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What the hell is with Americans fixation on the government becoming tyrannical if they intervene in any market at all? Every country in the west is far more liberal and has far more government oversight and programs, but I don't think anyone would say Canada or Grest Britain is tyrannical at all.
I mean, I'm sitting up here in Canada with my health care program, and it turns out the Government isn't taking all of my civil liberties away and enforcing curfews.
Edit: it's actually gotten to the point where I see anyone who uses 'cause tyranny!' As an argument against a government program like health care or gay rights bills are just morons.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/09/11 08:29:11
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
Just been reading in the newspapers that the guy who shot Reagan got out of jail yesterday after 35 years
Is that a wise move?
Anybody who shot one president wouldn't have any qualms about shooting another president.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Crazyterran wrote: What the hell is with Americans fixation on the government becoming tyrannical if they intervene in any market at all? Every country in the west is far more liberal and has far more government oversight and programs, but I don't think anyone would say Canada or Grest Britain is tyrannical at all.
I mean, I'm sitting up here in Canada with my health care program, and it turns out the Government isn't taking all of my civil liberties away and enforcing curfews.
Edit: it's actually gotten to the point where I see anyone who uses 'cause tyranny!' As an argument against a government program like health care or gay rights bills are just morons.
I wouldn't be so sure about Britain. We have an unelected Head of State, Unelected second chamber, and an unelected Prime Minister. There's more CCTV camera watching us than any other country, and some people are actively trying to overturn the EU referendum, because they didn't like the result. I don't think I live in a democracy...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/11 09:20:31
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Just been reading in the newspapers that the guy who shot Reagan got out of jail yesterday after 35 years
Is that a wise move? .
Former President Reagan is not really in any danger one would suggest.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Just been reading in the newspapers that the guy who shot Reagan got out of jail yesterday after 35 years
Is that a wise move? .
Former President Reagan is not really in any danger one would suggest.
If I were to use the word really, as a response, every sarcasm detector on Earth would explode!
Of course I know Reagan's dead - who do you think I am?
I was merely making the point, that in this highly charged atmosphere of bitterness between Trump and Clinton, it would be unwise to let somebody with a track record of shooting a president, back on the streets.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/09/11 12:37:07
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Libertarians are fiscally conservative and socially liberal so if they gain membership by attracting conservative defectors from the Republican Party it puts more conservatives on the right side ( ugh sorry no pun intended) of social issues like gay marriage and public bathrooms which is a good thing.
The conservatives the Party attracts probably aren't going to stop being conservative and will likely drag the Party towards social conservatism. Gary Johnson himself is a hair's breadth away from being a stereotypical pro-life candidate. Rand Paul, a Tea Party darling, is very much socially conservative and Ron isn't far off.
Crazyterran wrote: What the hell is with Americans fixation on the government becoming tyrannical if they intervene in any market at all?
In short, years of glorifying and romanticizing the Revolution, the Civil War, etc., have resulted in this weird stubbornly independent streak of paranoia that makes some people believe that government is evil, more so than anywhere else in the world. Add in how politicians continually build up various cultural/societal bogeymen to scare their voters into thinking the "other side" wants to take their freedom and/or rights away, and that's how we're at where we are now with a lot of dumb voters who don't actually think for themselves. If more people followed George Carlin's example, we would be better off for it:
Libertarians are fiscally conservative and socially liberal so if they gain membership by attracting conservative defectors from the Republican Party it puts more conservatives on the right side ( ugh sorry no pun intended) of social issues like gay marriage and public bathrooms which is a good thing.
The conservatives the Party attracts probably aren't going to stop being conservative and will likely drag the Party towards social conservatism.
The unfortunate problem is that the two parties have invested too much time and money into dividing the populace over social issues to allow the Libertarian party to get major traction. Let's face it, which issue gets more butts in the voting booths: who can marry who vs. keeping our bridges/highways maintained? And which one is actually the important one that matters to the continued well-being of the country?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/09/11 16:00:40
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
Libertarians are fiscally conservative and socially liberal so if they gain membership by attracting conservative defectors from the Republican Party it puts more conservatives on the right side ( ugh sorry no pun intended) of social issues like gay marriage and public bathrooms which is a good thing.
The conservatives the Party attracts probably aren't going to stop being conservative and will likely drag the Party towards social conservatism. Gary Johnson himself is a hair's breadth away from being a stereotypical pro-life candidate. Rand Paul, a Tea Party darling, is very much socially conservative and Ron isn't far off.
Crazyterran wrote: What the hell is with Americans fixation on the government becoming tyrannical if they intervene in any market at all?
In short, years of glorifying and romanticizing the Revolution, the Civil War, etc., have resulted in this weird stubbornly independent streak of paranoia that makes some people believe that government is evil, more so than anywhere else in the world. Add in how politicians continually build up various cultural/societal bogeymen to scare their voters into thinking the "other side" wants to take their freedom and/or rights away, and that's how we're at where we are now with a lot of dumb voters who don't actually think for themselves. If more people followed George Carlin's example, we would be better off for it:
Libertarians are fiscally conservative and socially liberal so if they gain membership by attracting conservative defectors from the Republican Party it puts more conservatives on the right side ( ugh sorry no pun intended) of social issues like gay marriage and public bathrooms which is a good thing.
The conservatives the Party attracts probably aren't going to stop being conservative and will likely drag the Party towards social conservatism.
The unfortunate problem is that the two parties have invested too much time and money into dividing the populace over social issues to allow the Libertarian party to get major traction. Let's face it, which issue gets more butts in the voting booths: who can marry who vs. keeping our bridges/highways maintained? And which one is actually the important one that matters to the continued well-being of the country?
It's not my intention to turn this into a gun thread, and I've probably said this to you, whembly or Frazz before, but as you know, a lot of people in the USA care deeply for their 2nd amendment rights, and campaign hard to keep them, which is fair enough...
BUT
The 4th amendment has been torn to shreds in recent years, and nobody seems to bat an eyelid. Nobody is screaming tyrannical government.
It's all very strange to an outsider like me.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
whembly wrote: If you think we haven't been fighting for our 4th amendment... then, you are sorely mistaken.
What gave you that idea?
The reaction to the Snowden revelations. There seemed to be a collective shrug from the majority of Americans. That's my interpretation, anyway.
I know the ACLU does a lot of work for the 1st amendment, but the 4th seems to be an afterthought. Obviously, you being American and in America, you have an advantage over me, but from my reading of American newspapers and watching the American news, the 4th being trampled on doesn't seem to be a big deal to ordinary Americans, which is a shame...
The 4th has its roots in ancient English rights which are hundreds of years old, so it's worth fighting for...
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Crazyterran wrote: What the hell is with Americans fixation on the government becoming tyrannical if they intervene in any market at all? Every country in the west is far more liberal and has far more government oversight and programs, but I don't think anyone would say Canada or Grest Britain is tyrannical at all.
I mean, I'm sitting up here in Canada with my health care program, and it turns out the Government isn't taking all of my civil liberties away and enforcing curfews.
Edit: it's actually gotten to the point where I see anyone who uses 'cause tyranny!' As an argument against a government program like health care or gay rights bills are just morons.
It isn't just about the market. It's across the board. In the United States, people have a healthy distrust of the Federal Government, and with good reason (both within our own history and in examples from world history).
But I do agree that sometimes, in some quarters, it gets out of hand and veers into the realm of tinfoil hats and mind control beams.
whembly wrote: If you think we haven't been fighting for our 4th amendment... then, you are sorely mistaken.
What gave you that idea?
The reaction to the Snowden revelations. There seemed to be a collective shrug from the majority of Americans. That's my interpretation, anyway.
Snowden is a traitor and is treated as such.
However, his revelation on things like PRISM, yes we were roundly outraged about it.
I know the ACLU does a lot of work for the 1st amendment, but the 4th seems to be an afterthought. Obviously, you being American and in America, you have an advantage over me, but from my reading of American newspapers and watching the American news, the 4th being trampled on doesn't seem to be a big deal to ordinary Americans, which is a shame...
The 4th has its roots in ancient English rights which are hundreds of years old, so it's worth fighting for...
The ACLU is known to fight for the 4th amendment... probably even over the 1st amendment rights.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: The 4th amendment has been torn to shreds in recent years, and nobody seems to bat an eyelid. Nobody is screaming tyrannical government.
That's easy enough to answer: "or else the terrorists win" or "tough on crime" or any other useless political platitude that gets trotted out to make us feel we need to be kept safe from the bad things in the world.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
whembly wrote: Breibart is the opposite end of MediaMatters/TPM of the world. They both give me heebeejeebees.
Clearly it doesn't bother you enough since you've admitted to following one of their key douchebags on Twitter.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
The unfortunate problem is that the two parties have invested too much time and money into dividing the populace over social issues to allow the Libertarian party to get major traction.
I think the populace did that on its own, and the political Parties took advantage. One of my main issues with US politics is that the people consistently look for someone else to blame when, in reality, it is all on them. Conservatives are the worst about this.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/09/11 18:01:10
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
The Confederate battle flag, while having been used by fringe groups in the 20th Century, is not a racist symbol in and within itself. That was a case of the Clinton appealing to the blue collar types in a Southern State.
But I will agree that both Bill and Hillary have a long history, especially during their time in the Arkansas governor's mansion, of uttering racist remarks and ethnic slurs. Bill was notorious for dropping N-bombs in private and Hillary was known to have slurred off on the Jews on several occasions. When she was First Lady and Secretary of State, she was notorious at heaping profanity-laced, verbal abuse on White House staff and Secret Service agents.
In my mind, the only difference between her and Trump, is that Trump is open about his talking, while Hillary does it behind closed doors and denies it.
talking, while Hillary does it behind closed doors and denies it.