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Oh, I guess I missed that. Nice work on the battlescribe update!

The alpha is working ,,so far ..Now on to some odds and ends I have noticed ..Missing from big Guns artillery is Big Lobba (+10 Points) and Missing From Uge guns is Suppa Lobba..(+?? points) ...

Not certain why eavy shoota is needed as it is just a slightly shorter ranged suppa shoota ..but ehh..

morfydd wrote:
The alpha is working ,,so far ..Now on to some odds and ends I have noticed ..Missing from big Guns artillery is Big Lobba (+10 Points) and Missing From Uge guns is Suppa Lobba..(+?? points) ...

The Supa-Lobba isn't actually in COR right now - something to change?

True both of those are not in as artillery in COR ..was noting they are fluffy enough to be .. The Orks have more than enough options ..and then to the 7th group in this codex ..Grot rebels..
It looks like they are nicely represented as well ..just needs a touch of spit and polish ..(almost looks like you have enough for a codex + 7 supplements here)
Every flavor of orks can be built ..now ..

Meganobz may need more weapon options ..to better fit the fluff..(BIg Shootas etc) not just the wimpy gunz..

Changelist on the front page has been updated, hopefully to morfydd's liking.

Actually it is to my liking ..and unexpected that it would happen this quickly ..

The work looks great so far ..

Same with the Battlescribe alpha ...
will come back to this in a couple weeks ..some locals have agreed to run a few games to see how each group works on the table will get back to you with those results (might be a couple weeks)

morfydd wrote:
Actually it is to my liking ..and unexpected that it would happen this quickly ..

The work looks great so far ..

Same with the Battlescribe alpha ...
will come back to this in a couple weeks ..some locals have agreed to run a few games to see how each group works on the table will get back to you with those results (might be a couple weeks)

Looking forward to hearing about them!

Nice work! Subbed and Exalted

Okay Having played a few games now ..I have found that some of the sub codicies do not work so hot ..and the choices while nice get a bit excessive..Next costs ..almost all units a bit to pricey for what they bring ..(actaully not to bad a problem just makes it hard to deal with the OP armies)
--------------------------------Rebel Grotz----------------------------------
Runtbot ..40 points for nothing but a shiny tin dead useless pile of scrap..

Troops....Needs a second Troop choice just Runts is painfull..
Hq committe ..Cost is good ..think need to drop dakkaguns for Shootas at 2 points each as an upgrade..(better balance)

Elites...
Stick to assault weapons upgrades..(Big Shootas Rokkits..Eavy shoota ..KMB, Burna etc..leave the Lobba and the Grotzooka to the heavy slot in artillery)

Need more than the silly whirly bird as dedicated transport..

Heavy ..Grot Megatank, Killa Kan..Drop cost a tad or allow upgrade to revolutionary) .. and artillery .(.Almost to many artillery choices..)

Fast .. Grot tanks (the base tank with a Big shoota needs to be 25 points)
----------------------Will go over some of the other subcodicies later

morfydd wrote:
Okay Having played a few games now ..I have found that some of the sub codicies do not work so hot ..and the choices while nice get a bit excessive..Next costs ..almost all units a bit to pricey for what they bring ..(actaully not to bad a problem just makes it hard to deal with the OP armies)

I do admit to being conservative with costs, though often that's still better than official pts costs...

Runtbot ..40 points for nothing but a shiny tin dead useless pile of scrap..

Could you elaborate?

Troops....Needs a second Troop choice just Runts is painfull..

Technically there are three, just all under the heading of Runts: Gretchin, Snotling 'Ords and Squigs (which could also be part of a Feral Orks list). I'm not planning to add any more datasheets, though. Perhaps more weapon options for the Gretchin is the way to go?

Hq committe ..Cost is good ..think need to drop dakkaguns for Shootas at 2 points each as an upgrade..(better balance)

I gave the Eavys' Dakkaguns to give the Kommittee some actual punch, since they're more of a support H.Q. and only have S3 Pistols and a single Slugga otherwise. :(

Elites...
Stick to assault weapons upgrades..(Big Shootas Rokkits..Eavy shoota ..KMB, Burna etc..leave the Lobba and the Grotzooka to the heavy slot in artillery)

The Eavy Teem is, as the name might suggest, an analogue to the AM Heavy Weapons teams, which is why the Eavy Teem has access to such weapons.

Need more than the silly whirly bird as dedicated transport..

Again, could you elaborate?

Heavy ..Grot Megatank, Killa Kan..Drop cost a tad or allow upgrade to revolutionary) .. and artillery .(.Almost to many artillery choices..)

Not sure where you're going with this. The Mega-Tank doesn't need a Revolushunaree, and the Kanz and Artillery units already have one.

Fast .. Grot tanks (the base tank with a Big shoota needs to be 25 points)

Really? I thought I'd made them cheap enough already, since they're already cheaper than the official Dread Mob version and aren't damaged by a bad movement roll anymore.



Thanks for getting back in touch, and looking forward to more feedback!

Runt Bot ..No shooty weapon ..a 4+ save one wound low WS for its CC weapon ..and T-3 Dies to bolter fire kinda waste for 40 points (cost of a Meganob) ...tried it and saw that I would never take one after the first try..
Missed that lack of damage on a bad movement roll ...
Mabey more weapon options for a rebel grot army (ie needs the revolutionary instead of the Runtherd) .(perhaps sluggas for +1 point and Shootas for +2 ) .need to clarify that the revolutionary is instead of the runtherd ..
..........................................................
Propa Mob ..this one is painfull to field but needs to stay..I actually had Fun running two Proppa Mobs..
..........................................................................
Killa Kans need a base cost redux or the loss of cowardly grotz as that is only a new thing not roignal nor fluffy once they are in the Kan they like to kill orks at times..









Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nobz..and all the sub variants...Gotta be a way to streamline this ...Mabey have certain types unlocked based on Warboss Type...I would almost like to see DakkaGunz left to Bikers/Calvary as the default..Monstrous Critters/Squiggoth and Big Squigoth ..all have to low a WS to be effective..I know forgeworld did that but charged for the higher skill ...

Rebel Grotz only have the whilry bird as a dedicated transport option no lugga or big lugga ..( ie Trukk/Bigtrakk/Wagon options as dedicated) ...

morfydd wrote:
Runt Bot ..No shooty weapon ..a 4+ save one wound low WS for its CC weapon ..and T-3 Dies to bolter fire kinda waste for 40 points (cost of a Meganob) ...tried it and saw that I would never take one after the first try..

T4 actually, but majority Toughness still makes that 2. Your analysis tells me you missed the Naff Force Field - description at the bottom of pg117.

Mabey more weapon options for a rebel grot army (ie needs the revolutionary instead of the Runtherd) .(perhaps sluggas for +1 point and Shootas for +2 ) .need to clarify that the revolutionary is instead of the runtherd ..

The Grot Rally special rule states that Yoofless Runts units no longer need Runtherds but do need a Revolushunaree - the rule is found on the Grot Kommittee and Da Red Gobbo, and you'll be taking at least one of those in a Rebel Grot build.

Killa Kans need a base cost redux or the loss of cowardly grotz as that is only a new thing not roignal nor fluffy once they are in the Kan they like to kill orks at times..

Actually the Kanz entry in the 4th Ed dex has an entire paragraph dedicated to the idea.
The impact of Cowardly Grots (or Scardy-Grotz in COR) is dramatically reduced - the roll is only failed on a 1, and the rule is ignored if the unit a) contains a Revolushunaree, or b) is wihin 6" of any Walker or Super-heavy Walker with the Waaagh! special rule (and COR is swimming in those!).

Nobz..and all the sub variants...Gotta be a way to streamline this...

Without splitting them all in fourteen seperate units, I think it's as streamlined as it can be... :(

Monstrous Critters/Squiggoth and Big Squigoth ..all have to low a WS to be effective..

This is deliberate in the case of the Runna Squiggoth (few dedicated transports can fight in CC as well), but I guess I can give +1WS to it and the Squiggoth 'Urd.

Sneeky Gitz seems unnecessary. Just give Move Through Cover normally, instead of naming it something else. (Oh, it has more rules associated with it. Disregard this.)

T6 seems a bit high for a 110 point HQ. Then again, Destroyer Lords... I dunno. It feels like too much to me.

Okay, figured out why that seems too much! You can give them a bike for T7. The only normally T7 Warlord is a GUO, which is SLOW. A Warboss on bike? Is not.

ML 3 on the Weirdboy should be 25 points, like everyone else who pays for Mastery Levels.

I would give the Runtbot an option for 3+ armour, so it can tank properly.

Holy behjeezums! The Proppa Mob... That's ridiculous. I love it.

Are saves and FNP allowed against Bodged?

Also, combine Dok's Surprize with an Ork Warlord and Bike, and you can get a T8 Warlord. Just saying.

The Wurr Dread has a 5+ Invuln save twice. Once from Ramshackle Monster, once from Waagh! Konduit.

And that's where I end for today. Criminy jiminies, you did a lot of work.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Sneeky Gitz seems unnecessary. Just give Move Through Cover normally, instead of naming it something else. (Oh, it has more rules associated with it. Disregard this.)

Yeah, Sneeky Gitz is for synergy purposes - certain Warlord Traits and special rules affect 'models with the Sneeky Gitz special rule'. Plus, it was pointed out to me that Artillery units should not get Move Through Cover.

T6 seems a bit high for a 110 point HQ. Then again, Destroyer Lords... I dunno. It feels like too much to me.
Okay, figured out why that seems too much! You can give them a bike for T7. The only normally T7 Warlord is a GUO, which is SLOW. A Warboss on bike? Is not.

It gets worse with the Deffkopta, or the right items from Da Loota'z Stokkpile.
Good point though, will give thought to a cost increase.

ML 3 on the Weirdboy should be 25 points, like everyone else who pays for Mastery Levels.

Makes sense.

I would give the Runtbot an option for 3+ armour, so it can tank properly.

Could do, though the usual reason to take a Runtbot is the Naff Force Field.

Are saves and FNP allowed against Bodged?

Yep! If any of my rules don't specifically say you can't take saves, you can.

Also, combine Dok's Surprize with an Ork Warlord and Bike, and you can get a T8 Warlord. Just saying.

Not true. Dok'z Surprize only affects models with the Dok'z Surprize special rule, which doesn't confer onto attached characters.

The Wurr Dread has a 5+ Invuln save twice. Once from Ramshackle Monster, once from Waagh! Konduit.

Originally this was another synergy thing, but I realise that's no longer the case. Will fix in the next release.

And that's where I end for today. Criminy jiminies, you did a lot of work.

Yarp. It's been literally years put into COR, and doubtless there's more ahead. Cheers for your input.

Can you benefit from a Bosspole if the model carrying it is the only one left in the combat?

 Oestergaard wrote:
Can you benefit from a Bosspole if the model carrying it is the only one left in the combat?

While not the intent, that is the way the rule reads right now. Will fix.

So no.

Thanks

Also, are the Evil Suns "Betta Grip" upgrade supposed to be a re-roll against difficult or dangerous terrain? It says difficult terrain right now, but bikers and the likes count difficult terrain as dangerous terrain instead.. Just a heads up, in case it was the intent of the upgrade

By the way: I really like this codex! It has made me want to play my orks again Thanks you!

 Oestergaard wrote:
Also, are the Evil Suns "Betta Grip" upgrade supposed to be a re-roll against difficult or dangerous terrain? It says difficult terrain right now, but bikers and the likes count difficult terrain as dangerous terrain instead.. Just a heads up, in case it was the intent of the upgrade

By the way: I really like this codex! It has made me want to play my orks again Thanks you!

Another good spot! It was intended to be Difficult, but I somehow missed that Bikes and Jetbikes don't make Difficult rolls! The new ruling (if it seems reasonable) shall be that Infantry and Jump Infantry re-roll Difficult Terrain tests, Bikes and Jetbikes re-roll Dangerous Terrain tests.

Thank you for taking an interest! Orks definitely need some love, especially nowadays, so I hope COR does the job for people.



Geez, I need to update the 1st post changelist!

Well I guess I have a fall back to play with my friends if the 8th ends up shafting da boyz. I don't know much about playing the game but all the custo-er-kustomization available is really cool.

I finally took the time to read through some (But not all) of this, and...
Well, it's really impressive that you managed to write all this up, but there's just SO MUCH bookkeeping to be done. This makes playing a Daemons army with two supplements and allied CSM look like a cakewalk on a milk run.
Regular, vanilla Ork Boyz have more than two dozen options listed for purchases. Say what you will about the balance of modern codices, but at least they're clean, tidy, and it's really easy to keep track of who can and has bought what.

It's nice to see the crazy plethora of options available to Orks being represented with rules, but I simply cannot see most of these rules being viable in a large game without slowing things down to a crawl as you have to constantly reference which units took what, on which models.


On the subject of balance, though, I'm seeing some pretty major imbalances here. I think your laundry list of special characters make for the easiest highlight, so I'm going to use them:

Your version of Ghazkull, just to start, is far, far stronger than a regular Ghazkull. For a mere 75 points, he gets T6 and an extra wound, plus a 2++ wound that can soak up extra saves for him (The rule says that his grot can't be allocated Look Out, Sir! wounds, but there's no rule against just setting him right in front of Ghazkull to soak up wounds.) He also gets a 4++, his WAAAGH! is better, his whole unit gets +1 WS, and just for fun you made his Big Shoota twin-linked. Oh, and Counter-attack and Rage, because he's also apparently a Khornate.

Now, I'll be the first guy to say that Ghazkull Thraka isn't quite worth taking at the moment, but the version presented here goes from 'A little overcosted, mostly because he doesn't have any kind of decent retinue' to 'One of, if not the most powerful characters in the game, save for Primarchs and the like.'


Your other characters, meanwhile, aren't quite as powerful, but suffer from a different problem: They're all the exact same character, with only minor deviations. They're all some variant of 2+5++ Power Klaws with almost the exact same statline (T6, 4W), for 230-250 points, and with a psuedo-Eternal Warrior that gives them the rule in pretty much the only time it will ever really matter. (With T6, force weapons and other specialty close combat items are the only thing that are ever going to Instant Death them.)
Tuska deviates from this a little, only getting T5 and a 3+, but he's insanely powerful just by granting your entire army a 5++ and Fear, with practically no downside.
Your other 'Cheaper' characters also deviate a little bit, with their number of Wounds, Toughness, and Save all changing slightly, but they're all incredibly similar.
You get more variation as you go down into the really cheap characters, but of your first seventeen characters listed, only four don't have 2+ armor, three don't have a Power Klaw (Or power klaw equivalent), and only two don't have both. That's 8 characters with effectively identical gear. All told, you have twenty-frikkin'-nine special characters, all of them are pretty darn powerful for their points cost, and only a handful stand out as all that unique.

Your Zogwort is neat, but his version of Zogwort's Curse is vastly more reliable than it ever was when he was in the 4th edition codex, and is almost begging to be exploited.



It's great to see Orks getting the kind of detail and attention that they deserve, but I really think that this codex needs a long, hard look to decide what's really necessary and what isn't. Just for another easy example: Do Orks really need access to 6+, 5+, 4+, two sources of 3+, 2+, 2+/6++, 6++, 5++, and 4++ armor?

(Oh, as a sidenote: Did you intentionally remove the 'Bikes give +1 Toughness' thing? Just a curiosity.)


EDIT: This probably came off as more critical than I intended. It's not bad, it's just... Well, really overcomplicated, and as a rule, overcomplicated leads to imbalance. (It's easy to tell if something is balanced when it has three possible options, but when you've got dozens or hundreds of possible combinations, it becomes a lot harder to see every possible exploit.) I know it can be painful to remove work that you've done (Trust me, I've done enough writing to have experience with how it feels,) but I really do think that what this needs is a lot of culling and trimming to make it more streamlined.

Kill team followed by escalation League in the next few months and the locals are letting me take CoR for it ..(the points are higher )

++ Kill Team Detachment (Codex: Orks Rewrite v1) ++

+ Elites +

········Ork Nobz (Loota Nobz)
············Meena Nob [Big 'Amma, Cybork Eye, Deffgun, Snazzy Armour]
············Ork Nob [Choppa, Cybork Eye, Deffgun, Snazzy Armour]
············Ork Nob [Choppa, Cybork Eye, Deffgun, Snazzy Armour]
············Ork Nob [Choppa, Cybork Eye, Deffgun, Snazzy Armour]
············Ork Nob [Choppa, Cybork Eye, Deffgun, Snazzy Armour]
············Ork Nob [Choppa, Cybork Eye, Deffgun, Snazzy Armour]

so lets see how this runs ..I am putting together the 500, 1000. 1500, and 2000 point lists now

morfydd wrote:
Kill team followed by escalation League in the next few months and the locals are letting me take CoR for it ..(the points are higher )

++ Kill Team Detachment (Codex: Orks Rewrite v1) ++

+ Elites +

········Ork Nobz (Loota Nobz)
············Meena Nob [Big 'Amma, Cybork Eye, Deffgun, Snazzy Armour]
············Ork Nob [Choppa, Cybork Eye, Deffgun, Snazzy Armour]
············Ork Nob [Choppa, Cybork Eye, Deffgun, Snazzy Armour]
············Ork Nob [Choppa, Cybork Eye, Deffgun, Snazzy Armour]
············Ork Nob [Choppa, Cybork Eye, Deffgun, Snazzy Armour]
············Ork Nob [Choppa, Cybork Eye, Deffgun, Snazzy Armour]

so lets see how this runs ..I am putting together the 500, 1000. 1500, and 2000 point lists now

Awesome news, bud! Gotta let us all know how this turns out!
It's cool that you've used the Battlescribe file to work it out, but I've noticed a few of the Nobz costs are incorrect. Loota Nobz should be 30 pts base rather than the 20 pts they currently show - this means your list above comes out to 260 pts! Sorry!

Waaaghpower wrote:
On the subject of balance, though, I'm seeing some pretty major imbalances here. I think your laundry list of special characters make for the easiest highlight, so I'm going to use them:

Your version of Ghazkull, just to start, is far, far stronger than a regular Ghazkull. For a mere 75 points, he gets T6 and an extra wound, plus a 2++ wound that can soak up extra saves for him (The rule says that his grot can't be allocated Look Out, Sir! wounds, but there's no rule against just setting him right in front of Ghazkull to soak up wounds.) He also gets a 4++, his WAAAGH! is better, his whole unit gets +1 WS, and just for fun you made his Big Shoota twin-linked. Oh, and Counter-attack and Rage, because he's also apparently a Khornate.

Now, I'll be the first guy to say that Ghazkull Thraka isn't quite worth taking at the moment, but the version presented here goes from 'A little overcosted, mostly because he doesn't have any kind of decent retinue' to 'One of, if not the most powerful characters in the game, save for Primarchs and the like.'

Credit where it's due, no-one's ever gone into the details like this.
I do understand and agree with your point, but Ghazghkull is intentionally written to be powerful, because I honestly believe he should be! He's the top-Ork in the 41st millenium - in the might-makes-right world of Ork hierachy, that means 'biggest an' tuffest!' - but regular Ghazzy isn't really any tougher than a run-of-the-mill Warboss. So while I am open to making some changes (see later), I'm more concerned with how appropriate his cost is.
Now I must ask you to indulge a brief moment of pedantry.
- Makari is not included in Ghazghkull's base cost - that 2++ wound and +1 WS is an optional extra.
- Ghazzy's Waaagh! is better due to the basic Waaagh! being better. In comparison to the 4th ed rule it's based on (back when everyone could run and charge), Proffit Uv Da Waaagh! alone is actually weaker, since it doesn't grant Fearless and only affects models in range, as opposed to the whole army. See later
- Pretty much everyone I have ever spoken to when talking about or using Ghazzy since I first started playing Orks has said "Wait, that's not Twin-linked?". If basic Meganobz have Twin-linked weapons, why not the Proffit?
- Counter-attack should be the only unexpected addition here (since he effectively had Rage in the 4th ed dex, and for some reason lost it in 7th ed), but as the conferring rule's name suggests, that's the attempt at making Klans actually matter (even if it is small-scale), and Ghazzy is the top-Goff!

Your other characters, meanwhile, aren't quite as powerful, but suffer from a different problem: They're all the exact same character, with only minor deviations. They're all some variant of 2+5++ Power Klaws with almost the exact same statline (T6, 4W), for 230-250 points, and with a psuedo-Eternal Warrior that gives them the rule in pretty much the only time it will ever really matter. (With T6, force weapons and other specialty close combat items are the only thing that are ever going to Instant Death them.)
Tuska deviates from this a little, only getting T5 and a 3+, but he's insanely powerful just by granting your entire army a 5++ and Fear, with practically no downside.
Your other 'Cheaper' characters also deviate a little bit, with their number of Wounds, Toughness, and Save all changing slightly, but they're all incredibly similar.
You get more variation as you go down into the really cheap characters, but of your first seventeen characters listed, only four don't have 2+ armor, three don't have a Power Klaw (Or power klaw equivalent), and only two don't have both. That's 8 characters with effectively identical gear.

Sadly I do agree with this. It probably doesn't help that I don't include artwork or fluff in COR, so the datasheets all look bland and 'samey' - something I hope to try and rectify eventually.
The problem is that, aside from Ghazzy, all the big names in the Ork Who's Who are hardly given anything in terms of screentime (especially when compared to Chapter Masters, their closest analogues), and there's pretty much nothing to say how they would be represented on the tabletop, so I'm working it all out from a few sentences most of the time. :(
Thankfully that job is easier for most of the videogame characters (since they obviously do get representation), so they're just a matter of fine-tuning.
See later

Your Zogwort is neat, but his version of Zogwort's Curse is vastly more reliable than it ever was when he was in the 4th edition codex, and is almost begging to be exploited.

Fair enough. See later

Do Orks really need access to 6+, 5+, 4+, two sources of 3+, 2+, 2+/6++, 6++, 5++, and 4++ armor?

Oh, it's all used by something or other.

(Oh, as a sidenote: Did you intentionally remove the 'Bikes give +1 Toughness' thing? Just a curiosity.)

I removed that part of the description, yes - no need to restate something that's in the BRB.

This probably came off as more critical than I intended. .... I know it can be painful to remove work that you've done (Trust me, I've done enough writing to have experience with how it feels,) but I really do think that what this needs is a lot of culling and trimming to make it more streamlined.

It may shock you to read this, but Version 3 IS culled and streamlined - you never saw Version 2!
Seriously though, I've heard this more than a few times, but I won't be cutting out anything unless it proves to be blatantly overpowered, absolutely useless, in need of another rewrite or just plain annoying to me (it does happen! ). Yes, a lot of stuff in COR is 'unnecessary' - so what? Choice is COR's second most important ideal, and contributes to (and is secondary only to) the most important ideal of Making Orks Fun To Play.

... I'm never this forthright in real life - thank Gork for faceless internet text!



In light of Waaaghpower's observations, I have gone over the named characters again and come up with the following changelist:
Possibly remove No Git'z Tuffa!.
Ghazzy: Replace Twin-linked Big Shoota with Twin-linked Dakkagun, remove Kwik Swinga!, Proffit Uv Da Waaagh! no longer gives 2+ Invul but gives Fearless to units in 12". Increase Makari cost by 5 pts.
Nazdreg: Reduce to T5, remove Gitfinda.
Grog Ironteef: Reduce to S5, replace Power Klaw with Bond-Breaka (Range-, S+2, AP3, Melee), Krysis Skrap Armour confers 3+ Armour.
Klawjaw: Reduce to BS0, increase to A5, remove Rattla Gun.
Garaghak: Replace Eavy Shoota with Rattla Gun.
Gorgutz: Reduce to T5, A3.
Tuska: Vetrunz Uv Da Long Waaagh! only affects units in 12".
Skroll: Reduce to A4, Epik Boss grants Preferred Enemy (Astra Militarum and Imperial Knights), Meetshieldz Gretchin can replace their weapons ala Runtz datasheet, no longer auto-LOS, and are ignored for Mob Rule.
Bluddflagg: Reduce to 180 pts, reduce to W3, Spiky Bitz now only works in a challange.
Grimskull: Reduce to 185 pts, reduce Big Flash Shoota to Assault 1/Assault 2/Assault 6.
Grotsnik: Increase to 165 pts.
Wazdakka: Increase to 175 pts.
Zhadsnark: Increase to 175 pts.
Oddgob: Increase to 135 pts.
Zogwort: Zogwort'z Kurse! now requires both character to roll D6 +Ld - if equal or Zogwort rolls higher, squigification!
Nailbrain: Remove "even if locked in combat" from Personal Tellyporta (since Deep Strike doesn't prevent it anyway), enemy unit targeted by Personal Tellyporta makes Initiative test and Deep Strikes only if failed, Sparky Armour only affects enemy models in base-to-base with Nailbrain.
Spookumz: Burnabombz is now a Grenade (Range 12", S2, AP-, Assault 1, Burny!, Large Blast).
Red Gobbo: Remove ATSKNF from Nevva Da Same Grot!.



I'm hoping to get everything ready for a Christmas Day release - this should include Version 3.0.7, an updated Reference and the next Battlescribe update.

Okay so I fix the list to look like this ..and it works
············Ork Nob [Boss Pole, Cybork Eye, Deffgun, Eavy Armour]
············Ork Nob [Choppa, Cybork Eye, Deffgun, Eavy Armour]
············Ork Nob [Choppa, Cybork Eye, Deffgun, Eavy Armour]
············Ork Nob [Choppa, Cybork Eye, Deffgun, Eavy Armour]
············Ork Nob [Choppa, Cybork Eye, Deffgun, Eavy Armour]
············Ork Nob [Choppa, Cybork Eye, Deffgun, Eavy Armour]
No Meena Nob required...and drop the Snazzy armor to Eavy ..
And I can build this unit and use it as is moved over to a CAD..

 Dr. Zoidbork wrote:

Credit where it's due, no-one's ever gone into the details like this.
I do understand and agree with your point, but Ghazghkull is intentionally written to be powerful, because I honestly believe he should be! He's the top-Ork in the 41st millenium - in the might-makes-right world of Ork hierachy, that means 'biggest an' tuffest!' - but regular Ghazzy isn't really any tougher than a run-of-the-mill Warboss. So while I am open to making some changes (see later), I'm more concerned with how appropriate his cost is.
Now I must ask you to indulge a brief moment of pedantry.
- Makari is not included in Ghazghkull's base cost - that 2++ wound and +1 WS is an optional extra.
- Ghazzy's Waaagh! is better due to the basic Waaagh! being better. In comparison to the 4th ed rule it's based on (back when everyone could run and charge), Proffit Uv Da Waaagh! alone is actually weaker, since it doesn't grant Fearless and only affects models in range, as opposed to the whole army. See later
- Pretty much everyone I have ever spoken to when talking about or using Ghazzy since I first started playing Orks has said "Wait, that's not Twin-linked?". If basic Meganobz have Twin-linked weapons, why not the Proffit?
- Counter-attack should be the only unexpected addition here (since he effectively had Rage in the 4th ed dex, and for some reason lost it in 7th ed), but as the conferring rule's name suggests, that's the attempt at making Klans actually matter (even if it is small-scale), and Ghazzy is the top-Goff!

I wasn't exactly complaining that Ghazzy was tough, (I mean, he IS supposed to be tough, I agree,) I was just saying that he became much more powerful than either of his Codex versions without a significant enough cost increase to justify all his new toys. I'm familiar with the 4th edition codex, and I understand that his 7th edition WAAAGH! got weaker along with his other stats. I'm also aware that his gun really probably should be Twin-Linked if we go by the model. I was more just pointing out that his long, long list of abilities was worth a lot more than 75 points. (I did miss that Makari was a 30pt upgrade, though, that actually seems pretty reasonable.)

Sadly I do agree with this. It probably doesn't help that I don't include artwork or fluff in COR, so the datasheets all look bland and 'samey' - something I hope to try and rectify eventually.
The problem is that, aside from Ghazzy, all the big names in the Ork Who's Who are hardly given anything in terms of screentime (especially when compared to Chapter Masters, their closest analogues), and there's pretty much nothing to say how they would be represented on the tabletop, so I'm working it all out from a few sentences most of the time. :(
Thankfully that job is easier for most of the videogame characters (since they obviously do get representation), so they're just a matter of fine-tuning.
See later

That's fair, but I think this is why most GW-official codexes give you some relics and wargear options for generic leaders, then limit their special characters to the ones who have some pretty noteworthy differences. That's why they added Gazbag's Blitzbike when they got rid of Wazdakka. (It IS nice to see Nazdreg back from his appearance in the 3rd edition Codex.)

Oh, it's all used by something or other.

Well, I'm sure they are, but... Why? No other codex in the game has access to that variety of saves. To my memory, the only guys who even get a 2+. 3+, 4+, 5+, and 6+ are Tyranids, who are (at least supposedly) supposed to be the most versatile and adaptable army in the 40k universe. By granting that much variety of saves, you undercut some of the balance that's always been inherently present in the Orks codex. (For example: Warbosses can either get T6 and good cover, OR they can get good armor, but never both. And sure, 3+ isn't as 'Good' as 2+, but it's better than we've ever gotten before. (Never mind that bosses can get a 3++ with the right relic, rendering the need for 3+ armor Moot.)

I removed that part of the description, yes - no need to restate something that's in the BRB.

Okay. Is this meant to apply to Boarhounds as well? Because Cavalry don't get the +1 T mention in the BRB that bikes do.

This probably came off as more critical than I intended. .... I know it can be painful to remove work that you've done (Trust me, I've done enough writing to have experience with how it feels,) but I really do think that what this needs is a lot of culling and trimming to make it more streamlined.
It may shock you to read this, but Version 3 IS culled and streamlined - you never saw Version 2!
Seriously though, I've heard this more than a few times, but I won't be cutting out anything unless it proves to be blatantly overpowered, absolutely useless, in need of another rewrite or just plain annoying to me (it does happen! ). Yes, a lot of stuff in COR is 'unnecessary' - so what? Choice is COR's second most important ideal, and contributes to (and is secondary only to) the most important ideal of Making Orks Fun To Play.

... I'm never this forthright in real life - thank Gork for faceless internet text!

I don't have the time right now, but when I do, I can go through the whole thing looking for some of those 'Blatantly overpowered' mentions. If you want.

In light of Waaaghpower's observations, I have gone over the named characters again and come up with the following changelist: (SNIP!)

I won't go down the whole list, but I will mention that I think the change to Zogwort is good, removing No Gitz Tougha is good, and you should probably keep Ghazzy's 2++ on the turn he calls a Waaagh!. It's been a part of his rules for as long as most players can remember, taking it out would feel weird. (I'm pretty sure he didn't have it in 3rd, but 4th and onward he did, so it's been around for four editions...)

Waaaghpower wrote:
Well, I'm sure they are, but... Why? No other codex in the game has access to that variety of saves. To my memory, the only guys who even get a 2+. 3+, 4+, 5+, and 6+ are Tyranids, who are (at least supposedly) supposed to be the most versatile and adaptable army in the 40k universe. By granting that much variety of saves, you undercut some of the balance that's always been inherently present in the Orks codex. (For example: Warbosses can either get T6 and good cover, OR they can get good armor, but never both. And sure, 3+ isn't as 'Good' as 2+, but it's better than we've ever gotten before. (Never mind that bosses can get a 3++ with the right relic, rendering the need for 3+ armor Moot.)

Sure, one character can get a 3++, for a significantly higher cost than Snazzy Armour and potentially sacrificing offensive ability. Plus, Snazzy Armour isn't exclusive to H.Q.s - most squad leaders and a few units have access to it too (and no relic access).
Everything has its use and units that have it as standard, or as an upgrade. Skrap Armour is decent for giving Boyz some protection while not breaking the bank, and gives Gretchin some measure of protection without ducking for cover. I view Snazzy Armour as the compromise an Ork has to make when he can't afford full Mega Armour, or still wants to ride his bike - gameplay-wise it's good for challenges, something Orks have always struggled with.
In the same manner as Skrap Armour, Lukky Blue Paint gives modest protection for cheap. The Supa Cybork Body gives Orks access to an Invulnerable Save that pretty much everyone else has. The Squiggoth armours are the only real superfluous upgrades - they're there to fit the context more than anything.

Okay. Is this meant to apply to Boarhounds as well? Because Cavalry don't get the +1 T mention in the BRB that bikes do.

Also true. Boarsquigs don't give +1 Toughness. Even with what little barding the Orks would give them, I don't see them being any tougher than their riders. Instead they're more vicious, taking their own swipes at their foes, or distracting the enemy long enough to give the rider another chance to swing - this explains the +1 Attack.


I'd appreciate any analysis you can offer, Waaaghpower. Not just you, though - anyone can offer input!


Updating the changelist after posting this. I'll also be upping Ghazzy's cost a little more, and clarifying a few more rules and wargear.

Just started looking through this and it seems pretty cool, though the number of upgrade options for each unit is a bit overwhelming. One thing i noticed is that vanilla Nob Mobs still have overpriced wargear. a Nob with Power Klaw is 45 pt while a Meganob with Power Klaw is only 40pt and has a better save, and can get a better gun for free. This is the biggest reason why I never use Nob Mobs with the current dex, and was a little disappointed to see it still here.

Okay, so... This is far from an exhaustive list. I'd say it covers about 2/3rds of the units in the codex, or 1/3rd if we're including Special Characters, but of those units I don't go through every possible choice or option...

Big Boss build: 60pts Base
Warlord - 50 pts
Buzzsaw - 30 pts
Bomma Boss - 5 Pts (Way too good!)
Skrapfang’z Kombat Sheeld - 10 pts
Supa Cybork Body - 20 pts
Deffkopta - 25 pts
Cybork Eye - 10 Pts
Twin-linked Eavy Shoota - 10 Pts
Aimy - 5 Pts
Blasty - 5 Pts
Shooty - 5 Pts
Dakka - 5 Pts
Rippy - 5 Pts
Waaagh! Banna - 15 pts
Stimpakk Infuza - 15 pts
Goffz Boss - 30 pts
‘Orribul Skarz - 5 Ptz
310 pts


You get a BS4, twin-linked gun that deals out 4 S7 AP3 shots that re-roll to-wound and to-hit rolls. (This setup does cost 45 points, so you could drop it if you’re low, I’m just more pointing it out because it’s crazy that Orks can get such good shooting.)
You get T7, W5, and a 3+ invuln. Plus, since you only have a 4+ armor save, you’re not even that vulnerable to Grav weaponry!
You get Freakin’ Defensive Grenades, which are far too good for a 5pt upgrade.
On the charge, you get 7+d3 S10 attacks that will hit on 3s against almost any targets (WS7, after all), and has armorbane against vehicles
His whole squad gets Counter-Attack and +1 Weapon Skill, as well.




I’m going to reiterate that Defensive Grenades should not be a 5 point upgrade, and shouldn’t be widely available. That’s way too good, since Defensive Grenades are pretty rare and hard to get. The only guys who normally get them for cheap are Nurgle, and that’s because, well… Nurgle. I’m not going to begrudge CSM and Chaos for having access to an otherwise rare upgrade.




I mostly like your treatment of Weirdboys, though the fact that they can ground out Perils seems oddly good for an inherently unstable Psyker. (Also, the fact that they can buy guns just strikes me as odd.) Otherwise, it’s nice to see Weirdboys that seem actually useful.




For Big Meks, you don’t deny access to Kustom Jobz for various special weapons, and you can give him +1 BS on top of the Kustom Job, meaning that the Shokk Attack Gun (Amongst other things) can be fired at BS4, twin-linked, AP1, with Shred and +1 to whatever the Strength roll is. (Though I did notice that you arranged it so that you can’t take a Gitfinda with a Shokk Attack Gun, which I appreciate.) This is true of most of your other guns, the access to a laundry list of USRs and upgrades means that almost any gun which is internally balanced can become far, far better for not that many points.
A Deffstorm Mega Cannon, for example, goes from reasonable to broken when it gets BS4, Twin-linked, S7, AP3, Shred, and Ignores Cover. (Throw in shooting at fliers/overwatch at BS2, if you want.) You only have a 16% chance of rolling tripples with 6 dice, (Interestingly, only 1% higher than the odds of rolling tripples with 5 dice,) meaning that you’re almost always going to end up with around 21 shots.


Oddboyz are a neat edition, but some are simply too strong. Remember that incredibly powerful Warboss build I mentioned above? Imagine him, plus he gets one wound back every turn. I’m not sure why you made Painboyz only 1w and 30ppm, but it’s interesting. That’s a more balanced choice, for the most part, though since Orks have a lot of access to +1 for their FNP instead of getting straight 5+, it might be a little OP.
I do quite appreciate that you can take them without filling up a FOC slot, since trying to bring Painboys has always been a, for lack of a better word, pain, when they take up a very valuable HQ slot and you really just want to spam them.




Your Ork Boyz are cool. Making Choppas AP5, giving them optional 5+ armor, and giving the option for Stikkbommaz all seem like they’ll be rarely used (Why bother spending 60 points to give 30 Ork Boyz defensive grenades when, for 65 points, you can just add a Warboss with defensive grenades?) but reducing them to 5ppm is a good idea, making 4+ armor a point cheaper makes it more likely to be taken, granting greater access to special weapons is cool, bringing back Skarboyz is cool. The Proppa Horde might work better as a formation, but as it stands it’s still a pretty cool unit and I don’t see much room for imbalance. My one complaint here is that you make it possible to split armor down the unit, having, say, a few guys with 4+ at the front while saving points by leaving the guys in the back unarmored. You already made armor cheaper, I’d force it to be a universal choice, so players can’t exploit that rule.


Making Dreadz into a squadron is an interesting decision. Overall, it seems mostly pretty good and fairly well costed, though an I4 Dread Nob with 13 armor on the front, charging with 7 Shred attacks, Rampage, and WS5 seems like it’s awfully good. (It’s 160 points, but you can stick him with a big retinue of buddies, and that gets pretty scary.) I do question making them troops, though, since that means you can get ObSec walkers with a lot of armor and hull points to go around.




Nobz suffer from the same problem as Warbosses, too many options, some of which are inherently unbalanced, some of which *become* unbalanced in combo with each other. For example, Kopta Nobz who for 45ppm (+30 pts to the squad for the Painboy), get T5, 3W, 3+5++ and FNP. Except it doesn’t even have to be 45ppm, because you can take a few guys with good saves, stick them in the front of the squad, and let them tank damage while your guys in the back kick it with 4+ and FNP. Not to mention that all of them get free Biggbomms, and rather than paying to give everyone Power Klaws, you can just give ‘Drenal Injektas and Attack Squigs to the guys carrying, and leave them in the back of the squad.


For 585 points, you can get 10 Nobz, 5 of which have a 3+5++, 2 with Power Klaws and melee special gear, 2 with Buzzsaws and melee special gear, giving 20+4d3 WS5 S9 attacks on the charge, half of which also have Armorbane. Yes, it’s an expensive squad, but it’s also a crazy-powerful Deathstar that only D weapons or over-the-top psychic shenanigans could hope to handle.


Or, probably more competitively, you can just take three Koptanobz, and one decked out for combat. That’s 145 points, and gets you 9 T5 wounds and 5+d3 S9 Armorbane attacks on the charge, alongside 10 S5 regular attacks. (Throw in one Big ‘Amma to deny overwatch, takes it up to an even 150.) In fact, spamming these as part of a Bully Boyz formation, and throwing in one of the above deathstars, would make an incredibly good army - USR of Fear, Fearless, and Ws5 across the board. (Ws6 in the deathstar.)




I’m not certain why you decided to make Tankbustas a point cheaper. They’re already pretty much the best Ork unit for tank killing, and is generally regarded as a pretty great unit all around, so making them cheaper is questionable to me. (For that matter, Burna Boyz are also pretty great, and they also get a significant discount.)
Also: Why did you make Flash Gitz into a boys variant, instead of a Nobz variant? A boyz variant who don’t get 4+ armor, for that matter? As I understand the fluff, Flash Gitz are the nobz who used their extravagant wealth to buy the best guns and armor available to Orks, not just another specialist squad who were kitted out by a local Mek.




Your Bigga Dread is concerning, since giving Orks access to a psyker walker seems abusable, and an AV14 walker can be practically unbeatable in Close Combat against a lot of armies. However, outside of certain exploits, he seems a little too pricey to really be worth it in standard use, especially when compared to the regular Dreads you have available. (Heck, he’d probably actually lose a fight with a similarly geared Dread Nob, purely for having lower Initiative.)




I’m… Not certain why Orks get a version of Ogryns, especially Ogyrns that almost exclusively have access to regular Ork wargear. That just seems kinda weird and not very fluffy.




Your ‘Kwikka Boyz’ raise questions. You make Stormboyz more expensive then they are currently, even though Stormboyz are currently pretty lackluster. You make Warbikers cheaper by three points, but make Warbikers with guns two points more expensive. Your Deffkoptas cost the same as well, once you buy them guns, but they now have a freakin’ 5-man minimum, which is huge, and they now have access to Nobz for… some reason. (Which means that, if you don’t want to take Kopta nobz, you can use these guys as an alternate version of the spam unit I mentioned above.)




I like Gun Trukks. They’re neat, and don’t seem overcosted or undercosted.




Nice to see that Lootas can actually loot things again. I’m not sure how balanced this all is without having the four codices necessary to check all of the gun options, though I will say that it seems like it’ll accrue a lot of bookkeeping. (Also, you again make the weapon choice optional for everyone, meaning that you can take cheap boyz with 4+ armor and use them as meatshields.)


Not much to say about the Looted Wagons either, except to say that they ALSO accrue a ton of bookkeeping.




Battlewagons also have a crapton of options, so I’m only going to mention the ones that really stick out…
Your version of Lifta Droppas is kind of useless. It has the ‘Rolls-to-hit’ problem that the modern Lifta Droppa has, but the variable-and-not-so-great damage that the older Lifta Droppa had. These two things combine to make it a gun that isn’t worth spending 90 points on, much less spending 90 points to mount on a 90 point tank.
Why can a Battlewagon hold more boyz without any kind of penalty, other than costing 20 points? It seems like being able to carry 30 boyz (Aside from that being kind of OP in its own way) should accrue at least some kind of penalty.
Weird Towers seem like a fairly big penalty for fairly small benefits, especially since Weirdboyz can already ground out Perils of the Warp effects.




Your Killa Kans also go from ‘Not so great’ to ‘Really, really great’ for one simple reason - They’re 30 points. Don’t take any gear other than the single mandatory Rokkit Launcha, nothing special on them at all, just take a dozen of these guys and sit on objectives all day. Do they kinda suck at almost everything? Yeah, but at 30ppm, who cares? (Or, for 45ppm, Dakkakannons are really great guns to make them at least sort of useful while they sit their cheap, infantry-weapon-proof metal butts on objectives.)




I’m not sure why you made Big Gunz more expensive. They’re good now, sure, but not crazy good or anything. Your regular guns are 2ppm higher, and your Traktor Kannons and Kustom Mega Cannons are a whopping 10ppm more expensive.




Your Stompa is crazy, crazy good. He has more attacks than regular Stompas, for one, and way, way more options. (Plus, he’s now an Assault Vehicle for some reason, and he gets a 6+ Invuln.) Just for fun, I threw together a sample Stompa:
400pts base
One Mega-Choppa (For D-strength attacks) - 35 points
Three Deff Kannons with Vetrun Gunna Krew - 330 points
Belly Gun with Vetrun Gunna Krew - 90 pts
Gaze of Mork with Vetrun Gunna Krew - 50 pts
4 Big Shootas (Why not?) - 20
Bigga Hold and another Bigga Hold - 40 pts
Drenal Injecta - 15 pts
Waaagh! Banna - 15 pts
Feet of Gork - 20 pts
Stimpakk Infuza - 20 pts
Big Wagon Bitz - 30 pts
Kustom Powa Field - 40 pts
Kustom Force Field - 50 pts


The cost comes out to 1160 points, which is only a few hundred more than a current Stompa. What do you get for that? Well…
Three times the firepower of the main gun, with better accuracy on top of it, and better firepower from everything else, too.
A 5+ Invuln for it and everyone else nearby, 13 Hull Points, 14 armor on the front, and a Void Shield that takes a bunch of firepower and luck to bring down.
WS5, 5+d3 SD attacks, and +1 Initiative over a regular Stompa. Oh, and better Stomps.


Or, just to go all cheap, you could take a Stompa with just four mega-choppas, a Waagh! Banna, a Stimpakk Infusa, and a Drenal Injecta. For less than 600 points, you’re getting 9+d3 SD attacks on the charge.






I’m not going to go into detail on the Supa Stompa, except to say that it’s far too durable for the cost, and that the Skrapborn Giant rule means that you can be effectively immune to shooting - You charge, voluntarily choose to stay locked in combat on the enemy turn, and then voluntarily break away on your turn. It’s just plain broken. (The loadout of the Stompa above, on this Dread, plus two more Power Fields and what extra weapons it can take, will beat most 2k armies all on its own.)


The same also applies to the Gargant, though since it costs a minimum of 2030 points, it’s less egregious. (Most games at more than 2k are Apocalypse games, after all.)




Oh, and ‘Kustom Mega-’ weapons should have Gets Hot, since they are the orky equivalent of Plasma, and there is no way that Ork gunz should be more reliable than Imperial ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
FOLLOWUP:
Just for fun, I used your Battlescribe data to write up a sample list, more to make a point than anything.
I discovered while writing that I had overlooked one of your relics, namely the Kog Flymek'z Killkopta. This means that Warlords can either be T8 3+4++, T7 3++, or T7 2+4++, or T7 3+4++ with Eternal Warrior and FNP, all for (approximately) the same cost. Either way, that's crazy durable.

Anyways, here's my 2k list: (My local meta is 2k, I know some people play 1850. In that case, drop one Nob squad and take the Snazzy armor from two Nobz.)

Total: 2000 points

Core choice:
Big Ork Mob: 680 pts
Warlord - Burny Fing, Power Klaw, Goffz Boss, Bomma Boss, Kog Flymekz, Attack Squig, Cybork Eye, Snazzy Armor, Stimpakk Infuza, Supa Cybork Body, Waaagh! Banna - 305 pts

Oddboy - Mad Dok - Deffkopta - 45 pts
Oddboy - Mad Dok - Deffkopta - 45 pts

Ork Boyz - 10 Boyz - 50 pts
Ork Boyz - 10 Boyz - 50 pts
Ork Boyz - 10 Boyz - 50 pts

Ork Nobz - Kopta Nobz - 135 pts (All equipped with Bigbomms)
Nob - Power Klaw, Attack Squig - 65 pts
Nob x2 - 70 pts


Auxiliary Choices:
Bully Boyz: 905
Ork Nobz - Kopta Nobz - 635 pts (All equipped with Bigbomms, Extra Spikey Bitz, and Cybork Bodies)
Pain Nob - Supa Jooce - 85 pts
Meena Nob - Buzzsaw, Attack Squig, Stimpakk Infuza, Snazzy Armor - 85 pts
Nob - Buzzsaw, Attack Squig - 70 pts
Nob x2 - Power Klaw, Attack Squig - 130 pts
Nob x5 - Snazzy Armor - 200 pts

Ork Nobz - Kopta Nobz - 135 pts (All equipped with Bigbomms)
Nob - Power Klaw, Attack Squig - 65 pts
Nob x2 - 70 pts

Ork Nobz - Kopta Nobz - 135 pts (All equipped with Bigbomms)
Nob - Power Klaw, Attack Squig - 65 pts
Nob x2 - 70 pts


Bully Boyz: 415 pts
Ork Nobz - Kopta Nobz - 135 pts (All equipped with Bigbomms)
Nob - Power Klaw, Attack Squig - 65 pts
Nob x2 - 70 pts

Ork Nobz - Kopta Nobz - 140 pts (All equipped with Bigbomms)
Nob - Buzzsaw, Attack Squig - 70 pts
Nob x2 - 70 pts

Ork Nobz - Kopta Nobz - 140 pts (All equipped with Bigbomms)
Nob - Buzzsaw, Attack Squig - 70 pts
Nob x2 - 70 pts




And, that's it, that's the most competitive list that I could come up with given your codex. 31 models with almost 100 wounds between them, and pretty much the only thing that could possibly kill this list is a lot of D or a lot of S10 AP2 that also ignores cover. Since pretty much nobody has any shooting, they can just Jink all day long, and while it's a 4+ and not the 3+ you'd get from a bike, they also have 3w to compensate.

If someone tries to challenge out the Warboss with one of the few things that might actually kill him, (Keep in mind, even dedicated melee specialists are wounding him on 3+ or 4+ most of the time,) he can just pass the challenge on to the Meena nob and keep killing squad members instead. The big deathstar has 3+ armor, 4+ cover, 4+ FNP and a 5++ invuln.

The boss himself is a crazy WS7 BS3 S6 W5 I4 A6 Ld10 2+4++ model with Furious Charge, Rage, Fear, Counter-Attack for his whole unit, WS+1 for his whole unit, Defensive Grenades, and he strikes as S10 AP2. (Oh, and since he gets a re-roll on his warlord trait, chances are almost certain he's either going to re-roll failed saves in melee, strike at I4 on the first turn of combat, or have Eternal Warrior.)

(Thinking about it, it might be a better idea to go for the 3++ than it is the 2+4++, if for no other reason than most melee fighters have AP2 anyways, so he needs the invuln more, but it's the same point cost either way.)


This list lacks any kind of anti-air, but at least where I play, flyers are few and far between. Even those that exist really have nothing to deal with this list, simply because they lack the firepower to really bring it down. (Though I'm sure you could drop a couple Nobz units and add a Big Runt mob to include some Traktor Kannons, if you're worried.)

Really, it's just about target saturation and speed. You can leave your Ork Boyz sitting on objectives in your deployment zone, but your opponent has to decide what their target priority is - Do they try and take down the small, tough Power Klaws that are roaming around the board, able to wreck tanks and bog down shooty units alike? Or do they try and take down the 39-wound Deathstar in the center of the board? (The one capable of shrugging off all but the strongest firepower in the game?)

Heck, if the opponent has something to be really worried about, like that Vindicator formation that lets them fire a 10" S10 Ignores Cover shot (One of the only things that might threaten this list,) the Ork player is free to leave their deathstar in reserves, keep the Warboss attached to a little unit instead of the big one, and wreck the threat turn one before it can hurt the big boys.

Even Tau shooting is going to struggle to inflict this many wounds against this many separate units, most of which are tough enough to soak up infantry fire without a care. (10 Boltguns in rapid-fire range only inflict two wounds against T5 4+, which isn't even enough to kill one Nob, and against T5 3+ 4+ FNP, it barely inflicts 2/3rds of a wound statistically.) Plus, if the enemy brings a horde (Which is normally the ideal thing to bring against smaller, stronger units,) the army has 28 Biggbomz which can be launched at them, which is enough firepower to, just for example, kill 80+ Ork Boyz or 100+ Guardsmen.

Waaaghpower wrote:
I’m going to reiterate that Defensive Grenades should not be a 5 point upgrade, and shouldn’t be widely available. That’s way too good, since Defensive Grenades are pretty rare and hard to get. The only guys who normally get them for cheap are Nurgle, and that’s because, well… Nurgle. I’m not going to begrudge CSM and Chaos for having access to an otherwise rare upgrade.

Alright, I'll bump up the cost - is 10 pts enough, or should I take it up to 15? Tau also get a fair few units with photon grenades, btw.

I mostly like your treatment of Weirdboys, though the fact that they can ground out Perils seems oddly good for an inherently unstable Psyker. (Also, the fact that they can buy guns just strikes me as odd.) Otherwise, it’s nice to see Weirdboys that seem actually useful.

There is a basis for the Koppa Staff in the fluff - somehow it acts as an earth to a Weirdboy's building psychic power.

For Big Meks, you don’t deny access to Kustom Jobz for various special weapons, and you can give him +1 BS on top of the Kustom Job, meaning that the Shokk Attack Gun (Amongst other things) can be fired at BS4, twin-linked, AP1, with Shred and +1 to whatever the Strength roll is. (Though I did notice that you arranged it so that you can’t take a Gitfinda with a Shokk Attack Gun, which I appreciate.) This is true of most of your other guns, the access to a laundry list of USRs and upgrades means that almost any gun which is internally balanced can become far, far better for not that many points.
A Deffstorm Mega Cannon, for example, goes from reasonable to broken when it gets BS4, Twin-linked, S7, AP3, Shred, and Ignores Cover. (Throw in shooting at fliers/overwatch at BS2, if you want.) You only have a 16% chance of rolling tripples with 6 dice, (Interestingly, only 1% higher than the odds of rolling tripples with 5 dice,) meaning that you’re almost always going to end up with around 21 shots.

Absolutely fair, though I'm surprised at those odds at the end (would have thought much higher!). I now plan to divide the list into two sections; the first being lighter weapons with access to Kustom Jobz, the second being heavy weapons without access (and possibly excluding the KFF). The Gitfinda restrictions will be removed due to a change in the base description.

Oddboyz are a neat edition, but some are simply too strong. Remember that incredibly powerful Warboss build I mentioned above? Imagine him, plus he gets one wound back every turn. I’m not sure why you made Painboyz only 1w and 30ppm, but it’s interesting. That’s a more balanced choice, for the most part, though since Orks have a lot of access to +1 for their FNP instead of getting straight 5+, it might be a little OP.
I do quite appreciate that you can take them without filling up a FOC slot, since trying to bring Painboys has always been a, for lack of a better word, pain, when they take up a very valuable HQ slot and you really just want to spam them.

Yeah, the Mad Dok is too powerful. Unfortunately I can't think of any other use for him that doesn't overlap with the Painboy, so he's getting the axe entirely.
Hopefully that FNP issue is mitigated by the maximum of 4+ restriction being implemented next version.

Making Dreadz into a squadron is an interesting decision. Overall, it seems mostly pretty good and fairly well costed, though an I4 Dread Nob with 13 armor on the front, charging with 7 Shred attacks, Rampage, and WS5 seems like it’s awfully good. (It’s 160 points, but you can stick him with a big retinue of buddies, and that gets pretty scary.) I do question making them troops, though, since that means you can get ObSec walkers with a lot of armor and hull points to go around.

Dread Mob returns! I agree with the ObSec point, so will introduce a rule forbidding it. I'll up the Dread Nob base cost a little too, to be safe.

Nobz suffer from the same problem as Warbosses, too many options, some of which are inherently unbalanced, some of which *become* unbalanced in combo with each other. For example, Kopta Nobz who for 45ppm (+30 pts to the squad for the Painboy), get T5, 3W, 3+5++ and FNP. Except it doesn’t even have to be 45ppm, because you can take a few guys with good saves, stick them in the front of the squad, and let them tank damage while your guys in the back kick it with 4+ and FNP. Not to mention that all of them get free Biggbomms, and rather than paying to give everyone Power Klaws, you can just give ‘Drenal Injektas and Attack Squigs to the guys carrying, and leave them in the back of the squad.

WIll be upping the Kopta Nobz cost significantly.
The free Big Bomm was never meant to be a thing - this'll teach me to make changes last thing at night! The changelist already has it covered.

I’m not certain why you decided to make Tankbustas a point cheaper. They’re already pretty much the best Ork unit for tank killing, and is generally regarded as a pretty great unit all around, so making them cheaper is questionable to me. (For that matter, Burna Boyz are also pretty great, and they also get a significant discount.)
Also: Why did you make Flash Gitz into a boys variant, instead of a Nobz variant? A boyz variant who don’t get 4+ armor, for that matter? As I understand the fluff, Flash Gitz are the nobz who used their extravagant wealth to buy the best guns and armor available to Orks, not just another specialist squad who were kitted out by a local Mek.

It always felt like they were too expensive to field in 4th Ed. 7th gave Tankbustas a boost (if you could stand Mob Rule) with their cost-cut, better Glory Hogz and return of Tank Hunters, and now a nerf with the FAQs, so it's now a matter of accounting for the changes in the army mechanics that COR makes. Having said all that, I guess 13 pts is appropriate.
Burna Boyz are pretty good (again barring MR), but 16 pts felt too high. Again, the basics of COR may necessitate a higher-than-current cost. 14 - 15 pts?
Back in 3rd Ed, Flash Gitz were a Boy-level unit. The Nob variant is still there as the Flash Nobz, though more like their 4th Ed incarnation. As for fluff, priority is always placed on the gun - I guess the Nobz just have more teef to play with - and you can always buy them Eavy Armour with the Speshul Boyz options.

Your Bigga Dread is concerning, since giving Orks access to a psyker walker seems abusable, and an AV14 walker can be practically unbeatable in Close Combat against a lot of armies. However, outside of certain exploits, he seems a little too pricey to really be worth it in standard use, especially when compared to the regular Dreads you have available.

The difficulty here is that trying to solve one problem exaggerates the other - the only option I can think of is to make the Wurr Dread a much more expensive option. I'm open to any ideas anyone has?

I’m… Not certain why Orks get a version of Ogryns, especially Ogyrns that almost exclusively have access to regular Ork wargear. That just seems kinda weird and not very fluffy.

A loving tribute to 2nd Ed where Ogryns could be taken as part of an Ork army - it's never been retconned!
Brief fluff summary: There are lots of human-colonised worlds cut off from the Imperium, a percentage of which will be the high-gravity worlds that necessitate the evolution into the Ogryn sub-species. Orks being pretty much everywhere, they'll stumble upon these worlds looking for fights or loot, and come across some humans that are clearly trying to be Orky! Respect! The Orks have two options: a) carry on with the original plan, knowing that these Ogryn will put up a great fight, or b) pressgang them into the warband, knowing that they'll be good as packmules and warriors alike. The Ogryns adapt remarkably well to the Orkish lifestyle with their comparable physique and mental capacity, and the childlike awe and loyalty usually dedicated to the Emperor through Imperial doctrination is easily twisted to accept a powerful Warboss as the focus of admiration.

*panting for breath*

Your ‘Kwikka Boyz’ raise questions. You make Stormboyz more expensive then they are currently, even though Stormboyz are currently pretty lackluster. You make Warbikers cheaper by three points, but make Warbikers with guns two points more expensive. Your Deffkoptas cost the same as well, once you buy them guns, but they now have a freakin’ 5-man minimum, which is huge, and they now have access to Nobz for… some reason. (Which means that, if you don’t want to take Kopta nobz, you can use these guys as an alternate version of the spam unit I mentioned above.)

The Stormboys are more expensive because the Rokkit Pakk works differently - it's back to its 4th Ed version, though the extra D6" applies whenever they act as Jump Infantry, i.e. during Movement or Assault.
Biker Boyz... eh, I like round numbers.
I gave the Kopta Boyz a Nob option to help morale, their classic weakness - plus, they're a mob of Boyz, so who else is going to keep order?
For unit size, I am willing to push down to three - it makes sense for the Biker Boyz and Boar Boyz too.

Nice to see that Lootas can actually loot things again. I’m not sure how balanced this all is without having the four codices necessary to check all of the gun options, though I will say that it seems like it’ll accrue a lot of bookkeeping. (Also, you again make the weapon choice optional for everyone, meaning that you can take cheap boyz with 4+ armor and use them as meatshields.) Not much to say about the Looted Wagons either, except to say that they ALSO accrue a ton of bookkeeping.

Are these units in the current Battlescribe file? I think all the weapons have full profiles attached to them (except for codex-specific rules like Gauss), so that may help. If not, five minutes with a pencil, a notepad and a friend's book.

Your version of Lifta Droppas is kind of useless. It has the ‘Rolls-to-hit’ problem that the modern Lifta Droppa has, but the variable-and-not-so-great damage that the older Lifta Droppa had. These two things combine to make it a gun that isn’t worth spending 90 points on, much less spending 90 points to mount on a 90 point tank.
Why can a Battlewagon hold more boyz without any kind of penalty, other than costing 20 points? It seems like being able to carry 30 boyz (Aside from that being kind of OP in its own way) should accrue at least some kind of penalty.
Weird Towers seem like a fairly big penalty for fairly small benefits, especially since Weirdboyz can already ground out Perils of the Warp effects.

Did you see the Supa-Lifta-Droppa? It's a very different beast - might something like that on a smaller scale be acceptable for the regular one?
It never occured to me that Bigga Holds would need a drawback other than cost. If you have any ideas, I'll happily hear them.
Good spot on the Weird Tower. How about granting a unique Witchfire while embarked instead?

Your Killa Kans also go from ‘Not so great’ to ‘Really, really great’ for one simple reason - They’re 30 points. Don’t take any gear other than the single mandatory Rokkit Launcha, nothing special on them at all, just take a dozen of these guys and sit on objectives all day. Do they kinda suck at almost everything? Yeah, but at 30ppm, who cares? (Or, for 45ppm, Dakkakannons are really great guns to make them at least sort of useful while they sit their cheap, infantry-weapon-proof metal butts on objectives.)

Yeah, they're pretty good without the DCCW tax. I'll bump them up a few points.

I’m not sure why you made Big Gunz more expensive. They’re good now, sure, but not crazy good or anything. Your regular guns are 2ppm higher, and your Traktor Kannons and Kustom Mega Cannons are a whopping 10ppm more expensive.

Those weapon costs were decided by comparing their usual cost to the usual cost of the base gun (the Kannon) - if you think it's fine, I'll drop them down.

Your Stompa is crazy, crazy good. He has more attacks than regular Stompas, for one, and way, way more options. (Plus, he’s now an Assault Vehicle for some reason, and he gets a 6+ Invuln.)

I'm thinking 50 pt cost increase?

I’m not going to go into detail on the Supa Stompa, except to say that it’s far too durable for the cost, and that the Skrapborn Giant rule means that you can be effectively immune to shooting - You charge, voluntarily choose to stay locked in combat on the enemy turn, and then voluntarily break away on your turn. It’s just plain broken. (The loadout of the Stompa above, on this Dread, plus two more Power Fields and what extra weapons it can take, will beat most 2k armies all on its own.)

That's not the intent of Skrapborn Giant, but I guess it's not clear from the way it's written now - the intent was that you only decide once at the end of the first turn of the combat: either immediately withdraw, or stay bogged down until the end. Aside from that, I'll add that you only get this choice if you charge.
Same with the Gargant's Skrapborn Kolossus rule.

Might also drop the Kustom Powa Field to AV11.

Oh, and ‘Kustom Mega-’ weapons should have Gets Hot, since they are the orky equivalent of Plasma, and there is no way that Ork gunz should be more reliable than Imperial ones.

Fair, though it can't be applied to all of them (i.e. the One Use Only ones).


Regarding your followup, the point is made. A few things were off with the list, but the point definitely stands.
(Pain Nobs can't take relics, but you could get another Oddboy from the Big Ork Mob to do the same job. Big Bomms are 5 pts each as talked about above, but I don't remember if that's in the current Battlescribe file. The different Warlord stats you demonstrated at the beginning were from using relics, but the Looted Warboss can only be used by Infantry - no T8.) - Apologies for pedantry.

Also, I'm changing Kog Flymek'z Killkopta - no more armour shenannigans!


If you (or anyone else) come across anything else, let me know! This is quite easily the best feedback I've had for COR in all 5 years of its life.

 Dr. Zoidbork wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
I’m going to reiterate that Defensive Grenades should not be a 5 point upgrade, and shouldn’t be widely available. That’s way too good, since Defensive Grenades are pretty rare and hard to get. The only guys who normally get them for cheap are Nurgle, and that’s because, well… Nurgle. I’m not going to begrudge CSM and Chaos for having access to an otherwise rare upgrade.

Alright, I'll bump up the cost - is 10 pts enough, or should I take it up to 15? Tau also get a fair few units with photon grenades, btw.

I'd say 15. I don't mind Tau getting it, because Tau are going to crumple if they get into Close Combat anyways, their whole schtick is weakening you before the fighting starts, and then dying - Orks are going to bring a lot of hurt in close combat, and so they don't need as many defensive abilities against assault - T4 and a buttload of attacks are plenty.

I mostly like your treatment of Weirdboys, though the fact that they can ground out Perils seems oddly good for an inherently unstable Psyker. (Also, the fact that they can buy guns just strikes me as odd.) Otherwise, it’s nice to see Weirdboys that seem actually useful.

There is a basis for the Koppa Staff in the fluff - somehow it acts as an earth to a Weirdboy's building psychic power.

That's fair, but it creates a bit of a counter-intuitive problem. Weirdboyz are penalized for having Warp Charges left at the end of the turn, but they have an easy way to burn Warp Charges, since they can just throw all but one of their dice in a giant power and burn them all out, then spend the last Warp Charge to ground out the Perils of the Warp. I'd make the Koppa Staff an upgrade (Maybe 10 points?), and change the effect so that it lets them literally just throw away a certain number of Warp Charges at the end of the turn. (Done casting powers and still have a few Warp Charges left over? Here, let's help you throw away D3 warp charges so your head doesn't explode.)

For Big Meks, you don’t deny access to Kustom Jobz for various special weapons, and you can give him +1 BS on top of the Kustom Job, meaning that the Shokk Attack Gun (Amongst other things) can be fired at BS4, twin-linked, AP1, with Shred and +1 to whatever the Strength roll is. (Though I did notice that you arranged it so that you can’t take a Gitfinda with a Shokk Attack Gun, which I appreciate.) This is true of most of your other guns, the access to a laundry list of USRs and upgrades means that almost any gun which is internally balanced can become far, far better for not that many points.
A Deffstorm Mega Cannon, for example, goes from reasonable to broken when it gets BS4, Twin-linked, S7, AP3, Shred, and Ignores Cover. (Throw in shooting at fliers/overwatch at BS2, if you want.) You only have a 16% chance of rolling tripples with 6 dice, (Interestingly, only 1% higher than the odds of rolling tripples with 5 dice,) meaning that you’re almost always going to end up with around 21 shots.

Absolutely fair, though I'm surprised at those odds at the end (would have thought much higher!). I now plan to divide the list into two sections; the first being lighter weapons with access to Kustom Jobz, the second being heavy weapons without access (and possibly excluding the KFF). The Gitfinda restrictions will be removed due to a change in the base description.

I was surprised by that too, and it's *possible* I did the math wrong, but even if I made a mistake, it's a marginal difference - There's definitely a 15% chance of getting tripples with 5 dice, and even if I was way off, there's no more than about a 20% chance of getting tripples with 6 dice. Don't ask me why.

Oddboyz are a neat edition, but some are simply too strong. Remember that incredibly powerful Warboss build I mentioned above? Imagine him, plus he gets one wound back every turn. I’m not sure why you made Painboyz only 1w and 30ppm, but it’s interesting. That’s a more balanced choice, for the most part, though since Orks have a lot of access to +1 for their FNP instead of getting straight 5+, it might be a little OP.
I do quite appreciate that you can take them without filling up a FOC slot, since trying to bring Painboys has always been a, for lack of a better word, pain, when they take up a very valuable HQ slot and you really just want to spam them.

Yeah, the Mad Dok is too powerful. Unfortunately I can't think of any other use for him that doesn't overlap with the Painboy, so he's getting the axe entirely.
Hopefully that FNP issue is mitigated by the maximum of 4+ restriction being implemented next version.

Here's an idea - Make them recover a wound on a 5+, but on a roll of 1, the model instead loses a wound. (Similar to 5th edition Mekboyz occasionally causing more damage than they were trying to fix.) Grot Orderlies give a reroll, same as they would give to FNP, but you still only get one re-roll, and no matter how many Mad Doks you have, you only get one attempt - At best, about a 55% chance of recovering a wound instead of making it 100% reliable, and there's always a chance of critical failure to add some risk.

Making Dreadz into a squadron is an interesting decision. Overall, it seems mostly pretty good and fairly well costed, though an I4 Dread Nob with 13 armor on the front, charging with 7 Shred attacks, Rampage, and WS5 seems like it’s awfully good. (It’s 160 points, but you can stick him with a big retinue of buddies, and that gets pretty scary.) I do question making them troops, though, since that means you can get ObSec walkers with a lot of armor and hull points to go around.

Dread Mob returns! I agree with the ObSec point, so will introduce a rule forbidding it. I'll up the Dread Nob base cost a little too, to be safe.

That sounds like a reasonable fix. And yeah, and extra 10 points or so on the Dread Nob should make it pretty well balanced.

Nobz suffer from the same problem as Warbosses, too many options, some of which are inherently unbalanced, some of which *become* unbalanced in combo with each other. For example, Kopta Nobz who for 45ppm (+30 pts to the squad for the Painboy), get T5, 3W, 3+5++ and FNP. Except it doesn’t even have to be 45ppm, because you can take a few guys with good saves, stick them in the front of the squad, and let them tank damage while your guys in the back kick it with 4+ and FNP. Not to mention that all of them get free Biggbomms, and rather than paying to give everyone Power Klaws, you can just give ‘Drenal Injektas and Attack Squigs to the guys carrying, and leave them in the back of the squad.

WIll be upping the Kopta Nobz cost significantly.
The free Big Bomm was never meant to be a thing - this'll teach me to make changes last thing at night! The changelist already has it covered.

Okay, that makes a lot more sense, I was wondering about that. I would also suggest that Warbosses/Warlords should not have access to Deffkoptas, period. They're supposed to be massively heavy, and the idea of them farting around in a personal helicopter just seems like it wouldn't really work, outside of rare and exceptional gear. Also, from a balance perspective, 5 T7 wounds with a 5++ is literally what a Great Unclean One gets. It seems strange that any Ork would be able to hit that without really exceptional conditions. (So, keep the Relic Deffkopta, drop the Relic's save boost, and just make it the only way to give Warlords a Deffkopta. +1 Wound on top of all the bike bonuses is more than enough of a bonus for Relics)

I’m not certain why you decided to make Tankbustas a point cheaper. They’re already pretty much the best Ork unit for tank killing, and is generally regarded as a pretty great unit all around, so making them cheaper is questionable to me. (For that matter, Burna Boyz are also pretty great, and they also get a significant discount.)
Also: Why did you make Flash Gitz into a boys variant, instead of a Nobz variant? A boyz variant who don’t get 4+ armor, for that matter? As I understand the fluff, Flash Gitz are the nobz who used their extravagant wealth to buy the best guns and armor available to Orks, not just another specialist squad who were kitted out by a local Mek.

It always felt like they were too expensive to field in 4th Ed. 7th gave Tankbustas a boost (if you could stand Mob Rule) with their cost-cut, better Glory Hogz and return of Tank Hunters, and now a nerf with the FAQs, so it's now a matter of accounting for the changes in the army mechanics that COR makes. Having said all that, I guess 13 pts is appropriate.
Burna Boyz are pretty good (again barring MR), but 16 pts felt too high. Again, the basics of COR may necessitate a higher-than-current cost. 14 - 15 pts?
Back in 3rd Ed, Flash Gitz were a Boy-level unit. The Nob variant is still there as the Flash Nobz, though more like their 4th Ed incarnation. As for fluff, priority is always placed on the gun - I guess the Nobz just have more teef to play with - and you can always buy them Eavy Armour with the Speshul Boyz options.

I think 15 points (Back what they cost in 5th ed) would be appropriate. As for Flash Gitz, I'd forgotten that about the 3rd edition codex, so I suppose that fits.

Your Bigga Dread is concerning, since giving Orks access to a psyker walker seems abusable, and an AV14 walker can be practically unbeatable in Close Combat against a lot of armies. However, outside of certain exploits, he seems a little too pricey to really be worth it in standard use, especially when compared to the regular Dreads you have available.

The difficulty here is that trying to solve one problem exaggerates the other - the only option I can think of is to make the Wurr Dread a much more expensive option. I'm open to any ideas anyone has?

I'd just drop access to the +1 front armor upgrade. Since Front Armor is the most important armor value for a Walker (It's what they get hit on in Close Combat,) giving access to AV14 is the only real imbalancer there. I also don't know for certain that a Wurr dread is going to be imbalanced, it's just something that looks suspect and will require a lot of playtesting.

I’m… Not certain why Orks get a version of Ogryns, especially Ogyrns that almost exclusively have access to regular Ork wargear. That just seems kinda weird and not very fluffy.

A loving tribute to 2nd Ed where Ogryns could be taken as part of an Ork army - it's never been retconned!
Brief fluff summary: There are lots of human-colonised worlds cut off from the Imperium, a percentage of which will be the high-gravity worlds that necessitate the evolution into the Ogryn sub-species. Orks being pretty much everywhere, they'll stumble upon these worlds looking for fights or loot, and come across some humans that are clearly trying to be Orky! Respect! The Orks have two options: a) carry on with the original plan, knowing that these Ogryn will put up a great fight, or b) pressgang them into the warband, knowing that they'll be good as packmules and warriors alike. The Ogryns adapt remarkably well to the Orkish lifestyle with their comparable physique and mental capacity, and the childlike awe and loyalty usually dedicated to the Emperor through Imperial doctrination is easily twisted to accept a powerful Warboss as the focus of admiration.

*panting for breath*

Oh. Neat!

Your ‘Kwikka Boyz’ raise questions. You make Stormboyz more expensive then they are currently, even though Stormboyz are currently pretty lackluster. You make Warbikers cheaper by three points, but make Warbikers with guns two points more expensive. Your Deffkoptas cost the same as well, once you buy them guns, but they now have a freakin’ 5-man minimum, which is huge, and they now have access to Nobz for… some reason. (Which means that, if you don’t want to take Kopta nobz, you can use these guys as an alternate version of the spam unit I mentioned above.)

The Stormboys are more expensive because the Rokkit Pakk works differently - it's back to its 4th Ed version, though the extra D6" applies whenever they act as Jump Infantry, i.e. during Movement or Assault.
Biker Boyz... eh, I like round numbers.
I gave the Kopta Boyz a Nob option to help morale, their classic weakness - plus, they're a mob of Boyz, so who else is going to keep order?
For unit size, I am willing to push down to three - it makes sense for the Biker Boyz and Boar Boyz too.

Ah, hadn't noticed that with the Stormboyz. As for the Biker boys, I'd bump the price for naked boys by a point or two and reduce the price of guns by the same. Since they get a +1 Jink, people rarely shoot with them anyways, so having them cheap and unburdened by guns isn't really a penalty. I'd also make buying a gun for Kopta Boyz mandatory, so that they cost a little more and can't be used as a way of spamming Nobz with Power Klaws for cheap.

Nice to see that Lootas can actually loot things again. I’m not sure how balanced this all is without having the four codices necessary to check all of the gun options, though I will say that it seems like it’ll accrue a lot of bookkeeping. (Also, you again make the weapon choice optional for everyone, meaning that you can take cheap boyz with 4+ armor and use them as meatshields.) Not much to say about the Looted Wagons either, except to say that they ALSO accrue a ton of bookkeeping.

Are these units in the current Battlescribe file? I think all the weapons have full profiles attached to them (except for codex-specific rules like Gauss), so that may help. If not, five minutes with a pencil, a notepad and a friend's book.

That's fair. I don't know if they're on the Battlescribe file, but you can always pull up the relevant armies to check and then make a note. Still a lot of guns.

Your version of Lifta Droppas is kind of useless. It has the ‘Rolls-to-hit’ problem that the modern Lifta Droppa has, but the variable-and-not-so-great damage that the older Lifta Droppa had. These two things combine to make it a gun that isn’t worth spending 90 points on, much less spending 90 points to mount on a 90 point tank.
Why can a Battlewagon hold more boyz without any kind of penalty, other than costing 20 points? It seems like being able to carry 30 boyz (Aside from that being kind of OP in its own way) should accrue at least some kind of penalty.
Weird Towers seem like a fairly big penalty for fairly small benefits, especially since Weirdboyz can already ground out Perils of the Warp effects.

Did you see the Supa-Lifta-Droppa? It's a very different beast - might something like that on a smaller scale be acceptable for the regular one?
It never occured to me that Bigga Holds would need a drawback other than cost. If you have any ideas, I'll happily hear them.
Good spot on the Weird Tower. How about granting a unique Witchfire while embarked instead?

How about this for the Weird Tower - The Weirdboy instead gets +1 Ballistic Skill when firing Witchfires, and may fire blessings and maledictions from it.
As for Bigga Holds, I don't know how this would scale with other tanks, but I would say that increasing the capacity to hold 30 boyz means that everything else has to be stripped out - No room for guns or ammo. If you want a Battlewagon that holds 30 boyz, then you don't get any Big Shootas or Kannons. (Similar to how the LRC gets weaker guns in order to make room for more Terminators.)
The Supa-Lifta-Droppa is cool. Maybe do something like that - Make the Lifta Droppa a small blast, and everything under the template has their gravity screwed with. It makes it more accurate by a fraction, while still offering plenty of possibilities for mayhem.

Your Killa Kans also go from ‘Not so great’ to ‘Really, really great’ for one simple reason - They’re 30 points. Don’t take any gear other than the single mandatory Rokkit Launcha, nothing special on them at all, just take a dozen of these guys and sit on objectives all day. Do they kinda suck at almost everything? Yeah, but at 30ppm, who cares? (Or, for 45ppm, Dakkakannons are really great guns to make them at least sort of useful while they sit their cheap, infantry-weapon-proof metal butts on objectives.)

Yeah, they're pretty good without the DCCW tax. I'll bump them up a few points.

I'd make the DCCW cheaper, too, since Killa Kanz suck in melee with or without it anyways. Maybe 5ppm more expensive, but DCCWs only cost 5 points?

I’m not sure why you made Big Gunz more expensive. They’re good now, sure, but not crazy good or anything. Your regular guns are 2ppm higher, and your Traktor Kannons and Kustom Mega Cannons are a whopping 10ppm more expensive.

Those weapon costs were decided by comparing their usual cost to the usual cost of the base gun (the Kannon) - if you think it's fine, I'll drop them down.

This is one case where I think you're just fine stealing base cost from the regular codex. Mounting a gun on a vehicle is a different animal from putting them in an artillery squad, since artillery squads really can't move.

Your Stompa is crazy, crazy good. He has more attacks than regular Stompas, for one, and way, way more options. (Plus, he’s now an Assault Vehicle for some reason, and he gets a 6+ Invuln.)

I'm thinking 50 pt cost increase?

50 pt increase, but also limit how many guns he can take, and bump up the cost of his Destroyer weapon. Stompas have never really come with four big guns - Even the Big Mek Stompa, currently the most gun-platformy of the bunch, gets three including the Belly Gun.

I’m not going to go into detail on the Supa Stompa, except to say that it’s far too durable for the cost, and that the Skrapborn Giant rule means that you can be effectively immune to shooting - You charge, voluntarily choose to stay locked in combat on the enemy turn, and then voluntarily break away on your turn. It’s just plain broken. (The loadout of the Stompa above, on this Dread, plus two more Power Fields and what extra weapons it can take, will beat most 2k armies all on its own.)

That's not the intent of Skrapborn Giant, but I guess it's not clear from the way it's written now - the intent was that you only decide once at the end of the first turn of the combat: either immediately withdraw, or stay bogged down until the end. Aside from that, I'll add that you only get this choice if you charge.
Same with the Gargant's Skrapborn Kolossus rule.

Might also drop the Kustom Powa Field to AV11.

I'd just change it to "You ALWAYS disengage from combat, except against Super Heavies/GMCs". That's how it worked in 5th edition, and it seems like the most sensible version of the rules to me - Why would it even be possible for a firing solution against a Gargant to be obscured by Guardsmen?
As for Kustom Powa Fields, why not just make them a little cheaper, make them a little more prevalent, and then make them work like normal Power Fields in the current rules? (That is, Av12, once they take a glancing/penetrating hit, they're just straight-up taken down.)

The changelist on the 1st post has been updated (finally!). I think the Battlescribe update will take a bit longer than originally thought, but the pdf should be fine for a release on the 25th.


Also, it seems I missed a Colonel17!

 Colonel17 wrote:
One thing i noticed is that vanilla Nob Mobs still have overpriced wargear. a Nob with Power Klaw is 45 pt while a Meganob with Power Klaw is only 40pt and has a better save, and can get a better gun for free. This is the biggest reason why I never use Nob Mobs with the current dex, and was a little disappointed to see it still here.

I totally get where you're coming from, but I'm reluctant to reduce the cost of these upgrades without there being some precident for it - i.e. are there any official dexes which do the same thing for their elite units?