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I backed Brexit, voted for it, and still think it's a good idea, but I made the mistake of overestimating the ability of the Tory party to at least be mildly competent.

Need to laugh. The Brexit has been the worst option.

Sure, they can and should have a second referendum to reflect the new political environment (Brexit)...once Brexit is complete. Holding a 2nd referendum before the Brexit negotiations are concluded is taking the piss, we don't know what the conditions and terms of Britain's withdrawal will be.

How can the Government possibly set out its case to the Scottish electorate to remain in the UK?

"Trust us guys, we promise we'll achieve X,Y and Z concessions from Europe."

"We HAVE achieved X, Y and Z concessions from Europe.


Scotland should wait and see, then hold the 2nd referendum one year after Brexit is complete (2020).

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Sure, they can and should have a second referendum to reflect the new political environment (Brexit)...once Brexit is complete. Holding a 2nd referendum before the Brexit negotiations are concluded is taking the piss, we don't know what the conditions and terms of Britain's withdrawal will be.

That's a matter of perspective. The SNP are definitely (and Scotland populace generally) are pro-EU. Having the vote before hand gives Scotland the chance not to leave the EU as the UK diverges itself of rational thought and wanders into some bizarro twilight land where everything will come up roses (though not realising they will be funeral roses) and the incumbent political parties either won't accept any negative things being said about Brexit or are a complete shambles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 reds8n wrote:
watch this clip

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/840981294674771968

The screen is visible by guests/those in the studio.


Now go here :

https://twitter.com/LiamFoxMP/status/705674061016387584?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw


how the feth is that acceptable.

And he's one of the architects of our new future.

This was Sky News. You can almost imagine Murdoch screaming in her ear piece "You will NOT ask him to look to his left"

In reality there does need to be some sort of reprimand for this sort of behaviour. We have now got to the point where our politicians can brazenly lie to the populace and still get away with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 reds8n wrote:




UK government says no need for another Scottish independence referendum and it would be "divisive and cause huge economic uncertainty".




...hmm ..

Typical tories really. We will give you a vote and once we have what we want we'll just call it the "will of the people" and not listen to any argument. When it comes to something we don't want then we'll just read the Daily Fail polls and decide what to do and conveniently forget about anything to do with the "will of the people"

I'm rooting for Scotland - time to make your own future and not be hamstrung by Westminster that doesn't care except about anything but there own pockets.

 Yodhrin wrote:

Nevermind strengthened powers....

You are right but independence at the moment is on a knife edge. Its entirely possible that the balance will tip towards Yes for the reasons that you have mentioned. However further real devolution, such as agriculture and fisheries policy, and a willingness from Westminster to meet Scotland somewhere in the middle would remove a lot of the support from potential and/or havering Yes voters which would push things quite firmly to the No side.

 Whirlwind wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Sure, they can and should have a second referendum to reflect the new political environment (Brexit)...once Brexit is complete. Holding a 2nd referendum before the Brexit negotiations are concluded is taking the piss, we don't know what the conditions and terms of Britain's withdrawal will be.

That's a matter of perspective. The SNP are definitely (and Scotland populace generally) are pro-EU. Having the vote before hand gives Scotland the chance not to leave the EU as the UK diverges itself of rational thought and wanders into some bizarro twilight land where everything will come up roses (though not realising they will be funeral roses) and the incumbent political parties either won't accept any negative things being said about Brexit or are a complete shambles.

With my new job I'm struggling to keep abreast and be on this forum, none the less I soon heard about IndyRef2 on the radio. Sturgeon is pulling a 'now or never' gambit. The SNP would never accept another defeat, if they did it would be IndyRef 3 The Revenge of the SNP etc. I think it is irresponsible to throw the Scottish people in to a decision when many still want to be part of the UK. I wager most people would like to see the final result of the Brexit Deal or No deal before voting on independence again. I am not against the Scots wanting to be free, but they can't draw out expenses and claims form the UK once we leave officially. For every doom and gloom forecast about the disadvantage of Brexit, we could still have a good deal at the end of the 2 years. The British economy will still be doing well and hopefully we will see improvement, I think it would have been better for the SNP to wait until it is crystal clear before committing. The big question is what process is involved in devoluting total power to the Scots? Will Scotland see a British type Article 50 imposed or will they be out by the end of the month? If Westminster wanted to screw the SNP they could make the Scots wait until after the UK left the EU so that they would have to reapply and get a worse EU deal. (I am not implying this would ever happen).

I expect to see many exaggerated comments on the guaranteed benefits the SNP can deliver in a independent EU certified utopia, but just like the run up to Brexit each side will try and down play the other with statements that aren't really true. A whole can of worms could be opened with the Scots leaving, I would imagine the notion of continued membership to be invalid as they would have to reapply as a new smaller state with monetary commitments altered to the size of the Scots economy. The EU would never let another Greece or Ireland rate mistake happen again. I think it is more likely than not that Scotland would have to take the Euro, a factor rammed in by the EU and perhaps that the UK wouldn't want Sterling outside of its control. I imagine a post independence Scotland would see a tightening economy and budget cuts as the Westminster drip-feed dries up, until the EU funding takes place. All will be revealed in time, I just hope that if the Scots do get independence it happens at the right time for them, not too early or too late.

Well feth me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39249721

Brexit bill: MPs reject first of Lords changes

....They rejected calls for the government to protect the status of EU nationals within three months of the start of Brexit talks by 335 votes to 287.
MPs will now decide whether Parliament should have a meaningful Brexit vote.
The EU Withdrawal Bill could complete its final stages if both Houses of Parliament agree the text of the bill.
Prime Minister Theresa May could then theoretically trigger Article 50, which formally starts the Brexit process, as early as Tuesday.
But the BBC's chief political correspondent Vicki Young said she had been told it would not happen this week and the prime minister was expected to wait until the end of the month to officially notify the EU of the UK's intention to leave....

What harm would be done to our 'reclaimed sovereign rights' TM by protecting EU nationals status? AND only 3 months down the line from A50 triggering?

Can the Lords double down and now ask for EU status protection to be implemented at the same time as Article 50 is triggered?

I would ask that any Scottish independence referendum is saved until after Brexit, just so everyone is clear on what they're voting for. We should be looking at more devolution too. It's only fair. I would hope that eventually, fishing and agriculture, policing, education etc all become devolved, with Westminster simply setting guidelines and handling defense, foreign affairs etc.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I would ask that any Scottish independence referendum is saved until after Brexit, just so everyone is clear on what they're voting for. We should be looking at more devolution too. It's only fair. I would hope that eventually, fishing and agriculture, policing, education etc all become devolved, with Westminster simply setting guidelines and handling defense, foreign affairs etc.

With the pro indy support in the Scottish parliament the SNP are probably certain to get their preferred dates of 2018/19.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
With the pro indy support in the Scottish parliament the SNP are probably certain to get their preferred dates of 2018/19

Who does the final decision fall to?

That's a matter of perspective. The SNP are definitely (and Scotland populace generally) are pro-EU. Having the vote before hand gives Scotland the chance not to leave the EU as the UK diverges itself of rational thought and wanders into some bizarro twilight land where everything will come up roses (though not realising they will be funeral roses) and the incumbent political parties either won't accept any negative things being said about Brexit or are a complete shambles.

No, its not.

That is a deluded fantasy. If Scotland splits from the UK, it will be a new entity and will have to apply to rejoin the EU as a new member. Its doesn't get to inherit the UK's membership.

Like it or not, Scotland WILL leave the EU, whether its as a part of the UK in Brexit, or by splittng from the UK and going independent, which will automatically eject them from the EU.

httpshttps://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/10/independent-scotland-would-have-to-apply-for-eu-membership

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Nevermind strengthened powers....

You are right but independence at the moment is on a knife edge. Its entirely possible that the balance will tip towards Yes for the reasons that you have mentioned. However further real devolution, such as agriculture and fisheries policy, and a willingness from Westminster to meet Scotland somewhere in the middle would remove a lot of the support from potential and/or havering Yes voters which would push things quite firmly to the No side.

Oh I agree, which is why May's hardline approach has been so baffling - the Scotland's Future paper laid out three scenarios: UK stays in Single Market, failing that differentiated deal for Scotland to stay in, failing that significant further devolution to help us protect our economy, and the response to all three was pretty much "feth off Jockos". I think May & the WM bubble had just genuinely convinced themselves that Sturgeon was only bluffing about calling indyref2 and so they could "deal with the Scottish problem" quickly & easily by dismissing the whole thing out of hand.

One quick note though - agriculture and fisheries is what I was talking about, those areas are *already* devolved, but the UK government are planning to take them back post-Brexit and re-devolve whatever small portions they see fit. Considering we're talking about people who thought devolving control over road signage was a big deal, I doubt that will be anything meaningful.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Sure, they can and should have a second referendum to reflect the new political environment (Brexit)...once Brexit is complete. Holding a 2nd referendum before the Brexit negotiations are concluded is taking the piss, we don't know what the conditions and terms of Britain's withdrawal will be.

How can the Government possibly set out its case to the Scottish electorate to remain in the UK?

"Trust us guys, we promise we'll achieve X,Y and Z concessions from Europe."

"We HAVE achieved X, Y and Z concessions from Europe.


Scotland should wait and see, then hold the 2nd referendum one year after Brexit is complete (2020).

Nah, we'll have it when it suits us thanks, and that's after the Brexit deal has become clear and soon enough that a transition arrangement with the EU while we go through the formality of applying is still possible, ie probably early 2019.

 Sentinel1 wrote:

 Whirlwind wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Sure, they can and should have a second referendum to reflect the new political environment (Brexit)...once Brexit is complete. Holding a 2nd referendum before the Brexit negotiations are concluded is taking the piss, we don't know what the conditions and terms of Britain's withdrawal will be.

That's a matter of perspective. The SNP are definitely (and Scotland populace generally) are pro-EU. Having the vote before hand gives Scotland the chance not to leave the EU as the UK diverges itself of rational thought and wanders into some bizarro twilight land where everything will come up roses (though not realising they will be funeral roses) and the incumbent political parties either won't accept any negative things being said about Brexit or are a complete shambles.

With my new job I'm struggling to keep abreast and be on this forum, none the less I soon heard about IndyRef2 on the radio. Sturgeon is pulling a 'now or never' gambit. The SNP would never accept another defeat, if they did it would be IndyRef 3 The Revenge of the SNP etc. I think it is irresponsible to throw the Scottish people in to a decision when many still want to be part of the UK. I wager most people would like to see the final result of the Brexit Deal or No deal before voting on independence again. I am not against the Scots wanting to be free, but they can't draw out expenses and claims form the UK once we leave officially. For every doom and gloom forecast about the disadvantage of Brexit, we could still have a good deal at the end of the 2 years. The British economy will still be doing well and hopefully we will see improvement, I think it would have been better for the SNP to wait until it is crystal clear before committing. The big question is what process is involved in devoluting total power to the Scots? Will Scotland see a British type Article 50 imposed or will they be out by the end of the month? If Westminster wanted to screw the SNP they could make the Scots wait until after the UK left the EU so that they would have to reapply and get a worse EU deal. (I am not implying this would ever happen).

I expect to see many exaggerated comments on the guaranteed benefits the SNP can deliver in a independent EU certified utopia, but just like the run up to Brexit each side will try and down play the other with statements that aren't really true. A whole can of worms could be opened with the Scots leaving, I would imagine the notion of continued membership to be invalid as they would have to reapply as a new smaller state with monetary commitments altered to the size of the Scots economy. The EU would never let another Greece or Ireland rate mistake happen again. I think it is more likely than not that Scotland would have to take the Euro, a factor rammed in by the EU and perhaps that the UK wouldn't want Sterling outside of its control. I imagine a post independence Scotland would see a tightening economy and budget cuts as the Westminster drip-feed dries up, until the EU funding takes place. All will be revealed in time, I just hope that if the Scots do get independence it happens at the right time for them, not too early or too late.

You think it's irresponsible for a political party to carry out their manifesto committments? I can certainly understand how someone used to Westminster politics might find that idea shocking, but it's how politics is *supposed* to work yeah

Seriously though, what is it exactly that people think is going to be mysterious and unknown about the Brexit deal by early 2019? No, a Scottish voter will probably not be able to look up "Section 179, Subsection 212, Paragraph 92 - Provisions For The Orderly Transition of Weights and Measures" of the final Brexit documents, but it will be plainly obvious whether we're getting a broadly favourable deal, a broadly unfavourable deal, or a batgak-mental WTO Tory UKIP suicide pact and I'd say that's sufficient information to decide whether the UK will have a future said voter would want to be part of.

As for our economy, I expect we'll do fine given that "the Westminster drip-feed" consists of our own tax money partially returned to us and money borrowed ostensibly on our behalf and spent on UK government priorities outwith Scotland.

And lastly, can we please stop with this "you'll have to take the Euro" thing? I mean it's not even something that's up for debate, even if you ignore the multiple EU countries with no explicit currency opt-out who nonetheless continue to use a currency other than the Euro, it's right there in the treaties - to join the Eurozone you first need to have your own sovereign currency, then you have to enter that currency into ERM2 of your own volition, to which it must remain pegged for at least two years and as many as are required to meet the fiscal requirements. Even assuming a newly independent Scotland wanted to adopt the Euro, it would be five to ten years at least before that happened, and nobody's going to force us.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I would ask that any Scottish independence referendum is saved until after Brexit, just so everyone is clear on what they're voting for. We should be looking at more devolution too. It's only fair. I would hope that eventually, fishing and agriculture, policing, education etc all become devolved, with Westminster simply setting guidelines and handling defense, foreign affairs etc.

You'll forgive me for not taking constitutional advice from someone who evidently doesn't realise that all of those things you just mentioned are already devolved.

@ Yodhrin

OK you got me there. I should have said taxing and spending powers. Variable income tax rates etc. etc.

I really don't like your tone though. Why do so many people on this site talk to others with different opinions like they're a piece of gak?

Personally I am absolutely fine with Scottish independence, it seems perfectly reasonable to me considering the curent climate. Besides, everyone knew explicitly that this would likely happen, so I'm not sure I understand the objections myself.

I'd also ask those English and Welsh members on here who object to this, to ask themselves exactly why they object. What impact is potential Scottish independence going to have on you, personally.
I'd also like to point out that I am not asking you to post your answer, it's just a question you might like to ask yourself before arguing against it.

 r_squared wrote:
Personally I am absolutely fine with Scottish independence, it seems perfectly reasonable to me considering the curent climate. Besides, everyone knew explicitly that this would likely happen, so I'm not sure I understand the objections myself.

I'd also ask those English and Welsh members on here who object to this, to ask themselves exactly why they object. What impact is potential Scottish independence going to have on you, personally.
I'd also like to point out that I am not asking you to post your answer, it's just a question you might like to ask yourself before arguing against it.

I don't object to them having a second referendum, I'm objecting to them sabotaging Brexit by trying to hold it before Brexit is concluded.

May and her minions seem to be doing a pretty good job of sabotaging Brexit already. I'm 100% behind Scotland if the Scots decide they would prefer to maximise their ties to the rest of Europe at the expense of some of their ties to England and Wales.

Pretty tempted to move North if it happens too...

 Yodhrin wrote:

One quick note though - agriculture and fisheries is what I was talking about, those areas are *already* devolved, but the UK government are planning to take them back post-Brexit and re-devolve whatever small portions they see fit.

To clarify I meant the areas that are currently controlled by the EU, such as subsidies.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

I don't object to them having a second referendum, I'm objecting to them sabotaging Brexit by trying to hold it before Brexit is concluded.

Well, no, it makes sense because then Scotland can stay in, as opposed to having to leave, and then having to get back in.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

I don't object to them having a second referendum, I'm objecting to them sabotaging Brexit by trying to hold it before Brexit is concluded.

Well, no, it makes sense because then Scotland can stay in, as opposed to having to leave, and then having to get back in.

It's not going to work like that.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

I don't object to them having a second referendum, I'm objecting to them sabotaging Brexit by trying to hold it before Brexit is concluded.

Well, no, it makes sense because then Scotland can stay in, as opposed to having to leave, and then having to get back in.

Not gonna happen. Its a deluded fantasy. Like it or not, Scotland WILL leave the EU whether as a part of the UK with Brexit, or by splitting from the UK which will eject it from the EU. It is going to have to apply to join the EU as a new member, it won't get to just inherit the rUK's membership.



https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/10/independent-scotland-would-have-to-apply-for-eu-membership

 r_squared wrote:
Personally I am absolutely fine with Scottish independence, it seems perfectly reasonable to me considering the curent climate. Besides, everyone knew explicitly that this would likely happen, so I'm not sure I understand the objections myself.

I'd also ask those English and Welsh members on here who object to this, to ask themselves exactly why they object. What impact is potential Scottish independence going to have on you, personally.
I'd also like to point out that I am not asking you to post your answer, it's just a question you might like to ask yourself before arguing against it.

Scotland can have its independence, but the SNP can't burn the wick at both ends. If there is a continuation of EU membership as partly planned by a premature second vote, it would at the very least have to be renegotiated to suit Scotland's interest against the EU's. As much as the EU will any day take in Scotland, I extremely doubt it would want to continue the previous benefits granted to the UK, in particular now dealing with a smaller economic state. There could still be opposition from other member states to veto the continuation against a new re-entry deal that would put Scotland on a level playing field with the rest. If I was Scottish I would still have preferred waiting until Brexit was a done deal so I knew exactly what to weigh it against, not the current 'well obviously this will happen because it is inevitable - and it will be bad', attitude.

As for how it would affect me, firstly it would be a historic period to remember. Secondly it could affect pound sterling depending on if Scotland keeps monetary union with the UK, goes alone with its own Scottish Pound or alternative, or goes Euro inclusive. Thirdly a lot less SNP and Surgeon yapping, the SNP can only blame themselves and no longer Westminister when things like Scotland's NHS and economy are solely their own investment or lack of.

 Sentinel1 wrote:
Thirdly a lot less SNP and Surgeon yapping

Is it any wonder that the SNP want another referendum...

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 r_squared wrote:
Personally I am absolutely fine with Scottish independence, it seems perfectly reasonable to me considering the curent climate. Besides, everyone knew explicitly that this would likely happen, so I'm not sure I understand the objections myself.

I'd also ask those English and Welsh members on here who object to this, to ask themselves exactly why they object. What impact is potential Scottish independence going to have on you, personally.
I'd also like to point out that I am not asking you to post your answer, it's just a question you might like to ask yourself before arguing against it.

I don't object to them having a second referendum, I'm objecting to them sabotaging Brexit by trying to hold it before Brexit is concluded.

In what way do you think this will sabotage Brexit?

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


Not gonna happen. Its a deluded fantasy. Like it or not, Scotland WILL leave the EU whether as a part of the UK with Brexit, or by splitting from the UK which will eject it from the EU. It is going to have to apply to join the EU as a new member, it won't get to just inherit the rUK's membership.



https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/10/independent-scotland-would-have-to-apply-for-eu-membership

That article mentions Sturgeon hoping for an unbroken transition. I could see that working, with careful negotiation. You just time it so that Scotland formally leaves the UK at (say) midnight on 1st March 2019, and formally joins the EU as an independent country at midnight on 1st March 2019. As long as all the negotiation has been done up to that point, and as long as all parties involved want to set things up that way, it could happen.

The bigger question really is whether other bits of the former UK might want to apply to join Scotland, if it meant getting out of the sinking Independent Disunited Kingdom ship.

 r_squared wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 r_squared wrote:
Personally I am absolutely fine with Scottish independence, it seems perfectly reasonable to me considering the curent climate. Besides, everyone knew explicitly that this would likely happen, so I'm not sure I understand the objections myself.

I'd also ask those English and Welsh members on here who object to this, to ask themselves exactly why they object. What impact is potential Scottish independence going to have on you, personally.
I'd also like to point out that I am not asking you to post your answer, it's just a question you might like to ask yourself before arguing against it.

I don't object to them having a second referendum, I'm objecting to them sabotaging Brexit by trying to hold it before Brexit is concluded.

In what way do you think this will sabotage Brexit?

The fact that we'd be cutting the UK in half, thereby shrinking its economy, territory and international prestige and clout at a time when we're conducting difficult and extremely cut throat negotiations over the UK's withdrawal from the EU?

Without Scotland, the UK is diminished and vice versa. How can it not impact upon Brexit negotiations?

 Sentinel1 wrote:
...As for how it would affect me, firstly it would be a historic period to remember. Secondly it could affect pound sterling depending on if Scotland keeps monetary union with the UK, goes alone with its own Scottish Pound or alternative, or goes Euro inclusive.

Doesn't seem like much really when we consider the damage that's already been done.

 Sentinel1 wrote:
Thirdly a lot less SNP and Surgeon yapping, the SNP can only blame themselves and no longer Westminister when things like Scotland's NHS and economy are solely their own investment or lack of.

You don't have to listen to them, so it's not really much of an objection really.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 r_squared wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 r_squared wrote:
Personally I am absolutely fine with Scottish independence, it seems perfectly reasonable to me considering the curent climate. Besides, everyone knew explicitly that this would likely happen, so I'm not sure I understand the objections myself.

I'd also ask those English and Welsh members on here who object to this, to ask themselves exactly why they object. What impact is potential Scottish independence going to have on you, personally.
I'd also like to point out that I am not asking you to post your answer, it's just a question you might like to ask yourself before arguing against it.

I don't object to them having a second referendum, I'm objecting to them sabotaging Brexit by trying to hold it before Brexit is concluded.

In what way do you think this will sabotage Brexit?

The fact that we'd be cutting the UK in half, thereby shrinking its economy, territory and international prestige and clout at a time when we're conducting difficult and extremely cut throat negotiations over the UK's withdrawal from the EU?

Without Scotland, the UK is diminished and vice versa. How can it not impact upon Brexit negotiations?

To be fair, it seems like this should have been something thought out by the UK government with some anticipation that it could happeb and contingency plans put in place before going ahead with the Brexit referrendum and then going whole-hog-full-steam-ahead on it like it was a mandate from heaven after an extremely narrow and heavily regional result. If I were a scot, I'd have voted to remain in 2014, but I'd also feel more than a wee bit hoodwinked by the entire post indyref Brexit.

If the rest of the UK want out of the EU while Scotland wants to remain in, having to wait until after the break with the EU to get out of the UK to get back into the EU would seem to be a poor performance on the part of Scotland's leaders if that is their goal, and not Scotland's responsibility to ensure that Brexit goes smoothly for the remainder of the UK while they get the short end of the stick.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 r_squared wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 r_squared wrote:
Personally I am absolutely fine with Scottish independence, it seems perfectly reasonable to me considering the curent climate. Besides, everyone knew explicitly that this would likely happen, so I'm not sure I understand the objections myself.

I'd also ask those English and Welsh members on here who object to this, to ask themselves exactly why they object. What impact is potential Scottish independence going to have on you, personally.
I'd also like to point out that I am not asking you to post your answer, it's just a question you might like to ask yourself before arguing against it.

I don't object to them having a second referendum, I'm objecting to them sabotaging Brexit by trying to hold it before Brexit is concluded.

In what way do you think this will sabotage Brexit?

The fact that we'd be cutting the UK in half, thereby shrinking its economy, territory and international prestige and clout at a time when we're conducting difficult and extremely cut throat negotiations over the UK's withdrawal from the EU?

Without Scotland, the UK is diminished and vice versa. How can it not impact upon Brexit negotiations?

Scotland is not half the UK, negotiations maybe stretched, but again, this is something we knew may happen, and we should have prepared for it.

I would also ask you what you would say if the words you speak came from a German poster talking about Brexit.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4308576/Tory-rebels-concede-defeat-EU-Bill.html

Looks like Gov has won right to launch Brexit
Queen just has to sign on the dotted line and we can press the button.

I agree with the earlier points: Sturgeon really has put the cat amongst the pigeons.

In 2014, the EU tip toed around the idea of Scotland in the EU, downplaying it as best they could, mindful of the fact that the UK was still a player in the EU.

But Brexit changed that. Now, the EU can take the gloves off and really make things hard for the Brexit talks.

For all the EU rules and treaties, if the EU decided to offer Scotland a special deal or fast track Scotland into the EU, then it will happen. Politics is not set in stone.

In many respects May and Westminster really only have themselves to blame for this. The former for being incompetent, the latter for being as stubborn as a mule.

After the 2014 referendum, promises made to Scotland went out the window, Westminster back tracking at a rate of knots.

Scotland has often been called a drain on England, and yet, the SNP's amendment in the HoC for Full Fiscal autonomy was shot down in flames...

May gave strong hints that fishing and farming powers would be clawed back from Edinburgh.

When the SNP asked for VAT revenue, London said it's against EU rules to have different VAT rates within a member state.. Now we're leaving the EU, London still says no...and so it goes on and on...

Westminster has no interest in change, federalism, further devolution or anything really to save the union, and I for one am not hanging around to see the glacial rate of change that passes for progress i this nation...

They really won't budge an inch, and history repeats itself. London would not budge an inch on the American colonies, or Irish Home rule, and ultimately, they end up losing the lot...

Yup it's creeping closer.
[url]
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39262081[/url]

...The House of Lords has passed the Brexit bill, paving the way for the government to trigger Article 50 so the UK can leave the EU.
Peers backed down over the issues of EU residency rights and a meaningful vote on the final Brexit deal after their objections were overturned by MPs.
The bill is expected to receive Royal Assent and become law on Tuesday.....