Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/7/25/fearless/

No dial spoiler, interestingly. The fang is very much "to the face!" and the other aces - especially Teroch - are interesting. Surprised (but kind of pleased) to see an Elite Pilot talent on the PS3 veterans.

What I like about these Mando-Fighters is that they are relatively cheap in points since they come pre-equipped with engine boost.

Talonbane, Fenn Rau, Old Teroch, and/or Zuckuss + VI in some sort of combination of upgrades seems compelling. Each ace is typically a modest amount cheaper than any other ace.

Tractor beam + Arc-Dodge Tools = "insurance" to get those "range 1 fire arc" requirements done. This just sorta fails to the PS 10 Poe and other aces.

Old Teroch w/ CDP, Fearlessness = +1 Hit, no modification for defense, and 4 Red Dice together. CDP grants survivability in the joust?

Fenn Rau w/ CDP, Fearlessness/Crackshot also has a similar effect.

They might not be the best, but I really like the idea of these things. I am mainly sold on the boost/barrel on the stock unit who has 3 in both attack/defense

Old Teroch's bubble of token-stripping madness is going to make him an interesting option against token-stacking Aces. The area his ability affects is very small (only the range 1 front arc of the enemy ship), but triggering his ability even once is probably enough to screw over a ship like Soontir Fel.

I'm glad CDP is 1 point, I'm sick of seeing 0 point titles. It also makes 5x Zealous Recruits less attractive, since you don't get the damage boost.

This expansion really drives home how under-powered the generic T-65 and B-Wings are these days. (to say nothing of Starvipers, who pay a 5 point premium for an extra shield).

First impressions:

Generics: probably not going to see much use. This is a ship that is just not very good naked (consider how nonexistent naked TIE interceptors are with essentially the same stats) and requires some upgrades to be effective. But once you're piling on upgrades to make the ship good why not pay a bit more for one of the much more powerful unique pilots?

Kad Solus: nice ability, and no "lowest-PS pilot gets no EPT" problem. The threat of a k-turn/t-roll into an advanced torpedo shot is kind of interesting, if expensive, and 180* turns with dice modification are pretty good in general. On the other hand I think this is a ship with the Soontir Fel problem, where the PS 9 pilot is so good that nobody else sees much use no matter how good they are in isolation.

Old Teroch: not impressed, at all. It's an ability that looks incredibly nasty on paper, but PS 7 is a huge drawback here. If you don't take VI to go to PS 9 you won't ever get to use your pilot ability against the high-PS aces it's most effective against, but if you do take VI you don't have the action economy to be effective. I think it's going to be a scary threat, but one that is often resolved by "just kill it first".

Fenn Rau: now here we go, the star of the expansion. PS 9 is really good. No "in their arc" limit on getting to hit them with an extra die is really good. No "primary weapon" limit on the extra die is really good (even if APTs are expensive as hell). I think the only question remaining is the dial. If it has green 90* turns then we have the scum Soontir Fel, dodging arcs to stay alive, exploiting PTL for action economy, and murdering stuff with a 5-dice primary at range 1. If it doesn't have green 90* turns then things become a lot less certain. PTL is a lot harder to use, and without the evade token or stealth device or Palpatine you're a lot more dependent on boost + BR arc dodging to stay alive. But given how hard FFG is pushing PTL in the preview article I suspect it's going to have the green turns PTL requires.

Title: not a literal auto-include like the zero-point "we ran out of space on the card for rules text" titles of the ARC and TIE/sf, but pretty close. Obviously you want to stay out of arc if possible, since not getting shot at all is better than an automatic evade result, but getting that extra evade result when you inevitably land in arc is easily worth one point.

Fearlessness: garbage. Being out of arc entirely with normal red dice is usually better than risking return fire for one extra hit result. If this was part of the title it might be worth taking, especially with the potential for a massive Fenn Rau shot killing a target at PS 9 and making return fire irrelevant. But as an EPT it's garbage. You need your EPT slot to give you action economy so you can use boost/BR to set up those range-1 shots, or at least higher PS (on Old Teroch) to let you have a chance at all. Maybe this might see a bit of use on some kind of cheap generic spam, but what are the odds that cheap generic spam is a viable list?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DanielBeaver wrote:
but triggering his ability even once is probably enough to screw over a ship like Soontir Fel.

The problem is that Soontir Fel is never going to be hit by this ability. If you take PS 7 + action economy Soontir Fel just points his arc somewhere else and kills other stuff, or easily beats you in a 1v1 duel if that's all that's left. If you take PS 9 to even attempt to fight Soontir Fel you don't have the action economy to stay alive and you get shot to death by Soontir Fel's friends.

 Peregrine wrote:

Title: not a literal auto-include like the zero-point "we ran out of space on the card for rules text" titles of the ARC and TIE/sf, but pretty close. Obviously you want to stay out of arc if possible, since not getting shot at all is better than an automatic evade result, but getting that extra evade result when you inevitably land in arc is easily worth one point.
.

I think the titles were also made for this wave's ships because of Boba Fett. Boba Fett gets to simulate crippling systems and what-not when the ships' special effects are on an upgrade card.

I really want Fenn Rau because he is pretty much the more focused Talonbane, though I plan on running both! (Again, Zuckuss with Tractor Beam at Ps 9 is tempting to pull people into the 10 dice death zone when possible)

Does anyone else get the impression that they are trying to get people to go with multiple ships at lower PS than fewer ships with Higher PS?

 Da Kommizzar wrote:
I think the titles were also made for this wave's ships because of Boba Fett. Boba Fett gets to simulate crippling systems and what-not when the ships' special effects are on an upgrade card.

That seems like kind of a niche role, especially for something as anti-fluffy as Boba Fett boarding a single-seat fighter and recovering his "bounty". I think the reality is much more straightforward, it's just a card text issue. A zero-point title is easier than having to find a way to represent "3 dice primary, but only 2 from the rear arc" some other way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 captain bloody fists wrote:
Does anyone else get the impression that they are trying to get people to go with multiple ships at lower PS than fewer ships with Higher PS?

Probably trying, as they have been for a long time. But they don't seem to be succeeding much, the clear best ship in this expansion is still the expensive PS 9 ace.

Crackswarms seem to have succeeded in that regard, somewhat.

Granted you need to be a really good pilot to pull it off, but it can be done. Maybe the 4 PS3 dudes list will be able to hit hard enough to offset the huge risk of hanging out in your enemy's range 1 front arc.

I don't believe it, but it might.

It'll be interesting to see. The key thing we still need to see is, of course, the dial.

I wouldn't necessarily assume that it's going to be a TIE interceptor dial. We know it has speed '3' banks and turns, and that it has a speed '2' talon roll (which is good, especially for a possible torpedo-laden Kad Solus), but that's it at the moment.

As a rule, FFG have tried (not always successfully) not to make one ship just flat out better than another - there's always an argument in favour of one or the other, even if it's a bit of a stretch (like the flechette cannon's stress ability and the shield on a scyk compared to a similar price/PS tie interceptor).

Here, you've got - at the moment - several ships which at first impression are very close matches:

A Zealous Recruit can be directly compared to an Alpha Squadron Pilot with a Hull Upgrade. The Mandalorian costs 1 point less, and it's a critical point that takes you across the 'five ship' price boundary. There is a slight difference (evade becomes target lock and a torpedo tube) but frankly that's in favour of the Zealous Recruit because 90% of the time you'd focus rather than evade anyway.

A Zealous Recruit with a Shield Upgrade has the exact same statline and action bar as a Black Sun Enforcer, for a point less.

Fenn Rau can be closely compared to Talonbane Cobra - the same agility at range 3, the same firepower at range 1, the same pilot skill and boost/barrel roll rather than a shield, for much the same cost.

Note that I'm not suggesting the Fang isn't better than the above - and Alphas and Enforcers aren't exactly a standard to draw for 'competetive', but there will likely be something they do better.

If I had to guess, I'd guess slow moves. Scum & Villainy ships have, historically been on the slower side. The Khiraxz is about the only ship lacking a speed '1' straight to also lack a speed '5' straight. The Starviper, Scyk, Khiraxz and Punishing One all lack the ability to do speed '3' turns.

With the Fang definitely having speed 3 turns, and boost, expect to see the reverse.

It wouldn't surprise me to see the Fang lack the speed '1' turn - maybe even any speed 1 moves at all. Given that it's supposed to do fast 'head to head' slashing attacks (also I guess why it lacks evade - dodging is apparently not Mandalorian enough), lacking the abilty to knife fight and instead being a bit defender-ish might be interesting - with the greens being at speed 2 & 3 rather than speed 1 & 2.

locarno24 wrote:
I wouldn't necessarily assume that it's going to be a TIE interceptor dial.

We can't assume it, but we can make a pretty good guess. FFG is pushing PTL really hard in that article, and everyone knows that green 90* turns are really important for a PTL ship. It won't literally be an interceptor dial (we already know it has the t-rolls that an interceptor doesn't), but in all relevant attributes it's probably not going to be off by much.

A Zealous Recruit can be directly compared to an Alpha Squadron Pilot with a Hull Upgrade. The Mandalorian costs 1 point less, and it's a critical point that takes you across the 'five ship' price boundary. There is a slight difference (evade becomes target lock and a torpedo tube) but frankly that's in favour of the Zealous Recruit because 90% of the time you'd focus rather than evade anyway.

This isn't a very relevant comparison. Besides the fact that alpha interceptors are a ship that is almost never used (so it's ok for a new ship to be a bit more powerful) they're ships from two different factions. The new ship can't make the TIE interceptor obsolete because it can't be taken in imperial lists.

Also, when you look at the TIE interceptors that matter (IOW, the ones that can use PTL) you see some major differences. Interceptors can get stealth device and autothrusters at the same time, and have the ability to stack focus + evade for defense. That's worth way more than +1 hull HP. In a competition between Soontir Fel and Fenn Rau there's no obvious correct choice, they both have their strengths and weaknesses. And, if anything, Fel still has the advantage.

A Zealous Recruit with a Shield Upgrade has the exact same statline and action bar as a Black Sun Enforcer, for a point less.

Which is fine. We know that the Starviper is garbage, and FFG knows that the Starviper is garbage. I don't think FFG is going to consider themselves bound by any obligation to avoid making a strictly better Starviper. If it makes sense they'll do it, and release a Starviper buff someday to make up for it.

Fenn Rau can be closely compared to Talonbane Cobra - the same agility at range 3, the same firepower at range 1, the same pilot skill and boost/barrel roll rather than a shield, for much the same cost.

This really doesn't say anything about the dial because the k-thing has a dial that is mediocre at best. In fact, this pretty well disproves the idea that FFG is reluctant to make a ship obsolete and will nerf the new ship to prevent that from happening. It already happened pretty much no matter what the new ship's dial is. The k-thing almost certainly now exists only so you can get a copy of crack shot.

It wouldn't surprise me to see the Fang lack the speed '1' turn - maybe even any speed 1 moves at all.

*shrug*

Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't matter much either way. Soontir Fel gets by just fine without any 1-speed maneuvers, Fenn Rau can do the same.

Looks passable, and it'll be nice as a mostly Scum player to have a small base Ace

Soontir Fel gets by just fine without any 1-speed maneuvers, Fenn Rau can do the same.

Agreed.

An interceptor-esque fighter needs a green hard turn if it's going to be able to abuse push the limit (or I guess any other stress generating talent*). But if the green hard turn is at speed 3, it means you do have to allow for taking quite a bit of space to come about - certainly in a match against (for the sake of example) the Inquisitor, who'll be doing much the same moves but on a speed '1' circle.

It's a long way from making the Fang 'bad' - it's just something to note. To be honest, the big weakness compared to the Interceptor (so far as it has one) is the lack of the Evade action.


* You might be able to come up with a niche case for opportunist if you've got old Taroch somewhere else in the squad but I really doubt it's going to do much good.

Interesting that there doesn't seem to be a modification slot... so no autothrusters for these ships

What? There hasn't ever really been a modification slot printed on cards, it's just....there. Every ship has one modification slot.

I'm excited to actually have a small-based ace for Scum. I've tried and tried to get Talonbane to work but he just doesn't, not in my meta. Scum Soontir (or as close as they'll get to it) looks like a lot of fun. The other pilots are generally pretty interesting too. Probably going to pick up at least two if this one.

Modifications are universal, all ships can take them so there's no slot printed on the cards.

Dang, this almost makes me want to pick up some Scum ships just to run this haha.

EdSnark wrote:
What? There hasn't ever really been a modification slot printed on cards, it's just....there. Every ship has one modification slot.

Clearly I haven't been looking at my cards very much