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 GoonBandito wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
You can bring a fluffy list that goes beyond multiples of the best unit. When I think of the platoon sized engagements of 30k, I don't think of nine artillery pieces, light or not. When you look even at siege formations, they're going to have the assault force, not just artillery.

People run 9 of those? What an odd choice. I would think it would fall over dead to an army heavy on armored units or Knight lists or Drop Pod armies.

3 Quad Mortar's with Shatter Shells will on average do 6HPs to AV12. If you catch a Knight on an unshielded side arc odds are you'll destroy it.

First, they have to take the SM Consul for Phosphex, which they can't use against my Knights. Then they pay for said Phosphex shells. Then they have to pay for the Shatter Shells. So that is about 900pt right there and ties up a Consul slot and 3 of 4 Elite slots. And all it takes is a Drop Pod full of nasty AP3 weapons or high-volume firepower to nuke the unit. They can't shoot under 12" either, so if you don't scatter too much, you are good. And Outflanking and Deep Striking units can give them issues too.

And let's not forget that Phosphex is 36" - so it can be outshot at range, under many circumstances.

And yes, 3+ Quads with Shatter is scary to my Knights. So, I have to make sure my Styrix lights them up real good before I move in.

 Ashiraya wrote:


Kronk runs foot breacher IF. List tailoring to face quad mortar spam is almost as TFG as running quad mortar spam.

I agree with Kronk, btw. Quad mortars should never have had a phosphex option to begin with.

I agree with me list-tailoring would be a TFG move, so I won't.

However, I don't run foot breacher. I got paired with someone that did at AdepiCon though. He would be boned against 9x Phosphex Quad Mortars.

I run Templar Brethren in a Land Raider supported by a pair of Tacs in Rhinos, a few Heavy Support Squads, and a Contemptor Dreadnought as my base army. I also have a Tactical Support Squad (6 meltas) that can ride in a Dreadclaw.

However, while I have tools that can deal with 9x Quad Mortars, I shouldn't have to. It's a dick move to bring them. You know they're broken, I know they're broken, your mom knows they're broken. Don't bring them.

I don't think they are nice, but I don't think they are broken. If they want to eat up three of their Elite slots and an HQ slot to get around 30% of their army that can be mitigated by a handful of armies pretty easily (flyers, outflankers, deep strikers, Pods, long-range firepower), then power to them. I think it is not as good of a plan as bringing a well-rounded force. At least, when it comes to more standardized/competitive play.

If it is a friendly game and they do that... that is another animal. Smile as you watch them never get a game in again until they stop that BS.

 KiloFiX wrote:
I was running DG against Sallies. I had 6 Mortars, w/Shatter+Phosphex (which btw makes them expensive).

Sallies flat-out'ed a Spartan. I wrecked it. 10 Terminators piled out and kiled all the Mortars.

They're good but not invincible.

True but i had the exact same thing against my iron warriors, ten firedrakes popped out a spartan, failed a 4" charge and took 3x4 phosphex mortars on the unit, dropped near 60 wounds on them.

The way I see it, running three of them is fine in a friendly game. I will reserve anymore then that for tournament.

OP




I even know an Iron Warriors player who started taking them and then stopped as he realized that he risked losing friends over it.

I think in one battle he must have killed 40 marines, 10 kataphracts and wrecked a Spartan and done quite a bit more damage.

Now compare that to what a Basilsk costs....

Yeah, that's another point: so long as you're not playing TFG, most people won't generally spam them.

As a DG player (and I think most other players as well), I've got 2 or 3 fluffy lists that I generally don't bring to friendly games as they tend to be a bit on the stupidly strong side (Chem spam (pumps out ~36 phosphex templates a turn, on top of 2 full missile squads and 2 huge tactical squads), Terminator spam (doesn't sound that effective, 'till you gotta deal with 66 Terminators and a Primarch), Mass Infantry (3-4 tactical squads + support w/ auxilia allies. For some reason this one catches most people hugely off guard), etc.)

 KiloFiX wrote:
I was running DG against Sallies. I had 6 Mortars, w/Shatter+Phosphex (which btw makes them expensive).

Sallies flat-out'ed a Spartan. I wrecked it. 10 Terminators piled out and kiled all the Mortars.

They're good but not invincible.

Did they have poisoned weapons? Killing a T7 3+ armour unit takes some serious firepower. My experience was drop a unit of ten terminators, kill one guy with shooting, then get pasted by the mortars.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

 KiloFiX wrote:
I was running DG against Sallies. I had 6 Mortars, w/Shatter+Phosphex (which btw makes them expensive).

Sallies flat-out'ed a Spartan. I wrecked it. 10 Terminators piled out and kiled all the Mortars.

They're good but not invincible.

Did they have poisoned weapons? Killing a T7 3+ armour unit takes some serious firepower. My experience was drop a unit of ten terminators, kill one guy with shooting, then get pasted by the mortars.

sounds like he got charged: where they simply become 6 marines with bolters

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

 KiloFiX wrote:
I was running DG against Sallies. I had 6 Mortars, w/Shatter+Phosphex (which btw makes them expensive).

Sallies flat-out'ed a Spartan. I wrecked it. 10 Terminators piled out and kiled all the Mortars.

They're good but not invincible.

Did they have poisoned weapons? Killing a T7 3+ armour unit takes some serious firepower. My experience was drop a unit of ten terminators, kill one guy with shooting, then get pasted by the mortars.

In CC i dont think they use the T7 from the artillery.

 Desubot wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

 KiloFiX wrote:
I was running DG against Sallies. I had 6 Mortars, w/Shatter+Phosphex (which btw makes them expensive).

Sallies flat-out'ed a Spartan. I wrecked it. 10 Terminators piled out and kiled all the Mortars.

They're good but not invincible.

Did they have poisoned weapons? Killing a T7 3+ armour unit takes some serious firepower. My experience was drop a unit of ten terminators, kill one guy with shooting, then get pasted by the mortars.

In CC i dont think they use the T7 from the artillery.

They dont artilery are ignored when it comes to cc.

 King Amroth wrote:

They dont artilery are ignored when it comes to cc.

i was trying to be sarcastic

i failed i think

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
OP




I even know an Iron Warriors player who started taking them and then stopped as he realized that he risked losing friends over it.

I think in one battle he must have killed 40 marines, 10 kataphracts and wrecked a Spartan and done quite a bit more damage.

Now compare that to what a Basilsk costs....

Ive had to do the same, i was running a heavy Iron Warriors army with tyrants havocs and quad mortars and after overpowering the op armies in my group its been removed from the table, for a lot of units its just the unreal ability to force saves on scoring units that wins the game.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

First, they have to take the SM Consul for Phosphex, which they can't use against my Knights. Then they pay for said Phosphex shells. Then they have to pay for the Shatter Shells. So that is about 900pt right there and ties up a Consul slot and 3 of 4 Elite slots. And all it takes is a Drop Pod full of nasty AP3 weapons or high-volume firepower to nuke the unit. They can't shoot under 12" either, so if you don't scatter too much, you are good.

You may want to re-read the rules on everything you just mentioned, as there are a lot of things wrong with it.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
You can bring a fluffy list that goes beyond multiples of the best unit. When I think of the platoon sized engagements of 30k, I don't think of nine artillery pieces, light or not. When you look even at siege formations, they're going to have the assault force, not just artillery.

People run 9 of those? What an odd choice. I would think it would fall over dead to an army heavy on armored units or Knight lists or Drop Pod armies.

3 Quad Mortar's with Shatter Shells will on average do 6HPs to AV12. If you catch a Knight on an unshielded side arc odds are you'll destroy it.

First, they have to take the SM Consul for Phosphex, which they can't use against my Knights. Then they pay for said Phosphex shells. Then they have to pay for the Shatter Shells. So that is about 900pt right there and ties up a Consul slot and 3 of 4 Elite slots. And all it takes is a Drop Pod full of nasty AP3 weapons or high-volume firepower to nuke the unit. They can't shoot under 12" either, so if you don't scatter too much, you are good. And Outflanking and Deep Striking units can give them issues too.

And let's not forget that Phosphex is 36" - so it can be outshot at range, under many circumstances.

And yes, 3+ Quads with Shatter is scary to my Knights. So, I have to make sure my Styrix lights them up real good before I move in.

Has there been some massive change up i didnt know about? Sure you need a siege breaker for phosphex but he will also be giving an important unit or atleast should be giving an important unit tank hunter as well. You dont need him to get shatter shells though and they already have sunder.
Having 3 units of 3 12 shot strength 8 sunder artillery pieces is going to take a look at your knights and start to giggle and then ask if you want to forfeit now and that is all gonna cost them less than 800 points and that is assuming they didnt bring anything else heavy to throw at you such as heavy support squads with high strength weapons, deredeos, havocs, tyrants or the ultramarines rip off tyrants and there are so many others.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I love my Quad mortars, they are fluffy for my legion and fun to use but the simple fact is they are underpriced for how powerful they are.

 King Amroth wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
You can bring a fluffy list that goes beyond multiples of the best unit. When I think of the platoon sized engagements of 30k, I don't think of nine artillery pieces, light or not. When you look even at siege formations, they're going to have the assault force, not just artillery.

People run 9 of those? What an odd choice. I would think it would fall over dead to an army heavy on armored units or Knight lists or Drop Pod armies.

3 Quad Mortar's with Shatter Shells will on average do 6HPs to AV12. If you catch a Knight on an unshielded side arc odds are you'll destroy it.

First, they have to take the SM Consul for Phosphex, which they can't use against my Knights. Then they pay for said Phosphex shells. Then they have to pay for the Shatter Shells. So that is about 900pt right there and ties up a Consul slot and 3 of 4 Elite slots. And all it takes is a Drop Pod full of nasty AP3 weapons or high-volume firepower to nuke the unit. They can't shoot under 12" either, so if you don't scatter too much, you are good. And Outflanking and Deep Striking units can give them issues too.

And let's not forget that Phosphex is 36" - so it can be outshot at range, under many circumstances.

And yes, 3+ Quads with Shatter is scary to my Knights. So, I have to make sure my Styrix lights them up real good before I move in.

Has there been some massive change up i didnt know about? Sure you need a siege breaker for phosphex but he will also be giving an important unit or atleast should be giving an important unit tank hunter as well. You dont need him to get shatter shells though and they already have sunder.
Having 3 units of 3 12 shot strength 8 sunder artillery pieces is going to take a look at your knights and start to giggle and then ask if you want to forfeit now and that is all gonna cost them less than 800 points and that is assuming they didnt bring anything else heavy to throw at you such as heavy support squads with high strength weapons, deredeos, havocs, tyrants or the ultramarines rip off tyrants and there are so many others.

We are assuming that people are taking both Sunder shells (the only version with sunder) and phosphex for this discussion as far as I can tell. otherwise you are pretty much correct.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

First, they have to take the SM Consul for Phosphex, which they can't use against my Knights. Then they pay for said Phosphex shells. Then they have to pay for the Shatter Shells. So that is about 900pt right there and ties up a Consul slot and 3 of 4 Elite slots. And all it takes is a Drop Pod full of nasty AP3 weapons or high-volume firepower to nuke the unit. They can't shoot under 12" either, so if you don't scatter too much, you are good.

You may want to re-read the rules on everything you just mentioned, as there are a lot of things wrong with it.

Not sure how. I have the latest CAL book in front of me. You take the Rapier Quad Mortar at base cost which has Frag. Buy a SM Consul, which unlocks Phosphex. Then you buy Shatter and Phosphex for the Quad Mortars. You can drop in next to them and shoot them up, as I mentioned.

I may be rusty on my artillery rules, but I know they have the 12" min range, but can they shoot within 12" directly? I honestly, don't remember.

What did I miss?

As for someone taking Quads against my Knights, I am not sweating it. Not only is no one near me that big of a dick, but I can sit back and shoot them with my 60" range S8 AP3 Volkite guns or wade in with my Ionic Flare Shields to make them a lot less reliable to pop my Knights.

My whole point was that while they are gross, they are not broken.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On an aside, I will say that new Deredeo gun has me worried. A lot.

Exoshock for the...... well i would say win but hell its even worse than that.

 King Amroth wrote:
Exoshock for the...... well i would say win but hell its even worse than that.

Yep. The new Deredeo is 290pt of just kills the out of everything.