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I will soon be taking part in a 1500 pt team tourney (3 players per team, directions in place for assigning match ups) using ITC ITS list building rules, FAQ, and similarly structured missions. My teammates are Eldar and likely a WolfStar player.

List building at 1500 pts has long given me fits for a number of reasons, so I am turning to you experienced Dakkanauts for advice! I have several flavors of Daemons to choose.

List 1 (Classic Double Star Daemons):

Fateweaver
Tzerald: ML3, Disc, Grimoire
Tzerald: ML3, Disc, Paradox
N'erald: ML2, Greater, FNP Locus
N'erald: ML2, Greater, Doomsday Bell

3 Nurglings
11 Horrors

7 Screamers
6 Plague Drones: Rot Proboscis, Plaguebringer w/ Lesser

List 2 (HoundStar with Screamers)

- Cabal
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe

- KDK Allied
Herald

8 Cultist

12 Hounds

- Daemons CAD
Fateweaver
Tzerald: ML3, Disc, Grimoire

3 Nurglings
11 Horrors

6 Screamers

List 3 (HoundStar, No Grimoire, No Fateweaver)

- Cabal
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe, MoS

- KDK Allied
Herald

8 Cultist

17 Hounds

Daemons CAD:
LoC: ML3, Impossible Robe, 2x Greater, Lesser
Tzerald: ML3, Paradox

11 Horrors
11 Horrors

List 4 (Murderhorde)

- Daemonic Incursion
Kherald: Juggernaut, Locus of Wrath, Axe of Khorne

11 Hounds
7x 5 Hounds

LoC: ML3, Impossible Robe, 2x Greater, Lesser

5 Furies

- Daemons CAD
Tzerald: ML3, Paradox

11 Horrors
11 Horrors

So there they are. Which one do you think will do best in a competitive environment? I have a couple more variations of the HoundStar in my head but I don't think they best repeating just now.

Thanks for reading and feedback!

I would go for nr 4 but with a small adjustment:

List 4 (Murderhorde)

- Daemonic Incursion
Kherald: Juggernaut, Locus of Wrath, Axe of Khorne

11 Hounds
7x 5 Hounds

B'lakor

5 Furies

- Daemons CAD
Tzerald: ML3, Paradox + exalted reward (grimoire)

11 Horrors
11 Horrors

It gives you the option to use the grimoire and/or invisibility at any time. You need to tarpit the superheavies with hounds and finish them off after you took care of the other stuff. You can always drop down B'lakor and join the combat, sticking his blade into the imperial knights back (S7 + 2xD6 AP). If your Tzeentch herald got "sacrifice" then you can summon a nurgle herald with the doomsday bell and give every enemy unit -1 LD. this goes really well with B'lakors Telepathy powers.

Not a bad idea but that does add 50 pts to the list. I'd either have to drop 3 hounds (making the most attractive target for Invis and Grimoire less attractive) or swap a unit of Horrors for Nurglings (less protection for herald, lose 2 WC). Also cant have paradox and Grimoire. I might consider Belakor, but I'm not at all a fan of the Grimoire without Fateweaver. Even though it's not as much of a force multiplier, the LoC is more self sufficient given the ease of reaching a 2++ rerollable which I think I prefer


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, I lied. Here's one more HoundStar for consideration:

- Cabal
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe, MoS

- KDK Allied
Herald: Juggernaut, Locus of Wrath

8 Cultist

18 Hounds

- Daemons CAD

Tzerald: ML3, Paradox

11 Horrors
11 Horrors
3 Nurglings
3 Nurglings

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Not a bad idea but that does add 50 pts to the list. I'd either have to drop 3 hounds (making the most attractive target for Invis and Grimoire less attractive) or swap a unit of Horrors for Nurglings (less protection for herald, lose 2 WC). Also cant have paradox and Grimoire. I might consider Belakor, but I'm not at all a fan of the Grimoire without Fateweaver. Even though it's not as much of a force multiplier, the LoC is more self sufficient given the ease of reaching a 2++ rerollable which I think I prefer

True, but I fear that the space marine/wolf deathstars and superheavies will take you down. Hounds are great for taking down the small stuff and tarpitting the big stuff but in the end you need sum thing to back them up. That sum thing needs to be able to take down imperial knights and i dont know if the LOC is enough.

hmmm, maybe it is better to have a single hound unit and back that up with a little punch.

Also really depends on the missions.

Yeah I'm not too terribly worried about Wolfstars as I probably won't be the one to face them (that is unless a team packs multiples *shudders*). Scratch that. I actually AM worried about Wolfstars, but Daemons don't really have any good counters as far as I'm aware. Even if I have Invis, a Wolfstar packing 20+ S8- 10 attacks is going to put a serious dent in whatever is in its way. . . And then hit and run and do it again. I'm just really hoping I dont have to tango with one. Super Heavies are a pain, but the real threat there is Stomp, which neither Invis nor the Grimoire will mitigate.

Missions are something along the lines of end game objective scoring as primary, maelstrom cards as secondary, and tertiaries like first blood, slay the warlord, line breaker and a couple others. That's about as specific as I can know as we won't get the mission packet until day of.

 astro_nomicon wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, I lied. Here's one more HoundStar for consideration:

- Cabal
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe, MoS

- KDK Allied
Herald: Juggernaut, Locus of Wrath

8 Cultist

18 Hounds

- Daemons CAD

Tzerald: ML3, Paradox

11 Horrors
11 Horrors
3 Nurglings
3 Nurglings

This could also be interesting. I would drop the nurglings and get a Lvl 1. tzeentch herald + grimoire + an upgrade weapon for your khorne herald. You can always give the lvl 1. tzeentch herald: prescience to boost your hound/sorcerer unit. I don't understand why you wouldn't take the grimoire without fateweaver. worst case scenario your tzeentch herald gets -1inv.

Paradox + sorcerers with familairs gives you a lot of summoning options. I always like blocking imperial knights with seekers. summoning + run with an extra 6 inch, long bases and their to close to put a large blast on them without the imperial knight hitting itself.

If you got a good amount of deamon units for 'conjuration' then I think this could be the most flexible list for 1500 points.

I do have plenty of stuff to summon.

A failed Grimoire till doesn't give - 1 invuln to the bearer it gives - 1 invuln to the targeted unit which could (will, actually) be potentially crippling if youre talking about a unit that comprises about two thirds of my list.

 astro_nomicon wrote:
I do have plenty of stuff to summon.

A failed Grimoire till doesn't give - 1 invuln to the bearer it gives - 1 invuln to the targeted unit which could (will, actually) be potentially crippling if youre talking about a unit that comprises about two thirds of my list.

A, damn forget that.

I would still drop those nurglings and get a Lvl. 3 tzeentch herald. Thats another 3 warp charge and a better chance at getting cursed earth or 4+ inv save (divination) If you want objective grabbing units, you can summon them.

At 1500 points you need a flexible daemon army because you cannot deal with every issue/enemy army list.

- The double star daemon list (1.) is still a solid choice but I fear the enemies first turn shooting.
- Fateweaver is a great model, but needs a lot of warp dice if you want to use him offensive. He also works best in a Daemonic Incursion.
- LOC cost a lot of points in a 1500 game, And I think it will be ignored and/or tar pitted. Your better of (cheaper) trying to summon a Bloodthirster at the right time.
- A full Murderhorde of hounds gives you great control over the bord until you meet your match (wolfstar/superheavies). That will be a draw or a loss for you.

This list:

- Cabal
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe, MoS

- KDK Allied
Herald: Juggernaut, Locus of Wrath

8 Cultist

18 Hounds

- Daemons CAD

Tzerald: ML3, Paradox
Tzerald: ML3 (warlord)
11 Horrors
11 Horrors

Got a lot of psychic power potential. I would make the Herald without paradox Warlord and roll on the tzeentch warlord traits.
This packs 22 +D6 warp dice. With this you could summon 4 units or 3 units + a defensive power like invisiblity or cursed earth.

Even when you're fighting with a death/wolfstar you got the possibility to be invisible and still summon a lot of units around you.

I think this is the way to go..

Question: does one sorcerer got a Mark of slaanesh (Mos) or is it sum thing else?

You could also consider combi-melta's and/or melta bombs for your sorcerers. It gives you a little punch against imperial knights.

Thanks for the input, I'll consider the second Herald.

You might be overestimating the summoning potential a little bit here. The HoundStar needs a lot of psychic buffing to reach its potential and thus live up to its points investment. Even with familiars that eats up a lot of dice. I'd expect two summons a turn max.

Melta bombs are a good call, I'll try to squeeze the points.

MoS is indeed Mark of Slaanesh. I think I might drop it though since I'm not overly familiar with that table and I imagine I'll already be using all of my mastery levels fishing for Invis, Endurance, Sanctuary, and Hammerhand.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also if I go that route, I'll definitely make one of the Sorcerors the warlord. Don't want to deal with warp storm without mitigation.

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Thanks for the input, I'll consider the second Herald.

You might be overestimating the summoning potential a little bit here. The HoundStar needs a lot of psychic buffing to reach its potential and thus live up to its points investment. Even with familiars that eats up a lot of dice. I'd expect two summons a turn max.

Melta bombs are a good call, I'll try to squeeze the points.

MoS is indeed Mark of Slaanesh. I think I might drop it though since I'm not overly familiar with that table and I imagine I'll already be using all of my mastery levels fishing for Invis, Endurance, Sanctuary, and Hammerhand.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also if I go that route, I'll definitely make one of the Sorcerors the warlord. Don't want to deal with warp storm without mitigation.

I was under the assumption that you cannot roll for 'Sanctic' with chaos, and that the sorcerers dont got acces to biomancy.

The GW new FAQ only allowes 1 grenade/bomb to be used so you could only use all bombs if you detach/seperate the sorcerers into single units.

I don't think the FAQ will be used for this event. Daemons cant roll on Sanctic but the Sorcerors can and they do indeed have access to Biomancy.

You could just as well go all the way with your sorcerers:

- Cabal
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe (Warlord)
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe
Sorceror: ML3, VoLW, Bike, Spell Familiar, Axe

- KDK Allied
Herald: Juggernaut, Locus of Wrath

8 Cultist

18 Hounds

- Daemons Allied Detachment

Tzerald: ML3, Paradox
11 Horrors

An extra sorcerer does mean one less unit of horrors (-2 warp dice) but also gives you more psychic power options for the sorcerer/hound unit, a reroll with the spell familiar and an extra free warp dice with shroud of deceit.

If Im counting right, you still got about 70 points left. With this you could get 2+ hounds, meltabombs and a nice weapon for your khorne herald. That khorne herald could use a ap2 axe against the wolfstar or riptides.

You could also get the masque of slaanesh for these amount of points. She's very situational but could make the difference against other death(wolf)stars.