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If GW really wants to bring Primarchs back, it's a bad move. Part of the beauty of 40K is all the mystery around primarchs / the emperor, and the myths that surround them. A world where gods walks amongst men is not really a dark world. Also, good luck balancing that when they can't balance knight and eldars already.

WhiteDog wrote:
If GW really wants to bring Primarchs back, it's a bad move. Part of the beauty of 40K is all the mystery around primarchs / the emperor, and the myths that surround them. A world where gods walks amongst men is not really a dark world. Also, good luck balancing that when they can't balance knight and eldars already.

A few years I would have totally agreed with you, but I'm afraid that particular Pandora's box has been wide open ever since FW and BL started on the Heresy.

GoatboyBeta wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:
If GW really wants to bring Primarchs back, it's a bad move. Part of the beauty of 40K is all the mystery around primarchs / the emperor, and the myths that surround them. A world where gods walks amongst men is not really a dark world. Also, good luck balancing that when they can't balance knight and eldars already.

A few years I would have totally agreed with you, but I'm afraid that particular Pandora's box has been wide open ever since FW and BL started on the Heresy.

That doesn't address the balance concerns nor does it change the fact they'll **** up the story.

^this. So much of the new fluff GW has put out is on part with really bad fanwank. I would love to see them move things on, but have no faith in their ability to do so.

pm713 wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:
If GW really wants to bring Primarchs back, it's a bad move. Part of the beauty of 40K is all the mystery around primarchs / the emperor, and the myths that surround them. A world where gods walks amongst men is not really a dark world. Also, good luck balancing that when they can't balance knight and eldars already.

A few years I would have totally agreed with you, but I'm afraid that particular Pandora's box has been wide open ever since FW and BL started on the Heresy.

That doesn't address the balance concerns nor does it change the fact they'll **** up the story.

Most people will see a shiny plastic primarch's to paint, build and play with not his story and that's what GW are hoping for.

 shinros wrote:

pm713 wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:
If GW really wants to bring Primarchs back, it's a bad move. Part of the beauty of 40K is all the mystery around primarchs / the emperor, and the myths that surround them. A world where gods walks amongst men is not really a dark world. Also, good luck balancing that when they can't balance knight and eldars already.

A few years I would have totally agreed with you, but I'm afraid that particular Pandora's box has been wide open ever since FW and BL started on the Heresy.

That doesn't address the balance concerns nor does it change the fact they'll **** up the story.

Most people will see a shiny plastic primarch's to paint, build and play with not his story and that's what GW are hoping for.

They could get that already.

So basically an unbalanced, badly written, expensive thing is alright because it's new.

pm713 wrote:

 shinros wrote:

pm713 wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:
If GW really wants to bring Primarchs back, it's a bad move. Part of the beauty of 40K is all the mystery around primarchs / the emperor, and the myths that surround them. A world where gods walks amongst men is not really a dark world. Also, good luck balancing that when they can't balance knight and eldars already.

A few years I would have totally agreed with you, but I'm afraid that particular Pandora's box has been wide open ever since FW and BL started on the Heresy.

That doesn't address the balance concerns nor does it change the fact they'll **** up the story.

Most people will see a shiny plastic primarch's to paint, build and play with not his story and that's what GW are hoping for.

They could get that already.

So basically an unbalanced, badly written, expensive thing is alright because it's new.

Well yeah people will buy it if it's new and it looks pretty and it's their 40k version. That's why people will buy it. Is it right? Well I can't say since I stopped playing 40k since GW can never seem to get chaos right. All I can say is vote with your wallet it's the only language business's understand.

 shinros wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 shinros wrote:

pm713 wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:
If GW really wants to bring Primarchs back, it's a bad move. Part of the beauty of 40K is all the mystery around primarchs / the emperor, and the myths that surround them. A world where gods walks amongst men is not really a dark world. Also, good luck balancing that when they can't balance knight and eldars already.

A few years I would have totally agreed with you, but I'm afraid that particular Pandora's box has been wide open ever since FW and BL started on the Heresy.

That doesn't address the balance concerns nor does it change the fact they'll **** up the story.

Most people will see a shiny plastic primarch's to paint, build and play with not his story and that's what GW are hoping for.

They could get that already.

So basically an unbalanced, badly written, expensive thing is alright because it's new.

Well yeah people will buy it if it's new and it looks pretty and it's their 40k version. That's why people will buy it. Is it right? Well I can't say since I stopped playing 40k since GW can never seem to get chaos right. All I can say is vote with your wallet it's the only language business's understand.

People also won't buy it for those reasons.

The vote with your wallet stuff is rubbish. It won't make a difference to GW because it means nothing. You didn't buy the new thing but why? Not your army, don't like it, can't afford, won't use it, no room, have another companies model and the list goes on.

This is anecdotal almost everyone I talked to that bought Alarielle the everqueen when it was put out of stock for a few weeks. Bought her simply for the fact that she looks "pretty".

People walk into my local GW pick her up and buy her. Manager ask's why? She looks nice....

From what I have seen they did not buy her because of how she played or her story.

Now 40k might be different in terms of gaming but I doubt many people will buy him for "lore reasons"

Well in my experience voting with your wallet is normally the only way to get a company's attention. I said the same thing to all those people who bought total war warhammer and telling me they want GW to burn for axing fantasy look how that turned out?

From the perspective of GW what is the difference between person A and Person B.
Person A does not buy Alarielle because they play Death.

Person B does not buy Alarielle because they are protesting.

What is the difference?

pm713 wrote:
From the perspective of GW what is the difference between person A and Person B.
Person A does not buy Alarielle because they play Death.

Person B does not buy Alarielle because they are protesting.

What is the difference?

What will happen is that GW will look and wonder why it's not selling if numbers are extremely low. Normally what then happens they look and see overall what the customers concern is with the product and act accordingly. Now will everyone be satisfied with the change or improvement? No AOS is a pretty good example of that.

It's like total war and the beastmen DLC people on the forums complained about the price yet it's third in the global steam sales. Of course sega's pockets are lined with the people who feel the price is okay if no one bought the thing then they will look at the consumers concerns on the product and change the price.

Anyway this is getting off topic.

 shinros wrote:

pm713 wrote:
From the perspective of GW what is the difference between person A and Person B.
Person A does not buy Alarielle because they play Death.

Person B does not buy Alarielle because they are protesting.

What is the difference?

What will happen is that GW will look and wonder why it's not selling if numbers are extremely low. Normally what then happens they look and see overall what the customers concern is with the product and act accordingly. Now will everyone be satisfied with the change or improvement? No AOS is a pretty good example of that.

It's like total war and the beastmen DLC people on the forums complained about the price yet it's third in the global steam sales. Of course sega's pockets are lined with the people who feel the price is okay if no one bought the thing then they will look at the consumers concerns on the product and change the price.

Anyway this is getting off topic.

I agree. This is going off topic.

pm713 wrote:

Triszin wrote:
If Rogal Dorn is the first Primarch to return then.

I expect Rogal to return in an upcoming campaign involving necron.

The necron lord collector dude, was stated to have something along the lines of this.

"A massive figure clad in baroque power armor Locked in stasis"

I assume that Dorn, so he gets out somehow and goes, I gotta do stuff and things!@

Why does everyone think that's Dorn?!

They don't. The most touted explanation is that it's Vulkan - but that's just as much speculation as Dorn. Apparently a WD issue hinted it was Vulkan, but a hint is all. Note that, Trazyn the Infinite also has Brother Cassiel of the Blood Angels, who was said to be a 'giant', clad in his baroque Deathwatch armour and that Trazyn has twice goaded the Salamanders into attacking him, seeking to obtain the Spear of Vulkan. So he either has Vulkan and wants to complete the collection with the Spear and also has Cassiel, or simply has Cassiel and the Vulkan thing has been retconned by Cassiels appearance - you choose.

EDIT: The WD in question is Feb 22nd 2014 and says:

White Dwarf wrote:In Trazyn’s background it describes a lengthy selection of his trophies, including a “giant
of a man clad in baroque power armour”. The team has furiously debated exactly who this
could be. Adam argues that it could well be the Primarch Vulkan, while Jes insists that
there simply isn’t enough evidence to make such a spurious claim.

So, it stems from highly ambiguous debating of the WD team.

 Warpig1815 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Triszin wrote:
If Rogal Dorn is the first Primarch to return then.

I expect Rogal to return in an upcoming campaign involving necron.

The necron lord collector dude, was stated to have something along the lines of this.

"A massive figure clad in baroque power armor Locked in stasis"

I assume that Dorn, so he gets out somehow and goes, I gotta do stuff and things!@

Why does everyone think that's Dorn?!

They don't. The most touted explanation is that it's Vulkan - but that's just as much speculation as Dorn. Apparently a WD issue hinted it was Vulkan, but a hint is all. Note that, Trazyn the Infinite also has Brother Cassiel of the Blood Angels, who was said to be a 'giant', clad in his baroque Deathwatch armour and that Trazyn has twice goaded the Salamanders into attacking him, seeking to obtain the Spear of Vulkan. So he either has Vulkan and wants to complete the collection with the Spear and also has Cassiel, or simply has Cassiel and the Vulkan thing has been retconned by Cassiels appearance - you choose.

I only ever see people saying Dorn hence my impression of things.

Check my edit - that's where it comes from.

Is there a roundup of the actual, well-informed rumors anywhere? The first page doesn't really sum up anything for the following 16 pages.

I just don't understand how so many rumors are suddenly appearing out of the woodwork after the Eldrad sprue got leaked. Its just too convenient regardless of how many people's 'inside sources' (your store manager just wants you to buy more models guys) say otherwise.

Are people seriously trying to spread the rumor that they would make a 40k version of Rogal Dorn (with a gun hand apparently) before they make a 30k version when they are ALREADY MAKING THE 30k PRIMARCHS. I just don't see it. Magnus I can buy because the demon primarchs are for all intents and purposes, greater demons at this point. Heck, Aggron is literally a bloodthirster. I don't see GW making warhammer into Age of 30k Primarchs.

Months ago they said they will be letting more employees see what they are working on and share it. As well as telling people more in advance what it upcoming.

pm713 wrote:
From the perspective of GW what is the difference between person A and Person B.
Person A does not buy Alarielle because they play Death.

Person B does not buy Alarielle because they are protesting.

What is the difference?

To GW there isn't one, but really what does that matter?

GW isn't beholden to your whims anymore than they are to mine. The only difference between us is that I'm person A and you are person B, and GW will make whatever products they think are interesting or will reach their target audience regardless of what either of us want. It just so happens taht I'm enjoying a lot of their changes while you aren't.

Maybe, rather than asking how you can bully GW into doing what you want, you should instead start asking if you are still part of GW's target audience?

It could be a total disaster or it could be really good, either way I'm keeping a sneaky eye on a few "how to paint yellow space marines" tutorials
In a slightly related note https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/970 Atia's posting of the Luna wolves badge in the coments has me thinking that we might be seeing some 30k specific colours in the future.

 Don Savik wrote:
I don't see GW making warhammer into Age of 30k Primarchs.

18 months ago people didn't see them dumping fb. Where that got us?

Gw needs to up the sales big time if they don't want to end up ip renter only. They either try something or end up with dead miniature section. What they will try is another thing but they do what they want and existing fluff is irrelevant. What matters is what they think will boost sales. Which isn't same as what forum actives might want.

Okay so if this is a campaign like weve been seeing with Call of the wulfen and eldar get their own rules and such, wouldn't this be the 3rd time in 3 years eldar have been updated? SW and CD got more or less updated when War Zone Fenris came out.

pepsuber wrote:
Okay so if this is a campaign like weve been seeing with Call of the wulfen and eldar get their own rules and such, wouldn't this be the 3rd time in 3 years eldar have been updated? SW and CD got more or less updated when War Zone Fenris came out.

Eldar are in overly good shape, rules wise, but their model range could use some updating. Putting them up against Deathwatch makes sense thematically (Xenos-hunters) and lets them do a model-centric release for Eldar, while Deathwatch are rules focused with a couple kits but not a huge range. Later, they can do Genestealer cult and have them face off against the established Deathwatch, with the focus on a new codex and models for Cult, as opposed to splitting interest between them and Deathwatch by putting out two full codices with both rules and models at the same time.

18 months before AoS the reliable rumormongers said that WFB is dead and will be replaced with a new game, bad selling miniatures ranges removed and the setting rebooted Hastings and Harry made this very clear. Half a year earlier there were the leaks from Spain who had reported this for the first time.

Now the reliable rumormongers, Atia and SP, are reporting there will not be a reboot of the setting but they will continue the timeline in small steps There is also Aaron Dembski-Bowden with a more conservative approach pointing out this is most likely more about fleshing out current events. The reliable rumormongers made it clear they are not Aos-ificating the rules and the setting - even responding directly to hysteria posts.

And to get the facts right, Daemon Primarchs were nothing spectacular in Epic, we used them during the 2nd Edition in every Chaos army. GW is just taking use of their plastic technology to bring Epic units into 40k - like they did with the Lord of Skulls, Baneblade, Stompa etc.

And people are still not getting that 40k has been in the End Times, Ragnarok, Goetterdaemmerung (add all the other terms) since 1987? It means nothing. It is just the 5-minutes to midnight setting.

The Time of Ending (since 5th Edition?) has been a thing for at least 8 years. How is that a surprise now? They are already with this for a while.

Those people who cant get over GW rebooting WFB are now driving the fearmongering train because they still havent understood that their 'golden game' was just a turd. (Sorry to say, I like WFB too, but it was in a bad situation)

40k is the best selling and most played wargame on the planet. Why do people cant see the difference? If GW are pragmatical they wont even think about changing any rules or advancing the setting much - because their is no need, no pressure to.

Are people still basing thoughts on reliable information, logic and rationality? Or is fearmongering the new ccol kid in town all follow now?

This is not at all an identical situation to the bad selling WFB. Yes, things will change, maybe even the Emperor dies and gets ressurrected. What would be the issue with that actually? We would then have three settings, 30k, 40k, 42k. How is that a problem or much different to now where we have two already?

Warhams-77 wrote:
18 months before AoS the reliable rumormongers said that WFB is dead and will be replaced with a new game, bad selling miniatures ranges removed and the setting rebooted Hastings and Harry made this very clear. Half a year earlier there were the leaks from Spain who had reported this for the first time.

Now the reliable rumormongers, Atia and SP, are reporting there will not be a reboot of the setting but they will continue the timeline in small steps There is also Aaron Dembski-Bowden with a more conservative approach pointing out this is most likely more about fleshing out current events. The reliable rumormongers made it clear they are not Aos-ificating both the rules and the setting - even respondind directly to hysteria.

And to get the facts right, Daemon Primarchs were nothing spectacular in Epic, we used them during the 2nd Edition in every Chaos army. GW is just taking use of their plastic technology to bring them into 40k - like they did with the Lord of Skull, Baneblades, Stompa etc.

And people are still not getting that 40k has been in the End Times, Ragnarok, Goetterdaemmerung (add all the other terms) since 1987? It means nothing. It just a 5-minutes for midnight setting the game has always been set in. Check the rule books. The term End Times has always been there.

The Times of Ending (since 5th Edition?) have been a thing for at least 8 years. How is that a surprise?

Those people who cant get over GW rebooting WFB are now driving the fearmongering train because they still havent understand that their 'golden game' was just a turd.

40k is the best selling and most played wargame on the planet. Why do people cant see the differences? If they are pragmatical they wont even think about changing any rules or advancing the setting much - because their is no need to.

Are people still basing thoughts on reliable information, logic and rationality? Or is fearmongering the new ccol kid in town all follow now?

This is not at all an identical situation to the low selling WFB.

Except people are still ignoring the reliable sources and believe the made up bullocks...

A-fragging-men

 Gamgee wrote:
Months ago they said they will be letting more employees see what they are working on and share it. As well as telling people more in advance what it upcoming.

Can I get the source on this? Because Rountree or not, this sounds pretty bogus to me. Yes, GW have been more 'user-friendly' with their rules and to some extent pricing, but the advance notice on stuff is ONLY from Forge World and the Specialist Games studio, both of which are separate entities to GW

 Rygnan wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Months ago they said they will be letting more employees see what they are working on and share it. As well as telling people more in advance what it upcoming.

Can I get the source on this? Because Rountree or not, this sounds pretty bogus to me. Yes, GW have been more 'user-friendly' with their rules and to some extent pricing, but the advance notice on stuff is ONLY from Forge World and the Specialist Games studio, both of which are separate entities to GW

Well, there's been things with a longer preorder date than before. General's handbook was 3 weeks, and Lost Patrol and the Gorechosen games were 2/3 months. Might be them experimenting with longer preorders and advance notice on products.

I cant believe they meant anything but showing employees things like the Generals handbook in advance. Which they also showed to selected players and tournament organizers.

Regarding Ishagu's rumors and credibility, these are old, first time posted in May, then again around the 17th of July. His rumors about HH2 contents are contradicting SP's and dont mention SoS and Custodes at all. I dont believe him until he has proven to be reliable.

I think many of these less reliable rumors are just posted to provoke a reaction from those who are in the know.

Rogal Dorn in plastic sounds like something from my wishlist and too good to be true. A plastic warhound would be fantastic.

Bell of lost souls Turkey have no shame anymore. Do they even try to pretend they aren't making up their rumours nowadays?

I am not even going to dignify that wish list with a response. It is typical BoLS level garbage.

So are people thinking that the Ulthwe v. Deathwatch stuff will be a game, boxed set, or some releases with a campaign book tying them together? We know a Chaos campaign is coming, so I can't imagine they would put another one out so close to it.

One thing I am kinda thinking is a boxed set with Eldrad, some Guardians, and a Wave Serpent v. Captain Artemis, a Deathwatch Kill Team (possibly made from a Sternguard Squad), and the Deathwatch Flyer that Sad Panda mentioned. Lady Atia said it is Deathwatch v. Eldar coming, so that is what is leading me to that conclusion. I hope it is more of a general release of different stuff. I am looking forward to supplementing my DW:OK stuff to make a more legitimate army.