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By that criteria, every election in human history would have charges brought aginst it.
Weren't we suposed to be fighting in David Cameron's World War Three by now?
Well only from when the law applies.
Not arguing that there were silly statements from both sides though! Maybe they should just lock them all up and get it over and done with?
Both camps used the referendum as a platform for cheap sniping and one up manship..They already have a designated place for that.
The pub bar in parliament? I suppose the point is that there is an open complaint and it will be interesting to see where it leads.
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
You know, if there were such a thing, I think that you'd see superior results from Parliament. Or at least better thought out legislation. Send a cask of Black Rock up to the house of lords. That'll set them right.
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
You know, if there were such a thing, I think that you'd see superior results from Parliament. Or at least better thought out legislation.
There are such things, and we don't.
We do get a few good news stories about punch-ups every so often, though.
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
Fancy a warming bowl of homemade soup? At the Terrace, leek and potato soup is just 95p, while roast chicken with bread sauce, gravy and watercress is £3.55. If MPs are still feeing peckish afterwards, they can warm up with caramelised apple sponge with custard for £1.05.
At the Members' Dining Room, chargrilled rib-eye steak and chips with tomato, mushrooms and béarnaise sauce is just £7.80, while a cheese selection from Wales with biscuits and accompaniments is £3.10.
Over in the Portcullis cafetaria, a turkey and coriander burger in a ciabatta bun with guacamole costs £3.55.
DINNER
Come sundown, MPs can tuck into a three-course meal, featuring dishes such as bruschetta topped with tomato and quail egg or steak, for £15 in the Members' Dining Room.
Even the more expensive restaurants, such as Strangers' Dining Room, offer excellent value. Gressingham duck breast with with spring onion, pickled shiitake mushrooms, herbs and soy reduction costs £13.55. For comparison, at Roux at Parliament Square - just a hop, skip and a jump from the Commons - roast Gressingham duck breast with sprouting broccoli and cipolline onions is £28.
As for drinks, a small glass of Sauvignon Blanc is £2.75 in the Smoking Room bar, while 25ml of an eight-year-old whisky is £2.55. At Strangers', the cheapest pint of beer is £2.90 (the London average is £3.79), whilst a cappucino or latte is around £1.30. We reckon we'd miss that subsidy.
One sometimes wonders if they think all food prices are like that hence their confusion with regards to benefits, cost of living etc etc
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Jeez, reds8n you know, just know that there are some who berate the plebs for whinging whilst laying down a 20 for a steak flipping dinner making sure they collect the receipt for expenses.
In a normal year, we'd all sit back and relax, and watch in horror as the USA election circus rolled into town. We'd feel smug, and glad that British politics never turned into that.
welshhoppo wrote: I just figured they were added to the expenses tab as "crucial parliamentary outgoings"
Quite possibly but everyone is are charged the same prices as MPs/members of staff.
Certainly the lunches I have had there were top notch and about half the price of even a basic café in London.
Eh?
You were lunching at Parliament with taxpayers like me picking up the tab!!!!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
welshhoppo wrote: I just figured they were added to the expenses tab as "crucial parliamentary outgoings"
If it were up to me, bread and water would be all they were entitled to. And they would be told to be grateful they were getting anything!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/08 10:39:18
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: In a normal year, we'd all sit back and relax, and watch in horror as the USA election circus rolled into town. We'd feel smug, and glad that British politics never turned into that.
welshhoppo wrote: I just figured they were added to the expenses tab as "crucial parliamentary outgoings"
Quite possibly but everyone is are charged the same prices as MPs/members of staff.
Certainly the lunches I have had there were top notch and about half the price of even a basic café in London.
Eh?
You were lunching at Parliament with taxpayers like me picking up the tab!!!!
Reframe it - Every taxpayer has the right to a subsidized lunch/dinner @ Westminster Palace!
Personally I think that finding the perfect steak & accoutrements is exactly what 20% of my income over £11,000 to £43,000 should be invested in, with the benefits shared out to the general population.
Some people find the idea that other people can be happy offensive, and will prefer causing harm to self improvement.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: In a normal year, we'd all sit back and relax, and watch in horror as the USA election circus rolled into town. We'd feel smug, and glad that British politics never turned into that.
welshhoppo wrote: I just figured they were added to the expenses tab as "crucial parliamentary outgoings"
Quite possibly but everyone is are charged the same prices as MPs/members of staff.
Certainly the lunches I have had there were top notch and about half the price of even a basic café in London.
Eh?
You were lunching at Parliament with taxpayers like me picking up the tab!!!!
Reframe it - Every taxpayer has the right to a subsidized lunch/dinner @ Westminster Palace!
Personally I think that finding the perfect steak & accoutrements is exactly what 20% of my income over £11,000 to £43,000 should be invested in, with the benefits shared out to the general population.
I'm a vegetarian, and I'll be damned if anybody is getting free steak at my expense!
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: In a normal year, we'd all sit back and relax, and watch in horror as the USA election circus rolled into town. We'd feel smug, and glad that British politics never turned into that.
welshhoppo wrote: I just figured they were added to the expenses tab as "crucial parliamentary outgoings"
Quite possibly but everyone is are charged the same prices as MPs/members of staff.
Certainly the lunches I have had there were top notch and about half the price of even a basic café in London.
Eh?
You were lunching at Parliament with taxpayers like me picking up the tab!!!!
Reframe it - Every taxpayer has the right to a subsidized lunch/dinner @ Westminster Palace!
Personally I think that finding the perfect steak & accoutrements is exactly what 20% of my income over £11,000 to £43,000 should be invested in, with the benefits shared out to the general population.
I'm a vegetarian, and I'll be damned if anybody is getting free steak at my expense!
Shucks. well then how about *I* pay for those and you pay for the drinks?
Some people find the idea that other people can be happy offensive, and will prefer causing harm to self improvement.
"Anna Turley MP @annaturley 18h
Here is the camera I found which was placed under the stool on which the sandwiches were placed for our private meeting at #sportsdirect"
Classy move there Sports Direct !
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
A cunning disguise results in a camera disguised as a camera. That'll fool them!
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Ketara wrote: I love the fact they were suspicious enough to check for bugs first.
I don't think it worked like that. *Apparently* according the local news (East Midlands Today). They were served sandwiches and the MP got suspicious that the person bringing them in took an unusually long time to drop off a plate of sandwiches after which they saw where the person was faffing about there now appeared to be this recording device under the chair.
Possibly Sports Direct will come out and say they do record such things so they can understand and improve the sandwiches they provide (as long as it doesn't involve changing from dried bread and leathery chicken... )
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/08 12:27:41
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
Ketara wrote: I love the fact they were suspicious enough to check for bugs first.
I read in the paper the MP's were suspicious of the lady that brought in the tray of sandwiches, took a long time to place them all and then put said camera under a stool.
Blofeld Mike Ashley is not.
How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website "
Ketara wrote: I love the fact they were suspicious enough to check for bugs first.
I read in the paper the MP's were suspicious of the lady that brought in the tray of sandwiches, took a long time to place them all and then put said camera under a stool.
Blofeld Mike Ashley is not.
Took a long time eh? Making the most of her zero hours contract I expect.
"The Scottish government is to attempt to intervene in the UK government's appeal to the Supreme Court over the triggering of Article 50.
The High Court ruled last week that MPs must vote on whether the UK can start the process of leaving the EU.
The UK government immediately said it would appeal to the Supreme Court, with a hearing due next month.
The Lord Advocate, Scotland's most senior law officer, will now apply to be heard in the case."
"The Scottish government is to attempt to intervene in the UK government's appeal to the Supreme Court over the triggering of Article 50.
The High Court ruled last week that MPs must vote on whether the UK can start the process of leaving the EU.
The UK government immediately said it would appeal to the Supreme Court, with a hearing due next month.
The Lord Advocate, Scotland's most senior law officer, will now apply to be heard in the case."
Most people know on dakka know of my support of Scottish independence, but I've got to disagree with the SNP on this one. I wish to hell they'd keep away from this, because they could end up getting more parliamentary sovereignty than they bargained for, especially when it comes to Westminster and another Scottish independence referendum.
By all means, the SNP's MPs should vote against triggering article 50, because Scotland voted to stay in the EU by almost 2/3rds, but they should avoid tabling amendments to the bill, and they should speed Brexit on its way - it only helps Scottish independence.
Anyway, if people have the time, this blog by a lawyer, and a pro-Scottish Independence supporter, makes the argument that Edinburgh and the SNP are wasting their time trying to block Brexit.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
It’s hardly surprising that Theresa May’s first bilateral summit outside Europe was with India’s Narendra Modi. Like almost everything else May has done since taking office, the visit has been all about Brexit. Nor is it surprising that May flies back to London disappointed and chastened. It was painfully visible on her trip that post-Brexit Britain still hasn’t learned that it no longer carries the economic heft to win deals on its own terms. And until Britain works out what sort of economy it intends to be, nobody is going to be interested in investing in its future either.
The prospect of a revived “special relationship” with India was one slightly Orientalist leitmotif of the victorious Leave campaign. Great Britain hardly needs these cantankerous continentals, the Leavers argued; the grateful nations of the Commonwealth -- and especially its most populous and dynamic component, India -- would once again open their bustling bazaars to British goods, easily making up for any lost markets in Europe. May flew to New Delhi with 33 captains of British industry, hailing the dawn of a new “age of opportunity." She promised that deals would be signed on the visit that “created and secured jobs at home” and “demonstrated market confidence in the strength of the British economy."
It's true that India should find it easier to sign a trade deal with the U.K. than with the entire European Union. While negotiations over an India-EU free trade agreement have almost broken down, few of the objections came from Britain. Modi has a penchant for big announcements; May is desperate for someone to show faith in post-Brexit Britain.
There’s also lots of room for the Indo-U.K. trade relationship to grow. Financial links between the two countries run deep. The U.K. is the largest G-20 investor in India, for example, and Indian companies have made high-profile purchases in Britain. But trade with the U.K. only represents 2 percent of India’s total. During the time period Leavers venerate, misty-eyed, the numbers were indeed very different: India bought a third of British exports in the 1950s.
Yet it beggars belief that anyone could think that the only thing that's happened in the interim was that Britain joined the European Union and abandoned its old imperial trading links. Those developments pale into insignificance when compared to the rise of Asia and the growth of world trade in general. India now makes a lot more at home, and -- like everyone else -- buys the rest from China. The British brands that were once household names in the former colonies are swiftly being forgotten. There's little reason why any Indian should prefer them to Korean, American -- or yes, German -- products.
In any case, this fond hope that Britain can once again be a goods-exporting powerhouse mistakes the kind of economy the U.K. needs to become post-Europe. The global economy today hardly needs or can support another high-cost location for manufacturing. Instead, a Britain freed of European regulations could well seek to become the world’s premier location for free-wheeling entrepreneurship, for high-end services exports and for innovation. It already has many advantages -- the English language, a well-known legal framework -- if it seeks to go down that path.
But there’s simply no way to square that vision with the kind of immigration restrictions the Brexiteers are demanding. For that sort of dynamism to take root, the U.K will need to lower barriers to students and to skilled migrants. To beat the best in the world, companies and start-ups will have to hire the best in the world, without worrying about visa restrictions or government “lists” of their employees. And yes, as in California, lower-skilled migration will also continue to be necessary in order to keep the economy in balance -- otherwise costs will explode and render it uncompetitive.
Yet currently, citizens of countries like India have to jump through hoops for British visas, which take ages to get and are far more expensive than their European or American equivalents. In recent years, Whitehall has disallowed Indian companies from transferring employees in and out and has made it drastically more difficult for foreign students in British universities to look for work after they finish their degrees. The number of Indian students dropped 10 percent last year as a result.
No less than Europe, India doesn't for a moment intend to allow favorable market access to a Britain that shuts itself off to migrants. As one of India’s top civil servants said to May in Delhi: “There’s no such thing as selective free trade.” If Britain wants Indian markets, it will need to open itself up to Indian migrants and Indian service providers.
And if a Britain outside Europe wants to imagine itself as an Atlantic Singapore, it will have to be, like Singapore, open to all sorts of ideas, to free trade, to international capital -- and to immigrants. Unless it realizes that the only future it has left is as a crossroads of the world, it will condemn itself to becoming a backwater of Europe.
The British economy will be hit by a “permanent cost” of more than £25bn a year if it decides to withdraw from the EU customs union, a new government adviser on Brexit has said.
Raoul Ruparel, who has been hired by David Davis to provide expertise on the process of leaving the EU, said he believed there was no question of the UK staying in Europe’s free-trade bloc.
But he admitted that leaving the customs union, inside which EU countries negotiate trade deals collectively and set common external tariffs, would reduce GDP by between 1 and 1.2% in the long term.
... still ... blue passports though right ?!
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Anyway, if people have the time, this blog by a lawyer, and a pro-Scottish Independence supporter, makes the argument that Edinburgh and the SNP are wasting their time trying to block Brexit.
They're not. All these moves tell their constituents they're fighting for what they decided on the polls.
Of course in the long run it's futile, but it's only more ammunition for their "UK doesn't care about Scotland" line to boost their chances at Indyref2
Anyway, if people have the time, this blog by a lawyer, and a pro-Scottish Independence supporter, makes the argument that Edinburgh and the SNP are wasting their time trying to block Brexit.
They're not. All these moves tell their constituents they're fighting for what they decided on the polls.
Of course in the long run it's futile, but it's only more ammunition for their "UK doesn't care about Scotland" line to boost their chances at Indyref2
Yeah, politically, it makes good sense, but from a legal viewpoint, it's a waste of time, and only serves to make lawyers richer
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
It’s hardly surprising that Theresa May’s first bilateral summit outside Europe was with India’s Narendra Modi. Like almost everything else May has done since taking office, the visit has been all about Brexit. Nor is it surprising that May flies back to London disappointed and chastened. It was painfully visible on her trip that post-Brexit Britain still hasn’t learned that it no longer carries the economic heft to win deals on its own terms. And until Britain works out what sort of economy it intends to be, nobody is going to be interested in investing in its future either.
The prospect of a revived “special relationship” with India was one slightly Orientalist leitmotif of the victorious Leave campaign. Great Britain hardly needs these cantankerous continentals, the Leavers argued; the grateful nations of the Commonwealth -- and especially its most populous and dynamic component, India -- would once again open their bustling bazaars to British goods, easily making up for any lost markets in Europe. May flew to New Delhi with 33 captains of British industry, hailing the dawn of a new “age of opportunity." She promised that deals would be signed on the visit that “created and secured jobs at home” and “demonstrated market confidence in the strength of the British economy."
It's true that India should find it easier to sign a trade deal with the U.K. than with the entire European Union. While negotiations over an India-EU free trade agreement have almost broken down, few of the objections came from Britain. Modi has a penchant for big announcements; May is desperate for someone to show faith in post-Brexit Britain.
There’s also lots of room for the Indo-U.K. trade relationship to grow. Financial links between the two countries run deep. The U.K. is the largest G-20 investor in India, for example, and Indian companies have made high-profile purchases in Britain. But trade with the U.K. only represents 2 percent of India’s total. During the time period Leavers venerate, misty-eyed, the numbers were indeed very different: India bought a third of British exports in the 1950s.
Yet it beggars belief that anyone could think that the only thing that's happened in the interim was that Britain joined the European Union and abandoned its old imperial trading links. Those developments pale into insignificance when compared to the rise of Asia and the growth of world trade in general. India now makes a lot more at home, and -- like everyone else -- buys the rest from China. The British brands that were once household names in the former colonies are swiftly being forgotten. There's little reason why any Indian should prefer them to Korean, American -- or yes, German -- products.
In any case, this fond hope that Britain can once again be a goods-exporting powerhouse mistakes the kind of economy the U.K. needs to become post-Europe. The global economy today hardly needs or can support another high-cost location for manufacturing. Instead, a Britain freed of European regulations could well seek to become the world’s premier location for free-wheeling entrepreneurship, for high-end services exports and for innovation. It already has many advantages -- the English language, a well-known legal framework -- if it seeks to go down that path.
But there’s simply no way to square that vision with the kind of immigration restrictions the Brexiteers are demanding. For that sort of dynamism to take root, the U.K will need to lower barriers to students and to skilled migrants. To beat the best in the world, companies and start-ups will have to hire the best in the world, without worrying about visa restrictions or government “lists” of their employees. And yes, as in California, lower-skilled migration will also continue to be necessary in order to keep the economy in balance -- otherwise costs will explode and render it uncompetitive.
Yet currently, citizens of countries like India have to jump through hoops for British visas, which take ages to get and are far more expensive than their European or American equivalents. In recent years, Whitehall has disallowed Indian companies from transferring employees in and out and has made it drastically more difficult for foreign students in British universities to look for work after they finish their degrees. The number of Indian students dropped 10 percent last year as a result.
No less than Europe, India doesn't for a moment intend to allow favorable market access to a Britain that shuts itself off to migrants. As one of India’s top civil servants said to May in Delhi: “There’s no such thing as selective free trade.” If Britain wants Indian markets, it will need to open itself up to Indian migrants and Indian service providers.
And if a Britain outside Europe wants to imagine itself as an Atlantic Singapore, it will have to be, like Singapore, open to all sorts of ideas, to free trade, to international capital -- and to immigrants. Unless it realizes that the only future it has left is as a crossroads of the world, it will condemn itself to becoming a backwater of Europe.
The British economy will be hit by a “permanent cost” of more than £25bn a year if it decides to withdraw from the EU customs union, a new government adviser on Brexit has said.
Raoul Ruparel, who has been hired by David Davis to provide expertise on the process of leaving the EU, said he believed there was no question of the UK staying in Europe’s free-trade bloc.
But he admitted that leaving the customs union, inside which EU countries negotiate trade deals collectively and set common external tariffs, would reduce GDP by between 1 and 1.2% in the long term.
... still ... blue passports though right ?!
Not having a go at you but my empty wallet will still be empty regardless, and would have remained empty even if we had stayed in the EU.
All this talk of GDP, customs unions, single markets etc etc adds up to a bucket of horsegak as far as I'm concerned.
As I've said before I have no money - how can they threaten to take my money away?
People like me end up getting swept up by the Trumps and Farages of this world
There are serious problems in the UK's economy, and although they might be made worse by BREXIT, staying in the EU would have seen us on a business as usual. holding pattern, and that doesn't help the majority of our countrymen and women, either.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
I'm now starting to wish that Scotland would just go independent. I can't ever see the situation being resolved. The SNP will continue to hold the rest of the UK to ransom, demanding an independence referendum every time things don't go their way. And I guess it's not right to make a country do something they're unhappy with. They did vote to stay in the EU.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/08 13:21:14
Future War Cultist wrote: I'm now starting to wish that Scotland would just go independent. I can't ever see the situation being resolved. The SNP will continue to hold the rest of the UK to ransom, demanding an independence referendum every time things don't go their way. And I guess it's not right to make a country do something they're unhappy with. They did vote to stay in the EU.
Some of the blame has to be placed at Westminster's door for neglecting the federal/devolution issue these last 40 years.
When the new Scotland Bill passed after the 2014 referendum, the SNP asked for full fiscal autonomy, with Westminster holding on to foreign affairs and defence. Westminster said No.
Edinburgh asked for control over corporation tax, like Northern Ireland has. Again, the answer was no. No satisfactorily explanation was given.
VAT and Fisheries could never be devolved because of EU law, but now we're coming out, Edinburgh has asked for these, and Westminster's response was No again, even though their excuse for not devolving these has always been EU law prevented them.
What is Westminster playing at? Yes, I'm slightly biased on this, but it does feel we're getting mucked around, especially with regards to VAT and fisheries.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
