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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/14 00:06:26
Subject: Mark of Tzeentch & Sanctuary
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Regular Dakkanaut
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If I take the sigil of chaos 4++, mark of tzeentch (+1 invuln up to 3+) then somehow manage to get off the santic power santuary would I receive a 2++ or would it be max 3++ ?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/14 02:28:01
Subject: Mark of Tzeentch & Sanctuary
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Auspicious Daemonic Herald
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MoT capping invul to 3++ is still there. It didn't go away
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/14 02:28:58
Subject: Mark of Tzeentch & Sanctuary
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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It is not something that is agreed upon.
We have no rules telling us what order in which we apply modifiers of the same mathematical direction(pluses, minuses, multiples, divsors); just the order in wich we apply each group.
Technically we can use the Sequencing rules, in which case most of the time it would matter the player whose turn it is will sequence the MoT(or any other capped bonus) last(negating any benefit. But if it is your turn and a blast falls on your own model or a shot is redirected at him then you can sequence the MoT first.
Generally speaking it is besr to assume it doesn't work.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/14 02:29:51
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/14 02:54:19
Subject: Mark of Tzeentch & Sanctuary
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Auspicious Daemonic Herald
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Kommissar Kel wrote:It is not something that is agreed upon.
We have no rules telling us what order in which we apply modifiers of the same mathematical direction(pluses, minuses, multiples, divsors); just the order in wich we apply each group.
Technically we can use the Sequencing rules, in which case most of the time it would matter the player whose turn it is will sequence the MoT(or any other capped bonus) last(negating any benefit. But if it is your turn and a blast falls on your own model or a shot is redirected at him then you can sequence the MoT first.
Generally speaking it is besr to assume it doesn't work.
Why would sequencing matter? MoT 3++ cap is always in effect. You can't can't sequence it out.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/14 03:53:31
Subject: Mark of Tzeentch & Sanctuary
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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MoT only caps itself.
All of those rules grant a +1, that cannot get better than a certain value(and while MoT isn't one of them, many say "x cannot bring the value better than y").
If you apply the bonuses with those rules happening before you go above that value you satisfy all of its rules and then move on to the next rule in the sequence.
The cap is on the application of the mark, not the application of any other rules that create similar effects nor does it tell us the end result of all bonuses cannot get a better value; just that the mark grants a +1(up to a 3+).
Applying the rules in the following 2 orders results in the associated end results:
1) sigil grants a 4+, MoT grants +1(up to a 3+) now we are at a 3+. Sanctuary grants a +1 without a cap, now we are at a 2+.
2) sigil grants a 4+, sanctuary grants a +1, now we are at a 3+. MoT tries to grant a +1 but the cap prevents the value from getting better than a 3+, so we remain at a 3+.
Honestly, now that I am writing it all out; I would probably always let my opponents get the 2+. First, the sigil and the mark were purchased upgrades that do not go away. Second, they have to first roll for sanctuary from the psychic discipline, then they have to cast it without me denying, then it expires in their next turn and must be cast again. Between the 1 in 6 nature of rolling for powers, and the higher chance of perils in every casting; it becomes a rare risk-reward that I think is fair enough trade for breaking the mark's cap.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/14 03:54:51
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/14 04:09:48
Subject: Re:Mark of Tzeentch & Sanctuary
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Was thinking about a Tzeentch sorceror in a Cabal with the Crucible of Lies look out sir'ing his buddies.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/14 10:17:55
Subject: Mark of Tzeentch & Sanctuary
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Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought
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Sure, just don't expect people to always accept it. My group allows it, but many people won't.
HIWPI :
We treat it as somewhat of a base save modifier if that makes sense. So the possessed mutation 3++ wouldn't become 2++ since that is a base save of 3, but modifiers like sanctuary that don't have a limit themselves are fair game.
In this case the mark modifies the base 4++ to 3++ giving you a new base of 3++, which sanctuary later improves to 2++. Plus it's only a temporary buff. The mark takes whatever your current base invulnerable save is and improves that by 1 assuming it's not already a 3++, temporary effects are then applied later. This is totally just HIWPI though.
This makes it similar to the other marks that buff your stats. Instead of 4 toughness you have 5 and here, instead of 4++ you have 3++ except that this is reapplied when your save changes (like forewarning).
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