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 Manchu wrote:
Regarding spoilers, because this is an ongoing series I think we better try to use the tags. I saw someone had posted in the thread and clicked to see if it was about something I had already been discussing about previous episodes - nope, major spoiler about new episode! So yeah, the tags will be useful.

Good point about certain Redshirts having longer, more meaningful lives. And yes I agree I really liked her and am sorry to see her go. Although

Spoiler:

I liked her a lot less when I saw her behave like a moron in that episode.

Yes, that's what made it even worse. And I think there is need of a character like her. She's strikes me as a hardliner, militaristic type (how often have we heard someone yell "set phasers to kill!!" in trek?). Doesn't mean she was born that way but many in Starfleet would have been pushed to that after 6 months of war. I think the show has done a good job of having equal representation from the pragmatic and idealistic camps. Lorca is obviously subscribes to the former school of thought and a guy like that always needs a right hand man of the same mentality. I would've been some serious cash after episode 3 that would have been her.

I expected something was gonna happen because she wasn't listed as a regular cast member. But the show is pretty idealist-heavy anyhow: Michael, Saru, Tilly, and Stamets are all in that camp.

But I guess we are about to meet Harry Mudd, a practical man if there ever was one.

I am glad they are making another Star Trek show. I am big star trek fan I have seen seen almost every star trek movie or TVshow. But i hope it will not be all about Klingons. I Think i have seen enough Klingon war stuff. I would like to see them go “Where no man has gone before”

 Manchu wrote:
I expected something was gonna happen because she wasn't listed as a regular cast member. But the show is pretty idealist-heavy anyhow: Michael, Saru, Tilly, and Stamets are all in that camp.

But I guess we are about to meet Harry Mudd, a practical man if there ever was one.

That's what I mean. Lorca needs Landry in his camp. He may need a goon. But I don't mean she should just be a villain. If you can take someone like that and show their point of view and humanize them...you'd have some good writing. Instead we got whatever that was supposed to be. Anyway, a lot of shoulda-couldas that don't matter now.
I wonder who will replace her as Chief of Security. Hopefully not Micheal but I don't see any other candidates right now.

I have a thing for tsundere girls and Landry seemed a bit like that except she was tough to everyone other than Lorca. She seemed a little gooey with him, both at the end of episode 103 and during the failed combat simulation in 104. What a waste.

Oh man Michael as chief ops officer? Noooo thanks. I guess this is where they will introduce Ash Tyler (although he is only a Lt).

I'd guess Burnham. If Lorca is trying to mould her to his way of thinking then it's the perfect place for her, since most of the idealists seem to be in Science so it gets her away from their influence and under his.

It also puts her in a position to be part of the traditional 'Bridge Crew' setup so she can have more interactions with those characters on a moment-to-moment basis, rather than just seeing Saru in a corridor or being called into Lorca's office.

She's already wearing silver. Her background is xeno anthropology (surely the correct term would be xenology?) and quantum physics. Lorca did assign her a R&D mission but, to your point Paradigm, he also assigned Landry. It's definitely a silver/copper assignment, given it is basically weapons dev.

Wonder what Saru would think of Michael as ops chief.

 Paradigm wrote:
I'd guess Burnham. If Lorca is trying to mould her to his way of thinking then it's the perfect place for her, since most of the idealists seem to be in Science so it gets her away from their influence and under his.

It also puts her in a position to be part of the traditional 'Bridge Crew' setup so she can have more interactions with those characters on a moment-to-moment basis, rather than just seeing Saru in a corridor or being called into Lorca's office.

Burnham is the one right on the line between the two. Everyone thinks she's a tough guy renegade because of the whole mutiny thing but she's just big, old, softy paragon deep down. You can see it on her face when it appears the spore drive may be a torture device for that macroscopic-mite thing. I don't think the show can go on in the direction were Burnham is a win-at-all-costs type of person. I'm pretty sure we're going for a redemption story arc here.

That's why I wouldn't be surprised to see a completely new character as the Chief of Security.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:

That really sums up their relationship.

I was going to give up on this after ep 3 but thought I'd give it one more as the first two weren't really part of it. Managed to fall asleep halfway through ep 4 and have no real motivation to try again so it's lost me. I'll happily stick with the Orville (until it's inevitably cancelled).

Presenting this via CBS All Access really encourages the viewer to think of each episode as make or break, which is terrible. No show has uniformly good episodes. This is especially true in arc-driven TV because some episodes are just gonna be the space between set up and pay off. Episode 104 was definitely one of those.

I've been really enjoying this so far.

I like the way its exploring the distinction between the Federation's ideals and the reality, and how Burnham navigates that.

I posted a few weeks ago in response to frazzled a link saying the second season was already confirmed. Apparently that isn't the case?

https://www.trektoday.com/content/2017/10/discovery-negotiations-denials-and-confirmations/

Caught up with episode 4 and still enjoying it but for the PREQUEL PROBLEM.

It this is 10 years before Kirk and Spock...
Why can shuttles go to warp?
Why does Lorca have a tribble and a Gorn skeleton?
Why does starfleet have holograms for everything including mirrors?
Why are the uniforms different?
Why is everyone using the arrowhead symbol?

Blah blah blah...

I'm just assuming this is a century after Voyager and the problems go away.

OK, also annoyed with the all-Klingon scenes, I mean really? I assume you're already translating the starfleet dialogue since they're certainly not speaking 21st C English so why not the Klingons too?

But over all still pretty good.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:


OK, also annoyed with the all-Klingon scenes, I mean really? I assume you're already translating the starfleet dialogue since they're certainly not speaking 21st C English so why not the Klingons too?

But over all still pretty good.

Hey anyone remember that time fans were sued on the grounds that the Klingon language was copyrighted and the common counter argument was "fans really made it and all of six words are ever uttered on screen anyway"? Eh? Anyone? *puts on tinfoil hat*

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Caught up with episode 4 and still enjoying it but for the PREQUEL PROBLEM.

It this is 10 years before Kirk and Spock...
Why can shuttles go to warp?
Why does Lorca have a tribble and a Gorn skeleton?
Why does starfleet have holograms for everything including mirrors?
Why are the uniforms different?
Why is everyone using the arrowhead symbol?

Blah blah blah...

I'm just assuming this is a century after Voyager and the problems go away.

OK, also annoyed with the all-Klingon scenes, I mean really? I assume you're already translating the starfleet dialogue since they're certainly not speaking 21st C English so why not the Klingons too?

But over all still pretty good.

Because it's in reality a reboot but CBS was too afraid to call it that and instead mislead fans into thinking it's prime timeline to not completely as much of the fanbase before the show even aired? I'd have grudgingly accepted it as a reboot but being obviously lied to on top of the drip feed from behind a paywall airing is too much. I loved me some disco era space cowboy Battlestar Galactica growing up and into adulthood but I loved the 2006ish reboot as well. Of course, that had great plots, asthetics that updated yet honored the original, and good acting which certainly helped... I didn't see any of those in the first 3 episodes of STD.

I prefer it s a reboot.

TBH continuity across decades and decades is exhausting.

 Manchu wrote:
I prefer it s a reboot.

TBH continuity across decades and decades is exhausting.

And I'd have respected that choice and judged the show based on its own merits if they had done that (CBS paywall notwithstanding)... but sadly they didn't. They specifically said it's prime set within only a few years of TOS and yet almost nothing is consistent beyond some simple bridge beeps and boops. I fully expected them to update the effects and style but I hoped it would have been at least asthetically similar in some way to TOS. The good example I like to use for that are the JJverse uniforms that were updated and have their own unique additions yet are distinctly still related to TOS. I'd also have been fine with the tech in JJ if they had just kept the primary grey/yellow/red/blue/green scheme instead of going with the metallic/white/blue. You can update TOS without losing it's unique character IMO. STD didn't bother with any of that and feels only slightly more similar to TOS than it does to Stargate Universe.

Like I said I'm enjoying it, and I'm not going to get hung up on nerd stuff, but I just can't see why Paramount is so obsessed with prequels for Star Trek.

Say it started with '50 years after the return of Voyager' no tech issues, no continuity issues, you alter like a half dozen lines of dialogue, you can use Ferengi and Borg and Dominion and whoever...

What's the point of the earlier time frame other than to piss off the people who are most likely to pay to see this?

Since Shield Of Tomorrow has started airing, I've been back into Star Trek Online and it's been really great. - that starts around 40 years after Voyager and even folds in Trek 09 into its main plot.

Story works great too with references to old Trek, plus that are sequels to older ones but doesn't require you to know the original episodes

There's apparently two (or more) fan film groups making the further adventures of Kirk and Spock, which makes the studio's mania for revisiting (but not really) that era all the more puzzling.


I've seen some of New Voyages and it was definitely OK.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_New_Voyages

Only just learned about Star Trek Continues the other day, will have to check them out when I have time to watch a fan film based on a 50 year old TV show.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_Continues

Since the Axanar lawsuit and subsequent guidelines, both of those big name long running TOS fan series have effectively shut down or are in the process of doing so to comply with the guidelines (which had an exception for shows already in some phase of production). IIRC New Voyages hasn't had an episode in a while and Continues is about to release their last two this month and next (it's a two part fanseries finale).

I'd recommend watching both though as each has good episodes if you're a TOS purist fan.

Yes, the Discovery is ridiculously more advanced than the Enterprise which hasn't even launched yet but I guess that could be chalked up to design choices by Starfleet. (obviously, it's just one of the many problems with always just doing presequels). I don't know what you all mean by "reboot". Do you mean you think all the other shows didn't happen or something? I don't think that's true. In that After Trek show one of the creators was talking about how they do have canon conversations and they want to use Romulans but can't right now because they are not seen physically until TOS. I think the bizarre appearance of the Klingons will be explained by some sci-fi reason eventually.

The answer to both Kid_Kyoto and KamikazeCanuk's questions: here

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
I think the bizarre appearance of the Klingons will be explained by some sci-fi reason eventually.

Didn't Enterprise address that already? Something something genetic engineering, something something Data's creator('s dad)?

And also the vague acknowledgement and dodge of the original vs NextGen appearance in the DS9 time travel episode to Tribbletown?

Yeah, Klingons wanted to genetically engineer Khan-style super men but the upshot was making Klingons look like swarthy humans, TOS-style. That was from ENT. In DS9, it comes up but Word just says Klingons don't like to talk about it.

And new they've been redesigned a 3rd time as hairless spiky monster men.

Which can be fine, my headcanon has always been the TOS guys were Southern Klingons and the Movie/TNG guys were Northern Klingons. Imagine some aliens landing in Kenya and then in Sweden and trying to explain what humans look like. Since the Klingon Empire was 10,000+ years old and spread across thousands of worlds and had genetic engineering some variation is to be expected. It becomes a problem when the current series just makes the rest of the Klingons disappear for the new look.

Fourth time right? There was one in JJ's Wrath of Khan Spock movie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah, REdesigned, got it.

It was okay. Refse really to watch it till it hits another service that has a better value or TV.

Of course who am I. I think Janeway is a terrorist,

 Manchu wrote:
The answer to both Kid_Kyoto and KamikazeCanuk's questions: here

Congratulations, Mr. Manchu. You found what may be the first TVTropes that I don't discount automatically upon realizing someone yet again linked to TVTropes. Well played, sir.



I'm kind of ruining myself as I have yet to watch a single episode and can't control myself enough to stay away from the spoiler tags. Oh well, nobody to blame but myself.

 NenkotaMoon wrote:
I think Janeway is a terrorist,

She kind of was at times XD