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 Purifier wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Same here with IG and I'd rather have more instant death

My Sicarian Infiltrator Warlord is meant to get into combat. He doesn't huddle behind the rest, throwing out combat orders.

So Skitarii are like all Eldar, Dark Eldar, Harlequin etc leaders then? They die to S6.

Well, no. We don't have jetbikes to get it up to T4, and we don't have anything like Maugan Ra or Baharroth.

Dark Eldar don't have those either. Or Harlequins.

I honestly have no idea what Dark Eldar have, but since you're wrong about Harlequins (Skyweavers,) that makes it 2 out of 3 of the ones you mentioned that I *know* you're wrong about, so I'm not gonna take your word for it.

Edit: I looked it up.

T4: Haemonculus, Drazhar, Wracks, Khymera
T5: Sslyth, Urien Rakarth, Grotesques, Clawed Fiend

Jesus, man. Could you be more wrong?

I said Eldar, Dark Eldar and Harlequins can be ID'd by S6.

Autarchs, Archons, Farseers, Warlocks, Yriel, Illic, Succubus, Troupe Master, 6 (assuming I haven't forgotten any) Aspect Warrior units, Kabalites, Wyches. Do you want me to go on?

Ban Taus

I'd like to see the imbalance of shooting vs combat be addressed. I'd almost be ok with the terrible Ork codex if I wasn't completely hammered by the end of turn 1 (why can shooting nuke me turn 1 but I can't do the same with close combat turn 1?).

I'd be happy to go back to 3rd/4th though, I guess!

 Selym wrote:
You can't consolidate into combat. Not since 4E.

And it's bad because any unit that can wipe out an enemy unit in one assault phase without really taking damage can, in theory, take out an entire army in one turn. Imagine a unit built to have I6, 2-4 attacks per model on the charge, Ap 2/3 weapons and the strength/kit to bust tanks.

That is quite an exaggeration. The opponent whose squad got gakked should have seen the writing on the wall and positioned his army for a counter attack. You. Ant take out an army in one turn. This game is won in the shooting phase as cc has been eroded away slowly over editions. Probably because it's easier for new players to understand the shooting phase and brings in more money.

As a Krieg player what do I counter attack with?

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

 Selym wrote:
You can't consolidate into combat. Not since 4E.

And it's bad because any unit that can wipe out an enemy unit in one assault phase without really taking damage can, in theory, take out an entire army in one turn. Imagine a unit built to have I6, 2-4 attacks per model on the charge, Ap 2/3 weapons and the strength/kit to bust tanks.

That is quite an exaggeration. The opponent whose squad got gakked should have seen the writing on the wall and positioned his army for a counter attack. You. Ant take out an army in one turn. This game is won in the shooting phase as cc has been eroded away slowly over editions. Probably because it's easier for new players to understand the shooting phase and brings in more money.

for a lot of armies there never were real answers to CC consolidations, especially with the way terrai worked to block LoS. 5E probably had the best overall balance, allowing assaults from reserve and stationary transports, but I remember watching 4E games where, between LoS and consolidations, one player would lose without almost ever firing a shot.

Alternatively, we could allow consolidations again but allow shooting into CC

 Bobthehero wrote:
As a Krieg player what do I counter attack with?

I don't know.. The rest of your army..

Nice joke, WS4 guardsmen are fancy, but that's all they got

He didn't say "counter attack" meaning an assault...

 Elbows wrote:
He didn't say "counter attack" meaning an assault...

Well, ostensibly if we're discussing things consolidating into new combats, assault would be the only way one could do so as you cannot shoot into CC.

I'm quite surprised no one else has mentioned the price of models or price of everything in general. Such as how much models cost $ wise, or books, and so on.

I agree the other things mentioned would be a nice change, but a reduction in $ would probably help a lot.

I lile the idea of shooting into combat.

I've always thought it was dumb. Hey let's slaughter our troops to kill a few enemies.

What if consolidating into combat was just that, a consolidation? As in you wouldn't have a second fight sub-phase, but would be locked in combat and fight in your opponents phase, probably gaining no extra attacks/other benefits from charging. Note that you can't consolidate after destroying a vehicle in CC.

 Engine of War wrote:
I'm quite surprised no one else has mentioned the price of models or price of everything in general. Such as how much models cost $ wise, or books, and so on.

I agree the other things mentioned would be a nice change, but a reduction in $ would probably help a lot.

They did... Top half of page 1.

pm713 wrote:
I've always thought it was dumb. Hey let's slaughter our troops to kill a few enemies.

There are plenty of armies that just wouldn't care in the least if they killed some enemies. Isn't it an Ork thing that "if it dies, it's an enemy, if it lives, it's friendly"?

 reiner wrote:
Rule set as a living document.

If anything is learned from Age of Sigmar, as well as the historical Specialist Games, I hope it's this - that free basic rules will inspire people to try out the game and inspire model purchases, but a £50 hardback book is a hurdle too far for a beginner who already has to buy a Get Started box and paints.

If I had a wish I'd want 40Ks basic rules and codices to be available for free as bare bones PDFs. I'd still have pretty hardbacks with full colour illustrations available, big fluff sections and perhaps some more details on special missions but the free download would be just enough to get going.

 Silverthorne wrote:
I'd like the game to be mainstream, more so than video games for example. Then there would be a lot more people to play with and all the other things would probably fall into place.

Hey it's a wish--- might as well go big.

I second that. More video games, more comics and a Netflix tv series about an inquisitorial warband. It could be done and would help the hobby a lot.

 Engine of War wrote:
I'm quite surprised no one else has mentioned the price of models or price of everything in general. Such as how much models cost $ wise, or books, and so on.

I agree the other things mentioned would be a nice change, but a reduction in $ would probably help a lot.

It's reply number 3.

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
Only one aspect eh?
Lower prices.

Ne_Streets wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I've always thought it was dumb. Hey let's slaughter our troops to kill a few enemies.

There are plenty of armies that just wouldn't care in the least if they killed some enemies. Isn't it an Ork thing that "if it dies, it's an enemy, if it lives, it's friendly"?

There's more who care a great deal.

pm713 wrote:


Autarchs, Archons, Farseers, Warlocks, Yriel, Illic, Succubus, Troupe Master, 6 (assuming I haven't forgotten any) Aspect Warrior units, Kabalites, Wyches. Do you want me to go on?

Nope, that wasn't the discussion. It was about the Warlord, and every one of those armies have models that can be T4. Skitarii doesn't. There isn't one model in the army that can allow you to have a Warlord with over T3.

you even said the word "Leaders" yourself. Don't start moving the goal posts to win an argument.

 Purifier wrote:

pm713 wrote:


Autarchs, Archons, Farseers, Warlocks, Yriel, Illic, Succubus, Troupe Master, 6 (assuming I haven't forgotten any) Aspect Warrior units, Kabalites, Wyches. Do you want me to go on?

Nope, that wasn't the discussion. It was about the Warlord, and every one of those armies have models that can be T4. Skitarii doesn't. There isn't one model in the army that can allow you to have a Warlord with over T3.

you even said the word "Leaders" yourself. Don't start moving the goal posts to win an argument.

I don't need to move any goal posts.

My point was the armies mentioned also have T3 warlords.

Autarch, Farseer, Archon, Succubus, Troupe Master, Death Jester, Shadowseer, Illic and Yriel. All of these are T3. Therefore they can also be ID'd by S6.

pm713 wrote:


Autarch, Farseer, Archon, Succubus, Troupe Master, Death Jester, Shadowseer, Illic and Yriel. All of these are T3. Therefore they can also be ID'd by S6.

So they are "just like Skitarii in that" even though they have perfectly fine T4 and even T5 choices as well which is what I was saying about Skitarii that they haven't? Not to mention that most of those T3 aren't melee units.

You can sort of just pick in what way you are wrong about them being "just like Skitarii."

I mean gak, most armies have *something* that's T3, so I guess *every* army is just like Skitarii.

 Purifier wrote:

pm713 wrote:


Autarch, Farseer, Archon, Succubus, Troupe Master, Death Jester, Shadowseer, Illic and Yriel. All of these are T3. Therefore they can also be ID'd by S6.

So they are "just like Skitarii in that" even though they have perfectly fine T4 and even T5 choices as well which is what I was saying about Skitarii that they haven't? Not to mention that most of those T3 aren't melee units.

You can sort of just pick in what way you are wrong about them being "just like Skitarii."

I mean gak, most armies have *something* that's T3, so I guess *every* army is just like Skitarii.

I'd say half at least are melee.

You seem to be deliberately dodging the point.

pm713 wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

pm713 wrote:


Autarch, Farseer, Archon, Succubus, Troupe Master, Death Jester, Shadowseer, Illic and Yriel. All of these are T3. Therefore they can also be ID'd by S6.

So they are "just like Skitarii in that" even though they have perfectly fine T4 and even T5 choices as well which is what I was saying about Skitarii that they haven't? Not to mention that most of those T3 aren't melee units.

You can sort of just pick in what way you are wrong about them being "just like Skitarii."

I mean gak, most armies have *something* that's T3, so I guess *every* army is just like Skitarii.

I'd say half at least are melee.

You seem to be deliberately dodging the point.

In what way? The point is "Skitarii has no option to having a T3 Warlord, so I don't like Instant Death."
That was the argument, that was the point.

All of the armies you mentioned *do* have options to getting higher toughness Warlords, so picking one with lower is a conscious choice for them. One that they most certainly do not need to make.

The question is, what is your point? Because you're either trying to move the goal posts again, or you jumped into something without checking that you were talking about the same thing as the people talking about it.

And then you're like "oh yeah, these armies are just the same as Skitarii!" In what way? They have the options I was saying we don't have! So they are literally the opposite of just like them!

This is getting away from the topic an is pretty petty back and forth stuff.
Take it to another thread if it's important or even better take it to PM.

Krieg and Scions don't have T4 options, while they're shooty army, there's no lack of Str 6 shooting and so their warlords will die just as quick.

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
This is getting away from the topic an is pretty petty back and forth stuff.
Take it to another thread if it's important or even better take it to PM.

Thanks for your opinion, it's very on topic. If you feel we're derailing, report it. Don't throw fire on the fuel.

I already did, just saving the Mods some keyboard work.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Krieg and Scions don't have T4 options, while they're shooty army, there's no lack of Str 6 shooting and so their warlords will die just as quick.

Scions are actually a good shout. They have around the same model count and inability to keep back behind pure weight of fire in an easy way and they're forced to take a HQ of which none can really take a melee fight any better than the Skitarii ones. Krieg, I have never faced, but I sort of imagine them to be as evasive as the IG and it's not really a huge problem for the IG. But like I said. Never faced them, never played as them.

But Scions, you've definitely got a point there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
I already did, just saving the Mods some keyboard work.

You're a true hero.