and am currently convinced that I will go the "best of Vallejo" route. So I welcome any suggestions as to which individual colours to get.

Warcolours seems like a bad fit for me, since I am impatient by nature. Don't like doing a ton of coatings.

 BlueSwan wrote:
Have read a lot more today and am currently convinced that I will go the "best of Vallejo" route. So I welcome any suggestions as to which individual colours to get.

Warcolours seems like a bad fit for me, since I am impatient by nature. Don't like doing a ton of coatings.

Well for metallics I stand by VMC, any and all of them, same goes for varnish and mediums, black and especially white.

For VGC I'd recommend grabbing all 3 skin tones (dwarf, elf and the lighter one), some grays, some blues, scrufulous Brown, jade green, imperial purple I think it's called, and turquoise...

From there think about what projects you have planned and what sort of base color and highlight you'll need for each part.

The air line is decent for silver's because it's thin but you can thin VMC with water even, and in my experience the colored air metallics are garbage because they separate too much.

For washes the Vallejo ones are ok by really the gw washes are much better.

Best of luck!

 Gunzhard wrote:

 BlueSwan wrote:
Have read a lot more today and am currently convinced that I will go the "best of Vallejo" route. So I welcome any suggestions as to which individual colours to get.

Warcolours seems like a bad fit for me, since I am impatient by nature. Don't like doing a ton of coatings.

Well for metallics I stand by VMC, any and all of them, same goes for varnish and mediums, black and especially white.

For VGC I'd recommend grabbing all 3 skin tones (dwarf, elf and the lighter one), some grays, some blues, scrufulous Brown, jade green, imperial purple I think it's called, and turquoise...

From there think about what projects you have planned and what sort of base color and highlight you'll need for each part.

The air line is decent for silver's because it's thin but you can thin VMC with water even, and in my experience the colored air metallics are garbage because they separate too much.

For washes the Vallejo ones are ok by really the gw washes are much better.

Best of luck!

Thanks! There doesn't seem to be an "imperial purple" though. There's "Imperial blue" or "Royal Purple" and some others...

I was in a very similar situation about a year ago. I got back into the hobby with nothing at 31 living in a condo where storage is always a battle.

I researched and went for VGC. While Gw might be better, they are more expensive and the bottles are a huge mess. I just buy a few paints at a time when I identify a need. I have about 25 now. My store stocks Vmc, VGC, and vma, aswell as reaper p3, Gw and army painter.

For storage I bought a scrap booking box from an art store for 5 bucks. It's the perfect height to store Vallejo bottles, it's pretty similar to the case from Vallejo.

I would say pick a line like VGC, but don't be afraid to try others. I use army painter matte black for the edges of bases and it's great for that.

Once you get paints, get good brushes. The difference is vast. After many months using average p3 brushes I just got a Windsor and newton detail brush and it is many times better. Also I'd recommend a wet pallete, and a multi tier fishing tackle box to store modelling supplies.

I can deploy my modelling stuff from the closet and back in 5 mins


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also as stated above, I've used both Vallejo and Gw washes and they are very different. Vallejo needs some thinner unless you want a very strong effect. Also Vallejo washes dry pure matte for me, while Gw tends to gloss a bit even if shaken to the extreme

Phew, I might be about to buy way too much stuff...I'm just compiling a shopping list at an online site that has most of the Vallejo stuff (not the Panzer aces line though). So far my shopping list looks like this:

Winsor & Newton Series 7 sizes 1, 0 and 00. I have been painting with crappy brushes so far. Would like some quality stuff. Not sure about sizes, but I'm thinking that those three would probably be good...

Some nice paint stands to hold all of the massive amounts of paint bottles on the list below.

Vallejo Game Color 72 paint box set. So...the idea was to NOT do the boxset, but I am somewhat reconsidering. I do get a lot of colours and the box itself sells for quite a bit of money, so I guess I could sell off the box and in turn actually have saved quite a bit on the paints.

Anyway, I guess I could stop at that box, but I'm being tempted into getting quite a bit more:

- The VGC Special Effects set. This set looks kinda neat.

- The full 16 bottle VCG Extra Opague colors set. Supposedly, this is the VMC formula with a VGC logo. I figured that these would be useful. Stop me if I'm wrong!

- Metallics: VMA silver, steel and black metal. Scale75 Elven Gold, Dwarven Gold, Necro Gold and Viking Gold. Sure hope those Scale75 golds are worth it...

- Rounding out the VGC collection there were a few other colors that looked interesting: VGC Ice Blue, Pale Yellow, Elfic Flesh, Cadmium Skin, Rosy Flesh, Steel Grey.

- A whole bunch of VMC stuff: Oxford Blue, Blue Violet, Hull Red, Ivory, Vermillion Red, Pale Greyblue, Lemon Yellow, Sky Blue, Iraqi Sand, Light Green Blue, Violet Red, Dark Grey, Deck Tan.

- A bunch of mediums.

In total, that is 123 bottles of paint, mediums, etc. Current price 363 Euros. That seems a tad on the side of overkill. Ideally, I'd like to get it down to around 100 bottles, but I'm not sure what to cut. Something else I'm considering is dorpping the extra VGC bottles and finding reasonable equivalents in the VMC line.


PS: I already have the Ink line from Army Painter, so I didn't bother with any washes or inks. Not sure if this is a mistake.

Haha awesome! ...well I don't have much experience with scale75 golds, but the VMC brass and gold are excellent (my favorites in fact).

I have many Opaque but I never use them. I tend to paint with very thinned mixes and regular VGC are just better suited for that - but I suppose they'd be good for base coats.

Inks and washes are very different. The inks you talk about are good, but for washes GW really are the easiest to use with the nicest results. The Vallejo washes aren't as smart about flowing into just the crevasses and will leave the entire area very 'dirtied' which might be ok if you plan re-apply the paint after, but it also is extremely Matte and just looks off to me usually.

W&N brushes are also an excellent choice. The tips are so nice that you can do pretty much everything, including razor sharp lines with the size 1 - and they hold the paint the best too. Size 0 is pretty useful for tiny details and you might like 00, but even for eyes I never go below 0, the tips are good enough you could do eyes with the 1 or larger likely.

I love VGC Ice Blue too and VMC sky blue as well. I think the VGC set is probably gonna be an awesome buy, if you get it, or not it looks like you're on the right track here anyway. Best of luck.

 BlueSwan wrote:
- The full 16 bottle VCG Extra Opague colors set. Supposedly, this is the VMC formula with a VGC logo. I figured that these would be useful. Stop me if I'm wrong!

They are the exact same paints according to the Model Paints FAQ directly from Vallejo.

 Ghaz wrote:

 BlueSwan wrote:
- The full 16 bottle VCG Extra Opague colors set. Supposedly, this is the VMC formula with a VGC logo. I figured that these would be useful. Stop me if I'm wrong!

They are the exact same paints according to the Model Paints FAQ directly from Vallejo.

Good to know! ...thanks for the link. That also explains why the VMC metallics have such great coverage even when thinned, and why the VMC colors are pain to super-dilute with water for glazes.

My goto glazes are super-thinned VGC Royal Purple and VGC Jade Green... they go so well together on any weapon, armour or non-human skin.

Well....I just went ahead and pulled the trigger on that order...and also got several different liquitex bottles and some Masters Brush Cleaner. At least now when my paintings suck it is not gonna be due to a lack of quality stuff. Anyway, it will be 5-10 days before it arrives. I hope I don't regret it. It is quite a bit of money.