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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/05 01:56:08
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Hi All!
Sorry please for my English, it's not my native language and I'm not good in linguistics, unfortunately. So, once again sorry.
What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
It's pretty wide question, which, for sure, contains innumerable sub-questions.
For example, is it legal for planetary government to enslave distinguishable part of planet's population (not criminals!) and then resell to the world's financial elite with the aim of making better economy using obtained money?
Can it be legal for owner in some planetary jurisdictions to kill privately held slave with no other reason than just because he finds murder joyful?
Etc., etc., etc...
What is the exact situation with slavery in the Imperium of Mankind? Which forms of slavery CAN be legal at least in the some parts of Empire?
And are there any forms of slavery which CAN NOT be legal nowhere in the Empire?
So, the status of slavery, very broad question.
Thanks. A lot! And sorry for my English, please.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/05 01:56:56
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/05 02:01:32
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Rampant, its on almost every planet id be willing to bet, but not that they consider it slavery, if your an abhuman or mutant, your quite likely to be a slave or some sort, also people must work in sub human standards and may even not get paid for it, so wage slavery.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/05 02:57:16
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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They are all slaves, the marines are ripped from their parents brain washed to worship a corpse emperor if they dont they die if they question they die. Absulte slavery of the galaxy.
It is a galaxy run by nazis of the extreme, your greatest feat is to die for a corpse who is nothing more then a rotten totem for those who truely lead the galaxy. The royal families stay in power and rule, the rest serve. If you doubt your are heretic and burn to make sure no one else makes that mistake.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/05 02:59:57
I need to go to work every day.
Millions of people on welfare depend on me. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/05 04:56:13
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Humorless Arbite
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First of all - A governor can do whatever he/she wants as long as they keep paying Tithes and don't break the Lex Imperialis.
The answer to murder is no - all human lives belong to the Emperor and if you kill one for no reason, you are stealing from the Emperor.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/05 04:59:43
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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Considering the Inquisition once sent off all emembers of a planet that witnessed a chaos incursion to work to death in offworld mines just on the off-hand one of them might be tainted, I gotta say that slavery is pretty widespread and even sanctioned.
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Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!
Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.
When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/05 05:01:36
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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The life of a human is seen as a resource.
So a man may own many of these resources, as long as be uses them.. Shall we say "wisely".
Using thirty slaves or indentured workers to run a factory would be seen as acceptable in many worlds. But using thirty slaves for sex and partying would be seen as wasteful, idle and borderline heretical.
Killing a slave for "fun" would very likely be seen as wasteful and criminal, like destroying a working vehicle or gun.
The morals would be less important than the waste.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/05 05:59:38
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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Slavery is everywhere. The Imperium of Man is a feudal society, so most of the population is going to be made up of slaves and serfs. Outright murder would probably be frowned upon. Wasting life is wasting the Emperor's resources and therefore a crime. Putting slaves in extremely dangerous work conditions that are 90% likely to kill them should be perfectly fine however. Killing slaves is perfectly fine as long as their deaths serve the Emperor in some way or another. And if less safety measures means higher industrial production, then working your slaves to death is even commendable. Human life is cheap, technology and machinery not so much.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/08/05 06:01:10
Error 404: Interesting signature not found
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/05 07:40:38
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Fixture of Dakka
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There are no slaves, everyone has the privilege to be chosen for beautiful jobs, to other planets in the navy, to be a cog (literally) in a forge world, to have the opportunity to kill filthy Xenus, be happy to serve the Emperor!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/05 08:18:29
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Pauper with Promise
Notts, UK
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Like most things fluff it depends!
1 - what is your definition of slavery? I would expect that most people's lives in the Imperium of Man would seem like slavery to 21st century eyes.
2 - where do you live in the Imperium? I expect the life of a Noble of Ultramar will be significantly different to a machine worker on a forgeworld, or a harvester on an agri-world, or one of the malformed tribesmen of Baal.
There definitely is money in the Imperium, and "normal" people have been shown to be able to have some, so there is payment for work (again whether it's sufficient payment would be seen through 21st century eyes). But there is also press-ganging by the Navy, hive scum sweeping by the IG, and forced lobotomisation and use as a servitor.
There will be a large number of people who do a job they want to do (or have been indoctrinated to want to do) like Inquisitors, Priests, Commissars (and their civilian equivalents) for example.
In terms of how people are treated on specific worlds - there is no overarching law given by the Imperium, it will be on a world-by-world basis. And given that the only rule that they have to follow is that the tithe must be fulfilled, I doubt that there is a great deal of micro-management beyond that. The "wasting" of human lives may be a "thing" amongst some members of the Administratum, Church, or Inquisition, but if a governor is supplying the tithe then there's little reason to interfere (unless the mass killings are a symptom of the worship of the Dark Gods - wittingly or otherwise).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/05 08:28:34
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Battleship Captain
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Certainly 'indenture' - a job you have no choice about, can't quit and aren't really paid for beyond food and lodgings - is pretty common and mentioned in numerous novels.
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Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/05 11:35:02
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
Warsaw
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On some planets it is more blatant, on some it's disguised as "doing one's sacred duty to the Imperium." Even Space Marines have slaves in the form of chapter serfs. Some treat them good, others treat them as expendable meat.
I always wondered how the Emperor looked upon this issue, being present during all the Terra's ages. I don't recall that much slaves in 30K source books/novels.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/05 11:37:26
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/05 11:39:28
Subject: Re:What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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it existis thank to the servitors. Besides as nearly every planet's doing whatever the feel like as long as the get the taxes paid, it would depend on it.
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40k: Necrons/Imperial Guard/ Space marines
Bolt Action: Germany/ USA
Project Z.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/05 15:36:05
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Slaves are the lucky ones at least they have dont have their brains lobotomised and aren't used as components for nearly any IoM apparatus.
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Inactive, user. New profile might pop up in a while |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/07 03:33:40
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
Adelaide, South Australia
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This is why I'm confused as to why the DE don't just buy slaves from the Imperium. A raid is going to cost you a certain amount of human lives and damage to resources. If you just give the DE roughly what they'd have killed/taken, then you save yourself the resource damage. Why risk the DE damaging production facilities if you can just buy them off?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/07 03:37:54
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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Kojiro wrote:This is why I'm confused as to why the DE don't just buy slaves from the Imperium. A raid is going to cost you a certain amount of human lives and damage to resources. If you just give the DE roughly what they'd have killed/taken, then you save yourself the resource damage. Why risk the DE damaging production facilities if you can just buy them off?
"Thou shalt have no truck with the Xeno."
While there's certainly a number of worlds in the Imperium remote enough, and mercenary enough, to sell humans to the Dark Eldar, a comparatively tiny number of people will have dealings with Xenos, even if those humans are criminals and such. Just because one is a criminal does not mean one does not have faith in the Creed, and believes in the admonishments set down by the Emperor against dealing with Xenos, Warp-craft, and such.
Dealing with Xenos is a good way to eventually draw the eye of the Adeptus Arbites and the Ordos of the Inquisition, nothing any criminal of any standing wants.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/07 06:35:11
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries
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Servitors. 'Nuff said.
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Sometimes I dream about cheese. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/07 21:27:09
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
Adelaide, South Australia
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Psienesis wrote:
"Thou shalt have no truck with the Xeno."
While there's certainly a number of worlds in the Imperium remote enough, and mercenary enough, to sell humans to the Dark Eldar, a comparatively tiny number of people will have dealings with Xenos, even if those humans are criminals and such. Just because one is a criminal does not mean one does not have faith in the Creed, and believes in the admonishments set down by the Emperor against dealing with Xenos, Warp-craft, and such.
Dealing with Xenos is a good way to eventually draw the eye of the Adeptus Arbites and the Ordos of the Inquisition, nothing any criminal of any standing wants.
Well I don't imagine any planetary governor being stupid enough to just outright sell the slaves to them directly. I imagine it would be concealed in some fashion. Slaves sold to a rogue trader or merchant fleet or some other proxy for the planet- create some space between the planetary authorities and the DE.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/07 21:38:32
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Confessor Of Sins
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Kojiro wrote:This is why I'm confused as to why the DE don't just buy slaves from the Imperium. A raid is going to cost you a certain amount of lives and damage to resources.
But buying slaves is civilized and frankly just not exciting. The dork eldar would rather collect them in a raid where they can also spread some pain and fear amongst the poor oo-mans. And if the would-be Archon on that other Raider (possibly his entire crew AND Raider) suffers an "accident" on the raid it's no loss to you, is it?
What I could see is a Governor etc making a deal where the defenders will be "too late" to save some remote outpost, but even that is a bit unlikely as the dorkdar prefer attacking remote places anyway.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/08 00:58:11
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Lesser Daemon of Chaos
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Xathrodox86 wrote:On some planets it is more blatant, on some it's disguised as "doing one's sacred duty to the Imperium." Even Space Marines have slaves in the form of chapter serfs. Some treat them good, others treat them as expendable meat.
I always wondered how the Emperor looked upon this issue, being present during all the Terra's ages. I don't recall that much slaves in 30K source books/novels.
It was definitely around. In the novel Fulgrim, The Iron Hands run down a nomadic coalition of Humans and various xenos that survived Old Night by banding together and avoiding conflict where possible. They try to flee but they are caught between the IH and the Emperor's Children. Ferrus demands that the humans turn on their alien allies and allow them to be destroyed. The humans refuse (not unreasonable when a 12 foot giant claims to be from earth and demands that you murder your friends) so Ferrus has all of the Xenos exterminated and the humans sold off as slave labour on other worlds.
The Emperor also didn't really seem to care much about slaves as he didn't help Angron's slave brothers, when it seems reasonable to assume that it was in his power to do so.
Servitors also seem like a form of slavery to me. Lobotomising someone to use for menial labour seems like slavery to me.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/08 01:15:08
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
Adelaide, South Australia
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Servitors, I'd argue, are more akin to a death sentence. They just keep some of your meat parts around to work but you are gone.
I could actually see something like forced organ/blood donation (unless artificial creation of such is easier) to assist in keeping the Emperor's armies fighting. Oh so you're not physically fit to fight? Fine, you can still give your blood for the Emperor's battles.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/08 01:26:31
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Lesser Daemon of Chaos
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Kojiro wrote:Servitors, I'd argue, are more akin to a death sentence. They just keep some of your meat parts around to work but you are gone.
I could actually see something like forced organ/blood donation (unless artificial creation of such is easier) to assist in keeping the Emperor's armies fighting. Oh so you're not physically fit to fight? Fine, you can still give your blood for the Emperor's battles.
Wouldn't be surprising as they do the exact same thing to psykers to keep the Emperor's beacon alive.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/08 03:05:07
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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Kojiro wrote: Psienesis wrote:
"Thou shalt have no truck with the Xeno."
While there's certainly a number of worlds in the Imperium remote enough, and mercenary enough, to sell humans to the Dark Eldar, a comparatively tiny number of people will have dealings with Xenos, even if those humans are criminals and such. Just because one is a criminal does not mean one does not have faith in the Creed, and believes in the admonishments set down by the Emperor against dealing with Xenos, Warp-craft, and such.
Dealing with Xenos is a good way to eventually draw the eye of the Adeptus Arbites and the Ordos of the Inquisition, nothing any criminal of any standing wants.
Well I don't imagine any planetary governor being stupid enough to just outright sell the slaves to them directly. I imagine it would be concealed in some fashion. Slaves sold to a rogue trader or merchant fleet or some other proxy for the planet- create some space between the planetary authorities and the DE.
Which, again, is all chances for something to happen and the Arbites or the Inquisition to catch wind of it. Just because one is a Rogue Trader does not mean one has the right to sell people to aliens (those are the Emperor's souls, after all) and, even if your Warrant of Trade does grant you the right to treat with Xenos, the sale of humans to them may raise the ire of the Inquisition who, at the end of the day, has more ships and bigger guns than you do.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/08 04:06:34
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Kojiro wrote:This is why I'm confused as to why the DE don't just buy slaves from the Imperium. A raid is going to cost you a certain amount of human lives and damage to resources. If you just give the DE roughly what they'd have killed/taken, then you save yourself the resource damage. Why risk the DE damaging production facilities if you can just buy them off?
That is assuming you can trade with the Dark Eldar. In the end, all Eldar view themselves as the only real people. All other races are treated like animals. Maybe amusing or useful animals, but still not as people deserving of the same level of respect or attention. Eldar who for whatever reason are sympathetic to other races could be viewed as animal lovers or activists. They are sympathetic and nice to animals, who are still not people, and if push came to shove, would still side with people (i.e. Eldar) albeit perhaps with some regret. Think of how for example animals are euthanized if they have already hurt people. Most animal lovers would still accept that as a regrettable but necessary move. The Eldar causing such events for other races, in order to preserve their own, could be likened to how today animals are culled in order to prevent the spread of disease. From the perspective of the animals, it is horrific and evil. From the perspective of the humans, it may be a regrettable, unfortunate, cruel but still necessary act.
People do not conduct trade relations as equals with wild animals. This is even more true for Dark Eldar who view themselves as having the right to take anything they want from these animals which they believe are running over rightful Eldar territory. Even if by some chance, an Eldar Corsair or Dark Eldar decides to conduct some sort of peaceful exchange, it would be subject to change depending on the whims of the Eldar. It would be like a game to them, and if they didn't like it or got bored of it they would change the rules. So it might happen, but the Eldar might not stay bought off. Or they might become insulted by the humans mispronouncing their names or some other breach of Eldar etiquette and decide to attack anyway (which is what happened in one Dark Eldar timeline entry with humans that tried to hire them). In the novel Path of the Outcast, the Eldar Corsairs did have a deal with the local human governor, to only attack a few sacrificial ships or the ships of his political opponents. Nobody broke either end of the deal for awhile and the Imperium was unaware, but the Eldar grew bored of the easy pickings and lack of excitement so they broke the deal because they wanted more action and loot, and because they objected to being bound by an agreement with a human as if they were his attack dogs for his opponents.
Dark Eldar also need more than just the lives of slaves. They feed off of the emotional and physical pain so inflicting terror by attacking and capturing slaves could be viewed as part of the "meal preparation" with entertainment thrown in as well. They would not get that flavor if they were just handed slaves. That might be like the choice between a lavish tasty feast with a floor show vs. a bland bowl of porridge.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/08/08 04:13:15
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/08 09:28:35
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Lesser Daemon of Chaos
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Iracundus wrote: Kojiro wrote:This is why I'm confused as to why the DE don't just buy slaves from the Imperium. A raid is going to cost you a certain amount of human lives and damage to resources. If you just give the DE roughly what they'd have killed/taken, then you save yourself the resource damage. Why risk the DE damaging production facilities if you can just buy them off?
That is assuming you can trade with the Dark Eldar. In the end, all Eldar view themselves as the only real people. All other races are treated like animals. Maybe amusing or useful animals, but still not as people deserving of the same level of respect or attention. Eldar who for whatever reason are sympathetic to other races could be viewed as animal lovers or activists. They are sympathetic and nice to animals, who are still not people, and if push came to shove, would still side with people (i.e. Eldar) albeit perhaps with some regret. Think of how for example animals are euthanized if they have already hurt people. Most animal lovers would still accept that as a regrettable but necessary move. The Eldar causing such events for other races, in order to preserve their own, could be likened to how today animals are culled in order to prevent the spread of disease. From the perspective of the animals, it is horrific and evil. From the perspective of the humans, it may be a regrettable, unfortunate, cruel but still necessary act.
People do not conduct trade relations as equals with wild animals. This is even more true for Dark Eldar who view themselves as having the right to take anything they want from these animals which they believe are running over rightful Eldar territory. Even if by some chance, an Eldar Corsair or Dark Eldar decides to conduct some sort of peaceful exchange, it would be subject to change depending on the whims of the Eldar. It would be like a game to them, and if they didn't like it or got bored of it they would change the rules. So it might happen, but the Eldar might not stay bought off. Or they might become insulted by the humans mispronouncing their names or some other breach of Eldar etiquette and decide to attack anyway (which is what happened in one Dark Eldar timeline entry with humans that tried to hire them). In the novel Path of the Outcast, the Eldar Corsairs did have a deal with the local human governor, to only attack a few sacrificial ships or the ships of his political opponents. Nobody broke either end of the deal for awhile and the Imperium was unaware, but the Eldar grew bored of the easy pickings and lack of excitement so they broke the deal because they wanted more action and loot, and because they objected to being bound by an agreement with a human as if they were his attack dogs for his opponents.
Dark Eldar also need more than just the lives of slaves. They feed off of the emotional and physical pain so inflicting terror by attacking and capturing slaves could be viewed as part of the "meal preparation" with entertainment thrown in as well. They would not get that flavor if they were just handed slaves. That might be like the choice between a lavish tasty feast with a floor show vs. a bland bowl of porridge.
In Anthony Reynold's second Word Bearers novel, there is a Tyranid invasion of a system in progress. There is an unscrupulous ship captain who is charging the planetary aristocracy extortionate fees to evacuate off world, but is then selling them off to Dark Eldar slavers. Eventually of course, when he's brought up his last load of refugees, they double cross him and his crew and enslave them as well.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/08 10:33:52
Subject: What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
Warsaw
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KorPhaeron77 wrote: Xathrodox86 wrote:On some planets it is more blatant, on some it's disguised as "doing one's sacred duty to the Imperium." Even Space Marines have slaves in the form of chapter serfs. Some treat them good, others treat them as expendable meat.
I always wondered how the Emperor looked upon this issue, being present during all the Terra's ages. I don't recall that much slaves in 30K source books/novels.
It was definitely around. In the novel Fulgrim, The Iron Hands run down a nomadic coalition of Humans and various xenos that survived Old Night by banding together and avoiding conflict where possible. They try to flee but they are caught between the IH and the Emperor's Children. Ferrus demands that the humans turn on their alien allies and allow them to be destroyed. The humans refuse (not unreasonable when a 12 foot giant claims to be from earth and demands that you murder your friends) so Ferrus has all of the Xenos exterminated and the humans sold off as slave labour on other worlds.
The Emperor also didn't really seem to care much about slaves as he didn't help Angron's slave brothers, when it seems reasonable to assume that it was in his power to do so.
Servitors also seem like a form of slavery to me. Lobotomising someone to use for menial labour seems like slavery to me.
Ahhh yes, now I remember. Man, good thing that Ferrus finally got what was coming to him then.
I always found that strange - the thing about Angron. So much could've changed, if Emps would have only acted differently.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/08/16 23:20:34
Subject: Re:What is the status of human slavery in the WH40K universe?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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The Emperor also didn't really seem to care much about slaves as he didn't help Angron's slave brothers, when it seems reasonable to assume that it was in his power to do so.
This really says a lot about the Imperium. The Emperor wouldn't help his son because a Primarch helping a slave rebellion would be a form of heresy. If he had actually succeeded before the Emperor got there the Emperor probably would have killed him. Think about it the Imperium is founded on slavery. I don't get how people think that Russ out argued Angron when Angron hit the nail on the head saying that the Emperor only understood slavery. If Angron had won it would have triggered rebellions across the Imperium, probably even on the ships of the world eaters he was about to inherit and he probably would have been more inclined to side with them than his own legion who he hated.
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