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Hey all,

I recently bought Silver Tower and a box of Orruk/Orc Brutes. The models are fantastic, but I was quite surprised at how big they are. The humanoids in Silver Tower were a full head or more taller than other humanoid GW models I own (and Reaper, and WOTC, etc), and the Orc Brutes were so large that they're going to be quite the leap of faith to stick in with my other orc models - they'll probably end up as heroes or unit leaders. (I mostly play Kings of War, but AoS is fun too)

So has GW upscaled all their figures? Does anyone know if the Hobbit models are now a bit bigger, so for example they might be good to include in a human army comprised mostly of older GW figures? Years ago, the Hobbit/LOTR line used to be significantly smaller than their fantasy line.

Because the kits are so expensive, I'm not keen on experimenting... But can anyone shed some light, or point me to a discussion (photos would be cool!) of this? The models are beautiful, but I'm not interested in (nor able to afford...!) re-buying an entire army.

Thanks in advance!

Orruk Brutes are bigger than black orcs in the fluff, so that's intentional - Orruk boyz are still about, just too weedy to play this Ironjawz.
The humans in the ST box; the Darkoath Chieftain is a chaos champion, the warrior priest (iirc) is described as a 7ft giant, and the Stormcast is a super-human, so you'd expect them to be bigger.
The scale hasn't changed.
There are many that will argue a this, but the main thing I've noticed is that the models.have got bigger but not taller; not having to tesselate to rank up means the models can make far more interesting use of their X & Z axes.
The blood reavers are similar height to the old.chaos Marauders, and the Fyreslayers - allowing for tip-toe and big helmets - are similar size to the more recent dwarf models.
But all the new AoS minis have made far more use of their volume than previous editions, so they look bigger.

I would say yes, but in context. Like RoperPG said, the new releases that GW put out are on a Heroic scale. They are the Leaders, the Heroes or they are suppose to be bigger in the case of Orruks.

As for LotR, we don't know yet. No new kits are out and they so far seem to be releasing the same minis. So time will tell for LotR/The Hobbit ranges.

I guess we can go by the elves or Aelves in the Silver Tower box set. Are they bigger than normal? They seem a bit taller but that could be because they are standing on something to raise their height. They sure don't seem bigger, so I would say they are same scale.

RoperPG wrote:
Orruk Brutes are bigger than black orcs in the fluff, so that's intentional - Orruk boyz are still about, just too weedy to play this Ironjawz.
The humans in the ST box; the Darkoath Chieftain is a chaos champion, the warrior priest (iirc) is described as a 7ft giant, and the Stormcast is a super-human, so you'd expect them to be bigger.
The scale hasn't changed.
There are many that will argue a this, but the main thing I've noticed is that the models.have got bigger but not taller; not having to tesselate to rank up means the models can make far more interesting use of their X & Z axes.
The blood reavers are similar height to the old.chaos Marauders, and the Fyreslayers - allowing for tip-toe and big helmets - are similar size to the more recent dwarf models.
But all the new AoS minis have made far more use of their volume than previous editions, so they look bigger.

You realise you just confirmed they are, not aren't?

The scale hasn't changed - it's still all over the shop.

GW have never really been sticklers for scale.

Joyboozer wrote:

RoperPG wrote:
Orruk Brutes are bigger than black orcs in the fluff, so that's intentional - Orruk boyz are still about, just too weedy to play this Ironjawz.
The humans in the ST box; the Darkoath Chieftain is a chaos champion, the warrior priest (iirc) is described as a 7ft giant, and the Stormcast is a super-human, so you'd expect them to be bigger.
The scale hasn't changed.
There are many that will argue a this, but the main thing I've noticed is that the models.have got bigger but not taller; not having to tesselate to rank up means the models can make far more interesting use of their X & Z axes.
The blood reavers are similar height to the old.chaos Marauders, and the Fyreslayers - allowing for tip-toe and big helmets - are similar size to the more recent dwarf models.
But all the new AoS minis have made far more use of their volume than previous editions, so they look bigger.

You realise you just confirmed they are, not aren't?

Uh, no - they still appear to be on the same "standard human = 28mm" scale. That's what scale *is*. Relative size?

Joyboozer wrote:

RoperPG wrote:
Orruk Brutes are bigger than black orcs in the fluff, so that's intentional - Orruk boyz are still about, just too weedy to play this Ironjawz.
The humans in the ST box; the Darkoath Chieftain is a chaos champion, the warrior priest (iirc) is described as a 7ft giant, and the Stormcast is a super-human, so you'd expect them to be bigger.
The scale hasn't changed.
There are many that will argue a this, but the main thing I've noticed is that the models.have got bigger but not taller; not having to tesselate to rank up means the models can make far more interesting use of their X & Z axes.
The blood reavers are similar height to the old.chaos Marauders, and the Fyreslayers - allowing for tip-toe and big helmets - are similar size to the more recent dwarf models.
But all the new AoS minis have made far more use of their volume than previous editions, so they look bigger.

You realise you just confirmed they are, not aren't?

If you model a guy that's 7 feet in 28mm then if 28mm is 6 feet he should be 32mm tall model yes? So having model bigger than before doesn't mean scale is changed. What needs to be considered what size is represented.

I got myself bunch of plastic indians. Alas they are about head taller than my cowboys. Useless models? Yes and no. Can't really use all unless I want to represent tribe of giant indians where 7'2" or so is norm but few indians among taller guys actually just adds to realism. I need to seriously look up to 3 of my cousins(and I'm tad taller than average finn...). I have even ran into Japanese guy who was head taller than I am. If we were to be turned into miniatures I would be old FB model and he would be that warrior priest model

Might be more accurate to say GW hasn't changed the scale but HAVE changed kind of models they release. Rather than your average guys drafted into war they keep releasing more and more special guys because they want to release big overcrowded models because they are on idea bigger model with more detail is automatically better model.

I think there was some licensing reason for LOTR stuff to be in a different scale to avoid cross-usage between it and the WHFB line, so I suspect they'll remain consistent.

That said, the Perrys that did all the sculpting have left, so who knows what the new sculptor is capable of.

I don't think GW has been doing much scale creep with AoS, in that it's still all heroic 28mm (32mm?), it's just all the figures they've released are bigger in the fluff. Gone are the days of 6' infantry - everyone is a hulking 8' super warrior. Obviously, that doesn't help you fit figures in with other ranges.

Herzlos wrote:
I think there was some licensing reason for LOTR stuff to be in a different scale to avoid cross-usage between it and the WHFB line, so I suspect they'll remain consistent.

That said, the Perrys that did all the sculpting have left, so who knows what the new sculptor is capable of.

I don't think GW has been doing much scale creep with AoS, in that it's still all heroic 28mm (32mm?), it's just all the figures they've released are bigger in the fluff. Gone are the days of 6' infantry - everyone is a hulking 8' super warrior. Obviously, that doesn't help you fit figures in with other ranges.

As Herzlos and other have said, the actual scale has not changed (i.e. 30mm = 1800 mm or roughly 1:60) but most of the new models are per the setting buff super humans or demigod types. If you look at the fyreslayers and compare them to the 2014 Dwarf release it is pretty clear that they are using the same dolly (easily done with CAD) - the fyreslayers have mad huge hairstyles but there has not been any change in their physical body size.

The scale in 40k seemed to be creeping up as the chaos cultists and scions were both scaled to match each other and both significantly larger than older "standard humans".

Then admech and genestealer cult came out and both are much smaller again and more in keeping with older humanoids. I realise admech are barely human but fourth gen cultists are pretty close.

plessiez, the thing about the cultists is that they are touched by chaos. The models are clearly a little distorted by the powers. Hunchbacks with rippled muscles, people wearing four eyed masks, etc. They can take marks as well, so I think it's safe to say they're not average humans. Just as an IG is not a civilian, either. They have some pretty brutal training. But yeah, GW sculpts are... unreliable. Some loyalist marines are bigger than my chaos lord, while others are smaller than my sorceror from almost ten years ago. Whaddya do?

plessiez wrote:
The scale in 40k seemed to be creeping up as the chaos cultists and scions were both scaled to match each other and both significantly larger than older "standard humans".

Then admech and genestealer cult came out and both are much smaller again and more in keeping with older humanoids. I realise admech are barely human but fourth gen cultists are pretty close.

I don't think the Scions are markedly bigger than Guardsmen, just loaded up with more gear so they're bulkier.

Scale creep and GW are old friends, but I feel like things have been fairly consistent since 4th. AoS I can't really comment on, but they're big roided out dudes touched by the gods so they can kinda be as big as they wanna be.

The AoS models are significantly bigger...the bloodbound models are about as big as a 40k marine, the sigmarine models are about as big as a terminator. Some of the chaos cultists from dark vengeance are nearly as big as stock marines as well. It's less of a problem if you do some conversion but it can stand out on the table if you tend to notice that kind of thing.

As others have said, GW tends to be somewhat erratic with scale of their models, and new kits do tend to be bigger than old kits. I remember years ago I had a squad of metal CSM terminators painted up and I got the new plastic kit...it was a sad realization that the plastic arms parts would never be able to go on, or even be mixed in a unit with, the metal guys.

Herzlos wrote:
I everyone is a hulking 8' super warrior. Obviously, that doesn't help you fit figures in with other ranges.

I feel that way also... but I miss my lonely empire solider getting in a few good rolls before dying.. there is no "normal human" anymore in AoS

Making it look like empire is on its way out also...

-

Fisher001 wrote:

As others have said, GW tends to be somewhat erratic with scale of their models, and new kits do tend to be bigger than old kits. I remember years ago I had a squad of metal CSM terminators painted up and I got the new plastic kit...it was a sad realization that the plastic arms parts would never be able to go on, or even be mixed in a unit with, the metal guys.

That's how I felt when I found some of my old plastic terminators when they were on the smaller round bases. :(

I don't think scale has crept that much overall rather the models coming out in AoS so far are just proportioned differently compared to, say, a Empire Spearman. Yet, as others have said GW has never been super consistent with their Warhammer scaling from model to model. LoTR models had great proportions and sense of scale, but I wouldn't expect anything less from the Perry Brothers.

Yes for fantasy, every new sculpt so far is larger than the old ones, the real tester will be if they re do empire infantry and Aos them, if they are the same size then the above poster was correct and it's just the heroes that are big

Those of us who have been around for a while will confirm that yes indeed, everything in GW has upscaled and it's been an ongoing process for a couple decades now.

Compare the various decades of WHFB and AoS. There's a clear upward trend. Compare RT/2nd edition to 3rd edition, through 5th, etc. They've gotten much bigger. All this to say, they never really stopped upscaling.

As for LoTR, I can't speak to the entire hobbit line, but I have the hobbit starter set and the figs are notably bigger than anything else that came before it. The Dwarves in the set tower over LOTR dwarves and are about as big as some early WHFB humans!

I've had this sneaking suspicion for a while.

I'm used to playing Warcraft and WoW though and so it doesn't seem as odd to me as 'larger' heroes are common (I still don't know the reason for it and have never actually bothered to find out - perhaps I should)