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Hi!

So me and my friend were playing a game when we ran into this situation that we could not find an answer to. So he had a chaos Lord charge into a unit of my assault marines. The lord goes on to kill 4 out of 5 and remains locked in combat with the unit. Said Chaos Lord has Hatred: Space Marines. In the next turn my dreadnought charged into the battle. We then found ourselves asking if Hatred would work against the dreadnought.

The for argument was that it was the lords first round of combat with the dreadnought thus he had hatred.

The against argument was that since it was now the 2nd round of combat for the unit with hatred that it stopped working.

What do you guys think?

Well, Hatred says, "A model striking a hated foe in close combat re-rolls all failed To Hit rolls during the first round of each close combat."

The combat the Chaos Lord is involved in is of course an ongoing one, with the Dreadnought joining an existing close combat and not starting a new close combat with a fresh first round.

Strict RAW I would say no you don't get to use hatred, but if I was playing a friendly and someone wanted to use the rerolls I wouldn't mind because it is their first round.

 Mr. Shine wrote:
Well, Hatred says, "A model striking a hated foe in close combat re-rolls all failed To Hit rolls during the first round of each close combat."

The combat the Chaos Lord is involved in is of course an ongoing one, with the Dreadnought joining an existing close combat and not starting a new close combat with a fresh first round.

But if you go by the overall combat time would a unit with hatred who joins a pre existing combat not get to use hatred?

No hatred against the dread. It was the second round of combat for the lord. Nothing vague about this one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Its the same thing as not being able to use your rad grenades in the second round of combat. If some extra unit charged into you.

Bumping for unanswered question.

The question got answered

its a new combat, as the dread wasn't part of the combat to begin with, by charging into the ongoing combat its now a new combat as its no longer the same combat as the previous one.

The combat is ongoing for the Lord, new for the dread. If the dread had hatred, he would get the rerolls. The Lord doesn't, as he already had his first round of combat, and as such already used hatred, with no stoppage of combat happening yet to provide him with a "second" first round of combat to apply hatred to. Instead he gets a second round of combat, not influenced by hatred.

I think, had they intended it to work the other way, they would have phrased the rule very differently from how they currently have. Such as: "When a model or unit with this special rule enters close combat with another unit as a result of charging or getting charged, they may reroll failed to hit rolls against that unit for the duration of one round of close combat."

I think the way they have written it is quite clear, the unit gets the rerolls if it's in its first round of combat. For me, it would have to specify that a unit entering an ongoing combat triggered the rule to accept that it did. Since it doesn't specifically allow that I can't assume it does, and there's no way anyone could say it was the first round of combat for the chaos lord. The phrase "ongoing combat" kind of destroys the chance he could benefit from hatred by itself, because the chaos lord is in one when the dread charged and the rule triggers in the first round of combat.

 CrownAxe wrote:
The question got answered

Sorry I should have been more specific in regards to which question was unanswered

"But if you go by the overall combat time would a unit with hatred who joins a pre existing combat not get to use hatred?"

Before that post that bit was not answered.

 Formosa wrote:
its a new combat, as the dread wasn't part of the combat to begin with, by charging into the ongoing combat its now a new combat as its no longer the same combat as the previous one.

Apart from the rules stating this is an ongoing combat. For example if the assault were into cover, as this is an ongoing combat the dread would strike at normal initiative, not initiative 1 (presuming not ironclad with assault launchers, or similar)