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I knew this would be the courts decision so I'm not bothered about that. What bothers me is that no doubt this isn't the end of the Remainer attempts to prevent article 50 being triggered.

Its already happened. With the Lib Dem leader in House of Lords looking to make amendments to any bill being passed with regards to Article 50 must have a second referendum within it.

Bastards.

Edit: Actually, I say bring it. With the condition that when they lose that one they lie down and feth up about it forever after.

 reds8n wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
.

If you claim your motivation to be the preservation and the defence of the constitution,

..like many of the Brexiteers claimed to be concerned with ?

Parliamentary sovereignty and so forth.

And here it is in action and all of a sudden it's a bad thing ?


Is this the point where we get to say " you lost. get over it ?"

I'm sure we could find a bus to daub it on the side of.


Is it a daft situation ? Yes, absolutely.

For which it's Cameron & May you need to be angry with.

They're the ones who A. worded the ref. specifically so it wouldn't be legally binding -- burnt by the Scottish indy result possibly ?

And then B. May for wasting everyone's time and our money on this stupid challenge.

.. TBf I've seen it argued she/the Govt. knew they'd lose and this was more a ploy to but them a wee bit of extra time ... but...well.... I think that seems to indicate more planning than our current crop of politicians seem capable of.

alas.

I have ZERO problem with Parliamentary sovereignty.

I do have a problem with people who claim to be acting to protect parliamentary sovereignty only to then start banging on about the single market and tariffs, as their lawyers did. One lawyer was talking about British citizens and healthcare in France? WTF has that to do with parliament sovereignty? That is a consequence of parliament's action, not the raison d'etre of th existence of parliamentary sovereignty.

I don't need to tell you that parliament's authority covers health, defence, foreign etc etc.

so why bring up the single market?

And yeah, Farage is an idiot.

So your argument that they obviously didn't care about Parliamentary sovereignty is so far reliant on something which happened almost 30 years ago, when Gina Millar was 21?

For the Healthcare in France, if Britain leaves the EU and fails to set up an agreement with the EU about payment of health costs, then UK citizens living in the EU will have lost some of their previously held rights. That is why it is a Parliamentary Sovereignty issue. Those rights were granted by the UK joining the EU through a parliamentary act and so can only be removed by a parliamentary act.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
So your argument that they obviously didn't care about Parliamentary sovereignty is so far reliant on something which happened almost 30 years ago, when Gina Millar was 21?

Yes

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


I have ZERO problem with Parliamentary sovereignty.

FWIW that's certainly not how it's sounding.

I do have a problem with people who claim to be acting to protect parliamentary sovereignty only to then start banging on about the single market and tariffs,

I have a problem with people who pretend to be concerned with parliamentary sovereignty but then start banging on about immigration, write lies on the side of a bus and then deny anything bad will happen whilst parroting recycled nazi propaganda and endless streams of lies about the EU


-- no one here to clarify --

but such is the age we live in.

And yeah, Farage is an idiot.

You'll note as well as his new Alan Partreich role on LBC he is now also working for Fox News.... one might wonder when he might fit his day job in but you'll note his supporters seem quite quiet about this.

Last time I checked he had the 2nd worse attendance record of any MEP -- the only one worse than him being an Irish MEP who is paralysed from the waist down.


.. that said he's richer than any of us will ever be -- even more so due to the collapse in the value of the £ -- so whose the stupid one really eh ?

I'm not taking the blame for the bus, 350 trillion a week, or the stand off on the Thames with Geldof!

Not guilty guv.

if I hadn't watched it there's almost way you could persuade me that the Thames face off ever happened.

Sitcom come to life.

strange days indeed.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I knew this would be the courts decision so I'm not bothered about that. What bothers me is that no doubt this isn't the end of the Remainer attempts to prevent article 50 being triggered.

That sounds like democracy in action, to me.

I'm certain that the challenge over Parliamentary sovereignty was launched to try and delay Brexit. That being said, if it is the case May was overreaching her authority (as indeed appears to have been the case), then the challenge was legitimate, and the correct procedure should now be followed. If the LIb Dems try and kill it in the Lords, all they will do is lose votes and spur the government on to reform it (finally) even if they succeed.

No sadness or ire from the Govt. it seems, quite the opposite in fact.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38730907

Going through the motions it seems.

Agree fully with both of the above.


...er... subject to later editing of course !

 Henry wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Only the lawyers have profited from this

May wanted to exert powers that she didn't have. It is to everyone's benefit that a government be told that it is not above the law.

I was in support of the case as I do believe that things must be done properly. We've come through a lot of hardship to get to where we are and we can't throw it all away to sate the braying of the ignorant mob

But... Dier Dos Santos's lawyer said something very revealing at the end. The government needs parliament's consent as article 50 affects laws and rights of UK citizens. May wants to get article 50 enacted by the end of March. I can't find the exact quote but Dos Santos' lawyer effectively said that the government wouldn't be able to get a vote through both houses which completely covered all the laws and rights that leaving the EU brought up.

So, even if the vote does go through you can expect this lot to try to bring a case that parliament wasn't given enough time to discuss and so the parliamentary vote shouldn't count. Their true colours are indeed being exposed.

To be fair, if the Leave Act does not enumerate the proper set of rights and so on, it should not go through Parliament because either something important could be left out, or something dodgy could be inserted. Either of these happening could balls up the whole thing and waste even more time.

If this upsets the more impatient among us, please bear in mind that May set the completely arbitrary timetable of A50 in March, and then caused weeks of unnecessary delay by not going to Parliament right at the outset of the process.

The Article 50 court ruling has really drawn out the swivel eyed loons.

The sheer quantity of ignorant and impotent bile is just tragic.

 Ketara wrote:
I'm certain that the challenge over Parliamentary sovereignty was launched to try and delay Brexit. That being said, if it is the case May was overreaching her authority (as indeed appears to have been the case), then the challenge was legitimate, and the correct procedure should now be followed. If the LIb Dems try and kill it in the Lords, all they will do is lose votes and spur the government on to reform it (finally) even if they succeed.

I suspect the Lib-Dems will gain votes in areas that are pro-Remain, and lose them in areas that are pro-Leave. The Richmond Park by-election was a signifier of this.

Of course Lib-Dem has traditionally always been strong in the south-west, and this is an area that by and large voted Leave, so maybe it will not be a good strategy for them. OTOH if they lose power in the south-west, they may gain power in places liek London and Oxford that are fairly pro-Remain.

Bear in mind that the long-term objective of the Lib-Dems is to gain votes and become more electable whatever the result of Brexit.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

I suspect the Lib-Dems will gain votes in areas that are pro-Remain, and lose them in areas that are pro-Leave. The Richmond Park by-election was a signifier of this.

It's not quite as simple as this though. The only major party that gained in the Sleaford byelection was the LDs. Labour got smashed and both Tories and UKIP were down
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/09/conservatives-hold-sleaford-north-hykeham-by-election/

Obviously Tories still won by a mile but it must be worrying for May that even strongholds are losing the share (so pro-EU people are migrating to LD as they are the only party that are pro-EU and aren't trying to drive either the country or their party off a cliff). LD's might not care about the SW if they make significant strides in London. In addition as it is still a FPTP system some areas might not need much of a swing from pro-EU people to make a significant difference if they can sap both Tory and Labour supporters. It will be interesting to see what happens with the upcoming by elections and if this same trend continues.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
The Article 50 court ruling has really drawn out the swivel eyed loons.

The sheer quantity of ignorant and impotent bile is just tragic.

As much as I agree about the bile that, never mind this ruling, the entire referendum has dredged up, I can't help but feel that calling people "swivel eyed loons" won't exactly help.

 Avatar 720 wrote:

As much as I agree about the bile that, never mind this ruling, the entire referendum has dredged up, I can't help but feel that calling people "swivel eyed loons" won't exactly help.

Considering some of the absolute gak that I read today its highly appropriate.

Definatly nicola sturgeon and dim tim with all there "amendments" to a simple question of yes activate A50 or not, definatly "swivel eyed loons". Insults and jibes do not help anything and only lower the level of debate.

I'm not sure what Labour plan to do with a parliamentary vote. It seems to me that Corbyn is happy leaving the EU and that regardless the constituencies of many Labour MPs voted out, which rather puts their MPs in the awkward spot voting against the majority of their constituents if they personally oppose brexit. When it sails through Parliament expect fingerpointing from remainers accusing MPs of thinking about their jobs rather than the country.

At this point, a division against the bill would surely trigger a general election. However, I think it is unlikely. The govt will whip their MPs hard.

Skullhammer wrote:
Definatly nicola sturgeon and dim tim with all there "amendments" to a simple question of yes activate A50 or not, definatly "swivel eyed loons".

Trying to have the political will of the Scottish people listened to is completely different to idiotic conspiracy theories and outright racism.

Perhaps you think that gak like "send her (Gina Miller) back on a raft along with the rest" is perfectly sensible political discourse?

One of the problems with any political discourse about Brexit at the moment are the constant use of Leaver and Remainer. These are stereotypes used to vilify, and no longer really serve an actual purpose.
We're all Brits, and we've got a fething great big job to sort out, and constantly banging on about leavtards and remoaners just makes people think you're a daily mail/ huffpost reading dill weed.

There is much in what you say.

The Daily Mail has a lot to answer for. They are going on with it today.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
At this point, a division against the bill would surely trigger a general election. However, I think it is unlikely. The govt will whip their MPs hard.

I've been doing the sums. A few Blairite die hards, plus SNP, Liberals, Plaid, and the 1 Green MP, won't be enough to stop A50 getting the green light, so it should pass with a comfortable majority.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I'm not sure what Labour plan to do with a parliamentary vote. It seems to me that Corbyn is happy leaving the EU and that regardless the constituencies of many Labour MPs voted out, which rather puts their MPs in the awkward spot voting against the majority of their constituents if they personally oppose brexit. When it sails through Parliament expect fingerpointing from remainers accusing MPs of thinking about their jobs rather than the country.

Labour are all over the shop on this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
The Article 50 court ruling has really drawn out the swivel eyed loons.

The sheer quantity of ignorant and impotent bile is just tragic.

As much as I agree about the bile that, never mind this ruling, the entire referendum has dredged up, I can't help but feel that calling people "swivel eyed loons" won't exactly help.

The whole referendum and Brexit saga has been a SHAMBLES from start to finish.

Cameron was panicked by a second hand car salesman masquerading as UKIP leader. Cameron then thought he could horse trade a referendum away in another coalition deal with Clegg.

When Cameron got a majority, the last thing he wanted, he then went to Brussels and made a total arse of himself with his sham of a negotiation for more powers.

Then we had the campaign. leave really didn't want to win, had no clue what to do when they did win, and then Cameron abandoned ship and went on his merry way.

This has been a shameful hour for Britain's political class from start to finish.

They are useless, be they leave, be they remain.

It's them that's the swivel eyed loons, not the British people.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Regardless if you are Remain or Leave, I think that we can all agree that we have been badly let down by our MPs and leaders.

 r_squared wrote:
One of the problems with any political discourse about Brexit at the moment are the constant use of Leaver and Remainer. These are stereotypes used to vilify, and no longer really serve an actual purpose.
We're all Brits, and we've got a fething great big job to sort out, and constantly banging on about leavtards and remoaners just makes people think you're a daily mail/ huffpost reading dill weed.

I endorse this wholeheartedly.

Perhaps you should run for your seat next election?

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/823952815584346114

British Prime Minister Theresa May has declined an invitation from Enda Kenny to address the Dáil while on an official visit to Ireland

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-may-declines-invitation-to-make-historic-address-to-irish-parliament-a3448856.html

Mrs May would have been the first Tory leader and only the second British prime minister to speak before Dublin's parliament - following on from Tony Blair's ground-breaking address in 1998.

....
Last November, Scotland First Minister Nicola Sturgeon got a standing ovation when she addressed the upper house of parliament, the Seanad.

..hmmm..

 reds8n wrote:
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/823952815584346114

British Prime Minister Theresa May has declined an invitation from Enda Kenny to address the Dáil while on an official visit to Ireland

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-may-declines-invitation-to-make-historic-address-to-irish-parliament-a3448856.html

Mrs May would have been the first Tory leader and only the second British prime minister to speak before Dublin's parliament - following on from Tony Blair's ground-breaking address in 1998.

....
Last November, Scotland First Minister Nicola Sturgeon got a standing ovation when she addressed the upper house of parliament, the Seanad.

..hmmm..

Honestly I think it's for the best.

She's not in a position to make the kind of address that que occasion needed. Brexit would take precedence.

It could be taken as a chance to reassure the Irish that things will not be as bad as people are saying.