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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 02:26:00
Subject: Re:Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Traditio wrote:General Annoyance wrote:Not one of them, but still really, really confused to what the whole point of this exercise is
For me personally, it's completely useless for all practical purposes.
so just trolling ?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 02:28:10
Subject: Re:Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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kambien wrote: Traditio wrote:General Annoyance wrote:Not one of them, but still really, really confused to what the whole point of this exercise is
For me personally, it's completely useless for all practical purposes.
so just trolling ?
No.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 02:28:59
Subject: Re:Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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kambien wrote: Traditio wrote:General Annoyance wrote:Not one of them, but still really, really confused to what the whole point of this exercise is
For me personally, it's completely useless for all practical purposes.
so just trolling ?
Not trolling, but of questionable value in the long run
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G.A - Should've called myself Ghost Ark
Makeup Whiskers? This is War Paint! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 02:30:28
Subject: Re:Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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General Annoyance wrote:kambien wrote: Traditio wrote:General Annoyance wrote:Not one of them, but still really, really confused to what the whole point of this exercise is
For me personally, it's completely useless for all practical purposes.
so just trolling ?
Not trolling, but of questionable value in the long run
Y'know, for all the trolling of which I'm being accused in this thread, there's sure a whole lot of trolling going on...by people who aren't myself.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 02:42:22
Subject: Re:Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Traditio wrote:
Y'know, for all the trolling of which I'm being accused in this thread, there's sure a whole lot of trolling going on...by people who aren't myself.
Welcome to DakkaDakka, the community wide Mexican standoff of people accusing eachother of being trolls
But hey, at least we aren't on Reddit
Something of value though; why not simply consider removing certain powers and stats a Riptide has as house rules if they are of bother to you? Say, for instance, decreasing the potency of nova charging, or increasing the risk of nova charging, decreasing wounds and toughness and whatnot. Hell turn it into a walker type like it should have been in the first place; I'd be up for fighting a 12 all round jet pack walker
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G.A - Should've called myself Ghost Ark
Makeup Whiskers? This is War Paint! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 02:57:13
Subject: Re:Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Crushing Black Templar Crusader Pilot
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Traditio wrote:IllumiNini wrote:I'm not saying that it's illegitimate, but instead saying that trying to appropriately cost the Riptide as it currently stands is - to my mind - the inferior option. Why should you appropriately cost something when you can truly balance it? 1. At this point, you are engaging in a thread derail. The thread's not about balancing the riptide. There's another thread devoted to that. This thread is about what the current riptide is actually worth. I'm not derailing the thread. I'm simply saying that trying to appropriately cost the Riptide is an inferior method when you consider the fact that balancing the unit as a whole is a better option. That's not derailing the thread, that's addressing the point in question. If I were to attempt to derail the thread, I'd be going into specifics as to how exactly I'd go about balancing the Riptide (which I'm not going to do). Yes, they are not mutually exclusive, but why would you settle for simply applying an appropriate cost when you can balance it as well? Traditio wrote:If we're looking at appropriately costing something, comparing it to a single unit or a small sub-set of units is still inappropriate as a whole. You need to be able to look at the effectiveness of the unit compare with the game as a whole as well as comparing it to 'similar' units. So you're still missing a lot of data. Having a 396-Point Wraithknight isn't going to cut it. I disagree. Balance is relative. Points costs are a numerical standard of comparison. Yes, to a extent: Balance is Relative. But to balance any set of units, you need a starting point for each unit that is independent of all others. For example, you can't balance a Riptide against a Wraithknight if neither of them have a points cost (which is calculated independent of each other) to begin with. Now, given my stance on balancing the Riptide as well as the fact that the Wraithknight doesn't actually cost 395 Points, this line of inquiry is pointless (at least for me). Traditio wrote:Not that I'm claiming one way or the other in terms of reporting you (because whether or not I have really doesn't matter), why are you trying to shame people for this? It has generally been my experience that if people report others for any reason (whether it be this forum or anything else), they genuinely believe that something is not right and something should be done (regardless of whether or not something is actually done about it); and there is no shame in that. You're doing the exact same thing. You don't like it when people are impolite to you, troll you, spam and derail your threads? Then maybe you shouldn't be doing the exact same thing to other people. Just pointing that out. -- I'm not trying to derail your thread. I have offered up a relevant opinion on the topic as well as made additional comments on other content within the thread. -- I'm not trying to troll or spam your thread. Don't believe me? Not my fault and not my problem. -- You think I'm being impolite? Feel free to send me a polite PM highlighting exactly what you thought was impolite along with a request to stop. Feel this is not enough? Feel free to report me to a moderator and/or add me to your ignore list. -- This has nothing to do with you saying "Shame on You" to all those who have reported you and this thread.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/07/29 03:02:50
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 03:12:16
Subject: Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
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Assuming perfect balance, the riptide should cost what it does now, because I'm assuming that all other units are perfectly balanced with the Riptide as the baseline.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 03:18:35
Subject: Re:Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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IllumiNini wrote:I'm not derailing the thread. I'm simply saying that trying to appropriately cost the Riptide is an inferior method when you consider the fact that balancing the unit as a whole is a better option. As I said, you want a different thread. Jade_Angel already has a thread on that. Yes, to a extent: Balance is Relative. But to balance any set of units, you need a starting point for each unit that is independent of all others. All that you need is: 1. An agreed upon ratio between two units. 2. An agreed upon points cost for one of the two. This is why it's so easy for various threads like this to go off the rails, and why it's so easy for Peregrine to troll me and say things like: "Maybe the Landraider should be cheaper and the riptide should stay the same!" "Maybe your opponents play balanced lists, and your army is under powered!" It's all relative. The thing to do is to take a given unit (whether arbitrarily taken or not), assign it a value and then start comparing other things in relationship to it. It's like inches. when you think about it, the decision of whether to use the centimeter or the inch as a measure of minute distances is completely arbitrary. All that's important is that you pick a unit and you assign it a value. Once you have your unit, you can start measuring other things. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether the wraithknight costs 100 points or 400 points, just so long as everything else stands in a balanced proportion or relationship to it. If a wraithknight costs 400 points, then a tactical marine needs to cost 14 and a riptide needs to cost roughly 300. If a wraithknight costs 100 points, then a tactical marine needs to cost 3.5 ppm and a riptide needs to cost 74. It's not the numbers that are important; it's the proportions. For example, you can't balance a Riptide against a Wraithknight if neither of them have a points cost (which is calculated independent of each other) to begin with. We already have a "known" fair points cost for the wraithknight. The commonly agreed upon "fair" points cost is 395 or higher. Even Galef has admitted that the fair points cost for a Wraithknight is roughly 400...he just doesn't want to pay the fair points cost. -- I'm not trying to derail your thread. I have offered up a relevant opinion on the topic as well as made additional comments on other content within the thread. -- I'm not trying to troll or spam your thread. Don't believe me? Not my fault and not my problem. -- You think I'm being impolite? Feel free to send me a polite PM highlighting exactly what you thought was impolite along with a request to stop. Feel this is not enough? Feel free to report me to a moderator and/or add me to your ignore list. -- This has nothing to do with you saying "Shame on You" to all those who have reported you and this thread. Review the precise posting to which I was responding. Nuff said about that. [/derail] Automatically Appended Next Post: Trasvi wrote:Assuming perfect balance, the riptide should cost what it does now, because I'm assuming that all other units are perfectly balanced with the Riptide as the baseline. I already specified in the OP that I'm assuming a 395 point wraithknight.
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This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2016/07/29 03:25:14
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 03:30:45
Subject: Re:Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
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Traditio wrote:
Trasvi wrote:Assuming perfect balance, the riptide should cost what it does now, because I'm assuming that all other units are perfectly balanced with the Riptide as the baseline.
I already specified in the OP that I'm assuming a 395 point wraithknight.
What are we supposed to do with that information?
You can't balance rock knowing only scissors.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 03:32:40
Subject: Re:Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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Trasvi wrote:What are we supposed to do with that information?
You can't balance rock knowing only scissors.
Are the riptide and wraithknight sufficiently comparable that if you know the points cost of the one, you can reason to what the other is worth based on how good it is in comparison to that other?
I say "yes."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 03:36:54
Subject: Re:Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Auspicious Daemonic Herald
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Traditio wrote:Trasvi wrote:What are we supposed to do with that information?
You can't balance rock knowing only scissors.
Are the riptide and wraithknight sufficiently comparable that if you know the points cost of the one, you can reason to what the other is worth based on how good it is in comparison to that other?
I say "yes."
And you are wrong
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 03:38:51
Subject: Re:Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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CrownAxe wrote:And you are wrong
Then you aren't disagreeing just with me. You're disagreeing with Black Sails. He's the one who initially suggested it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 03:40:25
Subject: Re:Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Auspicious Daemonic Herald
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Traditio wrote:CrownAxe wrote:And you are wrong
Then you aren't disagreeing just with me. You're disagreeing with Black Sails. He's the one who initially suggested it.
And? Why does it matter that i disagree with more people then just you.
Not everyone that disagrees with you is a troll Tradito.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 03:40:37
Subject: Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot
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"Assuming all point costs are invalidated, what should Riptides cost?"
Is this seriously a question?
They should cost whatever is fair in the magical undefined fairyland of your 40k reprice.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/29 03:43:17
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 03:47:37
Subject: Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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raverrn wrote:"Assuming all point costs are invalidated, what should Riptides cost?" Is this seriously a question? No, it isn't. You literally just made it up out of thin air and then asked if it's seriously a question. I just witnessed it. Review the thread. Up until this page, nobody asked the question, and then, out of the blue, you came in and asked it, presumably out of thin air. They should cost whatever is fair in the magical undefined fairyland of your 40k reprice. Except, it's not undefined. I've already specified a 395 point wraithknight. I'll further assume a 250 point land raider and a 14 ppm tactical marine. I'll even be daring and assume 20 ppm for lascannon upgrades to tactical and devastator marines. Automatically Appended Next Post: CrownAxe wrote:And? Why does it matter that i disagree with more people then just you. Not everyone that disagrees with you is a troll Tradito. Since you're posting in the thread, mind answering the question of the thread? What should a riptide cost, assuming the entire game were balanced, under the points cost assumptions that I've made? Once you've given that number, please explain how you came up with it.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/07/29 03:50:11
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 03:50:37
Subject: Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot
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Traditio wrote:
No, it isn't. You literally just made it up out of thin air and then asked if it's seriously a question.
I just witnessed it. Review the thread. Up until this page, nobody asked the question, and then, out of the blue, you came in and asked it, presumably out of thin air.
"2. Therefore, in light of 2, my assumption for this thread is that every other unit in the game has been appropriately re-priced/rebalanced. I am assuming a 395 point wraithknight. I am assuming that Imperial Knights remain basically the same. I am assuming that scatter bikes have been nerfed and re-priced. I am assuming that grav has been redone. I am assuming chaos space marines with legion tactics. I'm assuming more expensive drop pods...."
Your thread, man.
Except, it's not undefined. I've already specified a 395 point wraithknight. I'll further assume a 250 point land raider and a 14 ppm tactical marine.
I'll even be daring and assume 20 ppm for lascannon upgrades to tactical and devastator marines.
That's three out of 200+ units and 500+ upgrades.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 03:52:56
Subject: Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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raverrn wrote:That's three out of 200+ units and 500+ upgrades.
Are a riptide and a wraithknight sufficiently comparable to each other?
What about a riptide and an Imperial Knight?
If the answer to both is "no," then please point to something that the vast majority of people (70% or more) agree is appropriately costed and does not have OP rules, which you think is comparable to a riptide.
If you can't, then maybe the riptide doesn't belong in the game.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/29 03:53:26
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 03:56:19
Subject: Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot
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Traditio wrote:raverrn wrote:That's three out of 200+ units and 500+ upgrades.
Are a riptide and a wraithknight sufficiently comparable to each other?
What about a riptide and an Imperial Knight?
If the answer to both is "no," then please point to something that the vast majority of people (70% or more) agree is appropriately costed and does not have OP rules, which you think is comparable to a riptide.
If you can't, then maybe the riptide doesn't belong in the game.
You said every other model in the game is changed. What the Riptide's price is is absolutely irrelevant under those circumstances.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 03:56:44
Subject: Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Auspicious Daemonic Herald
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Traditio wrote: CrownAxe wrote:And? Why does it matter that i disagree with more people then just you. Not everyone that disagrees with you is a troll Tradito. Since you're posting in the thread, mind answering the question of the thread? What should a riptide cost, assuming the entire game were balanced, under the points cost assumptions that I've made? Once you've given that number, please explain how you came up with it.
Assuming the whole game is balanced is pointless because you can be balanced and different point costs on the same unit i voted 250 but as far as im concerned thats because FNP should be a more expensive upgrade for the riptide, the Ion Accelerator isn't actually that good for 220 points
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/29 03:58:11
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 04:00:57
Subject: Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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raverrn wrote:You said every other model in the game is changed. What the Riptide's price is is absolutely irrelevant under those circumstances.
I didn't say that every other model in the game is changed. Reread the bit you quoted. You won't find me actually saying that.
I further specified a 395 point wraithknight and unchanged imperial knights.
Once again, I ask:
Is a riptide sufficiently comparable to either one of those?
If it is not, then point to something which is, which is not considered to be imbalanced by the vast majority of people. Automatically Appended Next Post: CrownAxe wrote:i voted 250 but as far as im concerned thats because FNP should be a more expensive upgrade for the riptide, the Ion Accelerator isn't actually that good for 220 points
Riptide (as described) = landraider.
Why?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/29 04:01:40
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 04:03:00
Subject: Re:Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
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Traditio wrote:Trasvi wrote:What are we supposed to do with that information?
You can't balance rock knowing only scissors.
Are the riptide and wraithknight sufficiently comparable that if you know the points cost of the one, you can reason to what the other is worth based on how good it is in comparison to that other?
I say "yes."
How good it is at what? What targets exist in the game at what price points? What counters exist in the game at what price points?
Let's say for the sake of argument that, in terms of capabilities, the wraith knight is strictly superior to a riptide. It does everything a riptide does, often better, and it does other things as well. I think that's close enough to true.
You can't price those extra capabilities without knowing other things. How good is stomp? How good is resistance to poison or Instant death? How necessary is Strength D? How likely is it for the riptide to get marker light support or the wraith knight to get blessings? Which leads to how durable / costly are marker light sources?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 04:04:31
Subject: Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Auspicious Daemonic Herald
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Traditio wrote:raverrn wrote:You said every other model in the game is changed. What the Riptide's price is is absolutely irrelevant under those circumstances.
I didn't say that every other model in the game is changed. Reread the bit you quoted. You won't find me actually saying that.
I further specified a 395 point wraithknight and unchanged imperial knights.
Once again, I ask:
Is a riptide sufficiently comparable to either one of those?
If it is not, then point to something which is, which is not considered to be imbalanced by the vast majority of people.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CrownAxe wrote:i voted 250 but as far as im concerned thats because FNP should be a more expensive upgrade for the riptide, the Ion Accelerator isn't actually that good for 220 points
Riptide (as described) = landraider.
Why?
Well they aren't equal because the Land raider isn't a balanced unit, its an underpowered unit and should cost less then 250
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 04:04:47
Subject: Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot
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Traditio wrote: I didn't say that every other model in the game is changed. Traditio wrote:2. Therefore, in light of 2, my assumption for this thread is that every other unit in the game has been appropriately re-priced/rebalanced. I am assuming a 395 point wraithknight. I am assuming that Imperial Knights remain basically the same. I am assuming that scatter bikes have been nerfed and re-priced. I am assuming that grav has been redone. I am assuming chaos space marines with legion tactics. I'm assuming more expensive drop pods.
Emphasis mine, words yours.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/29 04:05:05
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 04:06:56
Subject: Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Crushing Black Templar Crusader Pilot
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Traditio wrote:raverrn wrote:You said every other model in the game is changed. What the Riptide's price is is absolutely irrelevant under those circumstances. I didn't say that every other model in the game is changed. ...You won't find me actually saying that. You might not have said it explicitly, but you effectively said it. How else do you re-price and re-balance an entire gaming system's worth of units, upgrades, Special Rules, etc. without changing them? Traditio wrote:CrownAxe wrote:i voted 250 but as far as im concerned thats because FNP should be a more expensive upgrade for the riptide, the Ion Accelerator isn't actually that good for 220 points Riptide (as described) = landraider. Why? You might want to be a little better with your words and specificity. That's only a points equality. Saying Riptide (As Described) = Landraider implies a lot more than you might want it to. Plus, as CrownAxe said, "...Land raider isn't a balanced unit, its an underpowered unit and should cost less then 250".
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/29 04:07:46
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 04:07:59
Subject: Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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CrownAxe wrote:Well they aren't equal because the Land raider isn't a balanced unit, its an underpowered unit and should cost less then 250
The land raider is "underpowered" in comparison to OP units like the wraithknight, riptide, etc.
If those things were nerfed, the land raider would be fine.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
raverrn wrote: Traditio wrote:2. Therefore, in light of 2, my assumption for this thread is that every other unit in the game has been appropriately re-priced/rebalanced. I am assuming a 395 point wraithknight. I am assuming that Imperial Knights remain basically the same. I am assuming that scatter bikes have been nerfed and re-priced. I am assuming that grav has been redone. I am assuming chaos space marines with legion tactics. I'm assuming more expensive drop pods.
Emphasis mine, words yours.
I further specified that IKs would basically remain the same.
Nonetheless, I will admit that I could have picked my words better.
At any rate, I extend my challenge one final time. If you continue this little quibble, I'll simply ignore you from now on.
Are IKs and wraithknights comparable?
If they are not, then point to something (which is not overpowered or underpriced) which is.
If you want to engage in the discussion, then engage in the discussion.
If you don't actually want to engage in the discussion, and are only here to disparage the legitimacy of the discussion in the first place, then perhaps this isn't the thread for you.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/07/29 04:12:45
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 04:13:38
Subject: Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Auspicious Daemonic Herald
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Traditio wrote:CrownAxe wrote:Well they aren't equal because the Land raider isn't a balanced unit, its an underpowered unit and should cost less then 250
The land raider is "underpowered" in comparison to OP units like the wraithknight, riptide, etc.
If those things were nerfed, the land raider would be fine.
No, the Land Raider is bad compared to everything. It has terrible shooting for the price, its not actually durable because the vehicle rules is just a list of drawbacks and nerfs, and taking it as a transport is adding 250 points to the cost of what ever unit you put inside of it.
The Land Raider was bad before Riptides and Wraithknights even existed
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 04:16:27
Subject: Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
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Traditio wrote:
I further specified a 395 point wraithknight and unchanged imperial knights.
Once again, I ask:
Is a riptide sufficiently comparable to either one of those?
If it is not, then point to something which is, which is not considered to be imbalanced by the vast majority of people.
No, a riptide is not comparable to either of those. It lacks key defining features: immunity to small arms fire, immunity to instant death, D weapons, stomps, movement speed, fearless.
A riptide would be better compared to a squad of Crisis suits or an Ion Hammerhead. Maybe a Dakkafex or Leman Russ.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 04:18:57
Subject: Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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CrownAxe wrote:No, the Land Raider is bad compared to everything. It has terrible shooting for the price, its not actually durable because the vehicle rules is just a list of drawbacks and nerfs, and taking it as a transport is adding 250 points to the cost of what ever unit you put inside of it.
It's not durable compared to what? In relationship to what weapons?
It's immune to all S7 and inferior shooting.
S8 glances it on 6s.
S9 glances it on 5s.
It would take, on average, 18 lascannon shots at BS4 to glance it to death. Even if you take into account the possibility that a lascannon could one shot it:
2/3 X 1/3 = 2/9 chance of rolling a 5 or 6 to hit
A lascannon fired at BS 4 has a 1/9 chance of dealing a penetrating hit to a landraider. Assuming it deals that penetrating hit, it has a 1/6 chance of causing an Explodes! result.
1/9 X 1/6 = 1/54. It would take 54 lascannon shots, on average, to one-shot a landraider.
Yes, grav cannons can make short work of landraiders, but grav is commonly admitted to be a stupid, OP rule.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/07/29 04:21:30
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 04:24:41
Subject: Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot
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Traditio, if you don't see how a model with D-strength weapons, Stomp attacks and the speed to employ them should cost more than a Riptide, maybe pricing units just isn't your thing?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/07/29 04:26:23
Subject: Assuming Ideal Balance, How Much Should Riptides, Assuming FNP and IA, Cost?
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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raverrn wrote:Traditio, if you don't see how a model with D-strength weapons, Stomp attacks and the speed to employ them should cost more than a Riptide, maybe pricing units just isn't your thing?
Have you actually been reading my posts? All of your posts in this thread indicate either an inability or unwillingness to comprehend the words that I've typed.
Nowhere in this thread have I suggested that a riptide should be of equal or greater points cost in comparison to a wraithknight.
If you're referring to my suggesting that the cheapest IK should be points equivalent to a riptide, then:
1. I'll note that the shooty IKs would still be more expensive
and
2. I've later re-evaluated my assessment of what a riptide should cost.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/29 04:27:25
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