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By a mistake I have accidentally deleted Ketara's thread, and I am very sorry.

Hopefully Legoburner may be able to restore it since it was an interesting thread.

In the meantime, please continue discussion here.

We are in a massive mess.

You have the governing party having to choose between an anti gay, pro fix hunting, Walter mitty banker, or a right wing anti immigration focused individual who thought it was a good idea to have vans drive around london with "go home" in massive letters.

One of these two will be responsible for negotiating our exit from the European Union, which after a mess of a campaign with half truths and lies from both sides, is looking like the worst decision since Tony decided he knew best about Iraq.

The opposition is fighting itself, led by a man which would be perfect if he could actually lead, instead mumbles and bumbles his way through his tenure, more interested in his hopeless quest for a mythical new way of politics.

All under the shadow of a media that has ultimate control of who sits where.

On the up side... We've got... Um... It's great for British exports! Or so they keep saying.

And the Irish passport office.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Hopefully Legoburner may be able to restore it since it was an interesting thread.

If that's not possible, you can pull nearly all of it out of Google's cache, which I think runs almost right up to the inadvertent deletion:




The dark lords of the internet have apparent decreed that we will never again speak of whatever black deeds occurred on page 18.

 theCrowe wrote:

And the Irish passport office.

We are renewing my son's passport at the moment (he has Irish citizenship) and the application form has a note on it reminding people that the UK will be in the EU for at least 2 years yet so there is no need to rush

I've been reviewing the results of last year's Labour leadership elections, and was reminded that Eagle came 4th, yes 4th, in the deputy leadership contest.

And now this Blairite, who voted for the Iraq invasion, and who is at odds with the party's grassroots, think she can topple Corbyn when she couldn't even secure the deputy leadership post...

This won't end well. I'm expecting a SDP style split any day soon. The centre won't hold...

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I've been reviewing the results of last year's Labour leadership elections, and was reminded that Eagle came 4th, yes 4th, in the deputy leadership contest.

And now this Blairite, who voted for the Iraq invasion, and who is at odds with the party's grassroots, think she can topple Corbyn when she couldn't even secure the deputy leadership post...

This won't end well. I'm expecting a SDP style split any day soon. The centre won't hold...

Also, her local party supports Corbyn.



It's very funny.

The Blairite faction can bugger off to the Lib Dems, see how that suits them.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I've been reviewing the results of last year's Labour leadership elections, and was reminded that Eagle came 4th, yes 4th, in the deputy leadership contest.

And now this Blairite, who voted for the Iraq invasion, and who is at odds with the party's grassroots, think she can topple Corbyn when she couldn't even secure the deputy leadership post...

This won't end well. I'm expecting a SDP style split any day soon. The centre won't hold...

I have been waiting for a split since the end of Blairs reign. I don't think anyone in the party has the stomach to branch out on their own. There could be a few that up sticks to alternative parties but an SDP style affair is asking for too many to get out of their comfort zones, and comfy seats.

All the while the tories manage to get by with constant infighting and backstabbing.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Thebiggesthat wrote:
The Blairite faction can bugger off to the Lib Dems, see how that suits them.

Ideologically they have more in common with the neo liberals on the blue side of the house.

There are Blairite groups in both the Tories and Labour, and its my opinion that they should just embrace each other as a new party and drop this pathetic charade.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I've been reviewing the results of last year's Labour leadership elections, and was reminded that Eagle came 4th, yes 4th, in the deputy leadership contest.

And now this Blairite, who voted for the Iraq invasion, and who is at odds with the party's grassroots, think she can topple Corbyn when she couldn't even secure the deputy leadership post...

This won't end well. I'm expecting a SDP style split any day soon. The centre won't hold...

If she runs, she's probably falling on her sword. I daresay another candidate with a better chance of success will enter and win, but she'll take a hit politically. If they don't, she'll lose. But they all want her to be the first, so imagine the last week has been spent with others trying to convince her that it's in her interests to run (when it isn't).

I'm disappointed with upcoming politicians frankly - this was a golden opportunity to totally reform the leading political parties into something which better represented the spread of opinion and we just got more of yesterday's politicians.

Next election i'm voting for an independent MP or myself.

The thing is that to get into politics is very difficult unless you join an existing party.

UKIP and Farage had a damn good go with a major single issue to campaign on. After 15 years they got one MP, who was a defector from the Tories. This illustrates a problem with the FPTP system.

Single issue protest candidates have been elected occasionally. Jon Snow got elected by surfing the wave of disgust with Neil Hamilton. A senior consultant got elected in Hampshire or somewhere by campaigning specifically on the proposed closure of the local hospital.

Other new parties include the SDP, who were defectors from Labour in the early 1980s, and the Referendum Party (Sir James Goldsmith) another single issue party like UKIP, and of course the Green Party who have international connections. Only the Greens are still going.

The SNP and Plaid Cymru were also one issue parties but they have managed to break out of the pure Independence movement towards a broader platform of government. They found this easier thanks to the creation of the devolved assemblies. English or UK National parties do not have that chance and must try to grow the hard way.

Therefore the best way to enter politics if you want to create a broad platform is to join an existing party and change it from within. We've seen this before in the Labour Party with the Militant Tendency of the 1980s, which certainly helped make Labour unelectable for 10-15 years. When you look at John Major's victory in 1992 it's amazing that Labour could not have done better, and it reflects the distrust at the time of left wing Labour politics.

Blair won a massive Labour victory in 1997 by (A) not being the Tories who by then were widely hated and (B) being nearly as right wing as the Tories. By the early 2000s it was evident that the Liberal Democratic Party was more left wing than mainstream New Labour.

Corbyn's leadership is evidence that there is an appetite in the country for a far more left-wing Labour party.

Can a medium hard left Labour party make good numbers at the polls?

Could Labour split into two parties? Who would win the majority and retain the main party organisation and funds? Where would the dissidents go?

Is it at all possible that the Conservative Party could split?

I really hope the labour party machine doesn't block Corbyn running in this contest on a technicality as i'm sure that would split the party,

the parliamentary party keeps the name and funds but crashs and burns like they did in scotland

although letting him run and win (my guess as to the result) might well result in a split anyway with at least some of the current MPs abandoning ship, but I think most of them will swallow their pride and abide by the wishes of their constituents

Corbyn keeps the name and funds, but looses a number of MPs who hang around as independants and then fade out of politics

of course it would all be moot if somebody stood against corbyn and won, but even then I could see a lot of the younger more left wing new party members giving up on labour (and maybe politics and voting) totally if they do

the parliamentary party keeps the name and funds, but party membership crashes again and a number of unions withdraw their cash meaning the party can't properly fund any further election campaigns

whatever happens I don't think the lib dems will benefit, they are still a toxic brand for their partnership with the conservatives, the are on the opposite side of the brexit debate to the labour voters who were considering moving their votes (mainly to UKIP) and their leader was even more useless than corbyn in the referendum debates

so the potential winners are the conservatives (who will briefly pull together when the leadership fight is over having made the requisite blood sacrifices),

and UKIP if it manages to carry on without Farrage (who's personal popularity kept it afloat every time it messed up by letting the real nutters in it's ranks speak), without his inexplicable attraction I suspect voters will be more inclined to listen to the media screaming racism, fascism, incompetence, no actual policies etc

If the Labour Party should split into hard left and soft left sections, the soft left would find a welcome in the Liberals, I think, and this would enhance Liberal power and influence which would be a good thing.

With the Tories seemingly moving to the right, this would give UK voters three distinct options, plus the SNP as a major force in Scotland. Assuming Scotland does not split off, the SNP would be likely to ally with the New Labour Party or the Liberal Democrats.

Farage will be heard from again, I am sure. He's going to lose his cushy job as a Euro MP, and he will have to make up the money somehow. However I don't think he will make a major impact on politics by himself and I don't believe he will have a party to be head of.

I was wondering why the thread just disappeared. Right when I was trying to post something too.

Apparently Jeremy Hunt is trying to impose the contract on Junior Doctors again.

Let's see how well that turns out this time.

Also, this graphic is a bit amusing as a comparison of how the government spins figures:

Hunt is desperate to push this new contract to save money for Osborne. He's thrown every piece of evidence out of the window regarding it, lied through his teeth, and as a result is one of the few Tory politicians who I find the dislike of by the left fully justified.

In the end Hunt probably will ram through the new contract. The number of doctors available will be reduced by various forms of refusal, and the NHS will bimble on somewhat worse than before. Probably no money will be saved because hospitals will have to rely on expensive locums who will be their former doctors having left for private practice.

In Tory Leadership news:

The BBC wrote:Theresa May will promise to put workers on the boards of major firms and curb excess corporate pay, as she starts her campaign to be Tory leader and PM.

Both these are EU ideas that the UK government of the day greeted with horror when they were proposed.

That's a weak sop to the left and the working classes. Any "represenrative" sitting on a board will be purely tokenism and with no power or authority. Without a union behind them, you might as well not bother.

Anyone with even half a mind will see that.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
....
In Tory Leadership news:

The BBC wrote:Theresa May will promise to put workers on the boards of major firms and curb excess corporate pay, as she starts her campaign to be Tory leader and PM.

Both these are EU ideas that the UK government of the day greeted with horror when they were proposed.

Should a good idea (you seem to indicate it is) not be implemented no matter the source?

This would indicate decent leadership rather than dogmatic partisanship.

Absolutely. The workers' councils seem to work very well in Germany, for example.

It's just ironic that the power elite that reacted with horror to these EU initiatives when proposed now plans to bring them into the UK in preparation for leaving the EU.

Of course it's probably all just talk.

 Ketara wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I've been reviewing the results of last year's Labour leadership elections, and was reminded that Eagle came 4th, yes 4th, in the deputy leadership contest.

And now this Blairite, who voted for the Iraq invasion, and who is at odds with the party's grassroots, think she can topple Corbyn when she couldn't even secure the deputy leadership post...

This won't end well. I'm expecting a SDP style split any day soon. The centre won't hold...

If she runs, she's probably falling on her sword. I daresay another candidate with a better chance of success will enter and win, but she'll take a hit politically. If they don't, she'll lose. But they all want her to be the first, so imagine the last week has been spent with others trying to convince her that it's in her interests to run (when it isn't).

I read an interesting stat that says 80% of Labour grassroots organisations are backing Corbyn, but 80% of Labour MPs want Corbyn out...

This is irresistible force against immovable object on a scale not seen for a long time!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I've been reviewing the results of last year's Labour leadership elections, and was reminded that Eagle came 4th, yes 4th, in the deputy leadership contest.

And now this Blairite, who voted for the Iraq invasion, and who is at odds with the party's grassroots, think she can topple Corbyn when she couldn't even secure the deputy leadership post...

This won't end well. I'm expecting a SDP style split any day soon. The centre won't hold...

I have been waiting for a split since the end of Blairs reign. I don't think anyone in the party has the stomach to branch out on their own. There could be a few that up sticks to alternative parties but an SDP style affair is asking for too many to get out of their comfort zones, and comfy seats.

All the while the tories manage to get by with constant infighting and backstabbing.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Thebiggesthat wrote:
The Blairite faction can bugger off to the Lib Dems, see how that suits them.

Ideologically they have more in common with the neo liberals on the blue side of the house.

I too was of the mind that most of these Labour MPs wouldn't have the guts to break away, but if the Tories get their act together, and victory in 2020 looks like a faint hope...anything can happen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rosebuddy wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I've been reviewing the results of last year's Labour leadership elections, and was reminded that Eagle came 4th, yes 4th, in the deputy leadership contest.

And now this Blairite, who voted for the Iraq invasion, and who is at odds with the party's grassroots, think she can topple Corbyn when she couldn't even secure the deputy leadership post...

This won't end well. I'm expecting a SDP style split any day soon. The centre won't hold...

Also, her local party supports Corbyn.



It's very funny.

Yeah, Eagle's local party are trying to de-select her or taking steps to achieve this. What a mess.

I've just watched Eagles interview on yesterdays Andrew Neil show.

Good god, she's a poor candidate. She sounded utterly depressed, was dodging questions, repeating the blandest of soundbites and is generally the exact type of Westminster drone that the populace have grown to dislike.

If Corbyn gets on the ballot (which I think he will), she will be smashed. And then what? The Labour MPs have gone too far to just bend the knee to Corbyn.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Absolutely. The workers' councils seem to work very well in Germany, for example.

It's just ironic that the power elite...

From what I've read, May isn't really one of the power elite in the colloquial sense (Quincy Wright excluded). She's not one of the Old Boy's club that Bojo, Gove, Cameron, Osborne and so forth belong to. She did Geography at Oxford instead of PPE or History or politics, and she's not exactly made a huge number of friends in Government. Her dad was a clergyman instead of minor gentry or rich businessman. I read a quote in the Times once from a supposed Whitehall insider, who said that she was only ever chosen as 'the best of a bad lot of token women' and it's why they handed her the supposedly cursed brief of Home Secretary (so that it wouldn't affect one of the more serious male contenders when it went pear shaped). The Times journalist speculated her successful tenure there is because she's a 6am-6pm office worker who refuses to leave the details to the civil servants and concentrate entirely on policy and politics, like most ministers.

As a slightly religious gal, she's opposed most things relating to LGBT rights over the years, so I'm not massively keen on her because of that. On the other hand, she's been the driving force behind the Government opposing things like FGM. So whilst she's not the PM I'd pick, she's probably closer to us working schmoes than any of Cameron's other cronies.

Prime Minister May it is then.

Pistols at Dawn wrote:
Prime Minister May it is then.

For a split second I thought...........

... be weird when the Queen opens the parliament, with Queen eh ?





is that an actual job ..?

Worse thing is when you see the 2 penis' in the Peston logo.

Burnt onto your retina for all time now.

Apologies.

Holy gak! haha. I can't unsee that! Brilliant lol.

This post-referendum world is proving to be quite strange!

So 3 penises in total in that image then.