US Politics

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**Breotan**

sirlynchmob wrote:
Spinner wrote:
Is it November 9th yet? Can we just fast-forward two and a half weeks, please?

well the walking dead starts tomorrow, should be epic, quite unlike the presidential debates

prepare for a week of trump meme's being replaced with "NOOOOOOO not that person, why him?"

I'm waiting for the parody video where Negan is replaced with Trump talking about all the great things he's going to do.

**AlmightyWalrus**

SemperMortis wrote:
Just as a friendly reminder though, this forum is very left leaning, these same people who are SURE Trump won't win are the same ones who were SURE Brexit wouldn't happen. Anyway, good luck to you all.

As an equally friendly reminder, what the US considers "left-leaning" is not the same as what the rest of the world considers "left-leaning".

**wuestenfux**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Just as a friendly reminder though, this forum is very left leaning, these same people who are SURE Trump won't win are the same ones who were SURE Brexit wouldn't happen. Anyway, good luck to you all.

As an equally friendly reminder, what the US considers "left-leaning" is not the same as what the rest of the world considers "left-leaning".

Well, even the leader of the brexit campagn, Boris J., couldnt think that brexit would happen. I agree that this is the same with Trump.

**Ouze**

I don't think it's a great analogy for a lot of reasons. All things being equal, I think it's very unlikely Trump will win.

**BigWaaagh**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Just as a friendly reminder though, this forum is very left leaning, these same people who are SURE Trump won't win are the same ones who were SURE Brexit wouldn't happen. Anyway, good luck to you all.

As an equally friendly reminder, what the US considers "left-leaning" is not the same as what the rest of the world considers "left-leaning".

You got that right! Our black and white system right now needs some shades of grey for options and to better reflect the electorate. I think this election cycle may be seeing the beginning of that, fingers crossed. It's needs to start locally and state level and hopefully start influencing the bigger races down the road.

**A Town Called Malus**

Just browsing through Last Week Tonight videos on youtube and came across one which covered something I hadn't heard about at all before, admittedly from quite a while ago.

Is it still the case that DC has no voting representation in Congress despite all their local laws and budget requiring congressional approval? Because that is seriously messed up.

**BigWaaagh**

SemperMortis wrote:
BigWaaagh wrote:

Wow! You mean the intelligence community didn't come out and spell out all the who, how and where they accumulated the data? Covert intelligence gathering mechanisms not revealing themselves? That's crazy! What's next? That's your determining factor for it being flimsy? Both candidates already briefed on the situation. Yeah, sorry, you're alone on this.

I love your mentioning that one of Trump's ideas "is a solid one". Unfortunately, it hardly comes close to deflecting the sheer heinous nature of the man. It's like pointing to a broken watch, at one of the two times a day when it's correct, and saying "See, what an accurate time piece."

Well as someone who has worked in the IC I do find it rather odd that they didn't identify which agency came out with the intelligence. Also, I have watched solid intelligence products get shot down because they didn't jive with the higher ups opinions, so sorry, I tend to take things with a grain of salt.

I keep forgetting about how this forum operates. Anyone remotely right of center who posts something remotely right of center gets ganged up on and their opinions shot down.

Usually this revolves around people claiming

1: If your information came from a very valid source they respond with "Well its wrong because I feel..." Or "Your wrong because this persons blog or unreliable left wing news agency says so".
2: If your information comes from a borderline valid source: "Haha you think they are reliable how cute"
3: If you state an opinion without posting a source: Shot down ruthlessly, constantly hounded to provide a source.

Then when you apply that same logic and reasoning to their posts you get ganged up on again by those same people who call you a conspiracy theorist for not listening to their own opinions.

Well I am going to tip my hat to this specific forum and head back over to 40k where at least facts can be backed up consistently with math. Just as a friendly reminder though, this forum is very left leaning, these same people who are SURE Trump won't win are the same ones who were SURE Brexit wouldn't happen. Anyway, good luck to you all.

Okay, names are needed I guess? This article I cited earlier in this thread notes 17 Intelligence Agencies pointing the finger directly at Russian hacking involvement. "On Oct. 7, the Department of Homeland Security and Office of the Director of National Intelligence issued a joint statement on behalf of the U.S. Intelligence Community. The USIC is made up of 16 agencies, in addition to the Office of the Director of National Intelligence." There's a couple names for you. Full article below...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/10/21/17-intelligence-agencies-russia-behind-hacking/92514592/

**Ouze**

I'm going to need a video of Vladimir Putin at a keyboard hacking, while humming the Hackers theme song, while holding 2 forms of government ID, while the CIA is watching, while Alpharius, Reds8n, RiTides, and Kilkrazy are taking notes, and Vera Putina needs to be there to confirm his identity.

**djones520**

Ouze wrote:
I'm going to need a video of Vladimir Putin at a keyboard hacking, while humming the Hackers theme song, while holding 2 forms of government ID, while the CIA is watching, while Alpharius, Reds8n, RiTides, and Kilkrazy are taking notes, and Vera Putina needs to be there to confirm his identity.

Who is going to confirm Vera Putina's identity?

**d-usa**

djones520 wrote:
Ouze wrote:
I'm going to need a video of Vladimir Putin at a keyboard hacking, while humming the Hackers theme song, while holding 2 forms of government ID, while the CIA is watching, while Alpharius, Reds8n, RiTides, and Kilkrazy are taking notes, and Vera Putina needs to be there to confirm his identity.

Who is going to confirm Vera Putina's identity?

The hacker named 4chan.

**BaronIveagh**

BigWaaagh wrote:

 SECOND, I will announce our withdrawal from the Trans-Pacific Partnership

Strangely, this is actually the single thing I agree with Trump on. The benefits do not outweigh the costs on this one. That says something when it grants the type of access you mention.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

A Town Called Malus wrote:
Because that is seriously messed up.

Welcome to the US Federal Government, where they can force you to work with 'deferred' pay during a shutdown because your work is deemed 'essential' and employees lose their jobs if they get heard talking about the election over the water cooler at work.

**TheAuldGrump**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Just as a friendly reminder though, this forum is very left leaning, these same people who are SURE Trump won't win are the same ones who were SURE Brexit wouldn't happen. Anyway, good luck to you all.

As an equally friendly reminder, what the US considers "left-leaning" is not the same as what the rest of the world considers "left-leaning".

Heck, what some of the more... strident... Republicans call 'left-leaning' is not the same as what the rest of the US consider 'left-leaning'. (There were folks calling Trump a 'New York Liberal'.)

The Auld Grump

**Ensis Ferrae**

TheAuldGrump wrote:
Heck, what some of the more... strident... Republicans call 'left-leaning' is not the same as what the rest of the US consider 'left-leaning'. (There were folks calling Trump a 'New York Liberal'.)

The Auld Grump

Ya know, there once was a time where labels like New York Liberal or West Coast Liberal actually meant something, but with the sort of solidifying of party platforms that has gone on, they remain seemingly only to serve as insults.

**BigWaaagh**

djones520 wrote:
Ouze wrote:
I'm going to need a video of Vladimir Putin at a keyboard hacking, while humming the Hackers theme song, while holding 2 forms of government ID, while the CIA is watching, while Alpharius, Reds8n, RiTides, and Kilkrazy are taking notes, and Vera Putina needs to be there to confirm his identity.

Who is going to confirm Vera Putina's identity?

Notary needs to be present.

**djones520**

BigWaaagh wrote:
djones520 wrote:
Ouze wrote:
I'm going to need a video of Vladimir Putin at a keyboard hacking, while humming the Hackers theme song, while holding 2 forms of government ID, while the CIA is watching, while Alpharius, Reds8n, RiTides, and Kilkrazy are taking notes, and Vera Putina needs to be there to confirm his identity.

Who is going to confirm Vera Putina's identity?

Notary needs to be present.

An agent of the state. I knew it. Can't trust any of it.

**LordofHats**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
Just browsing through Last Week Tonight videos on youtube and came across one which covered something I hadn't heard about at all before, admittedly from quite a while ago.

Is it still the case that DC has no voting representation in Congress despite all their local laws and budget requiring congressional approval? Because that is seriously messed up.

I was in DC just the other week on a school trip and the Taxi in front of me had a license plate with the words; "Taxation without Representation."

Though technically they are represented in Congress, but like the territories their representative has no voting rights.

**Agiel**

Speaking of hacks, a grey hat by the pseudonym "Jester" has managed to hack into and deface the Russian foreign ministry's website in an apparent retaliation for the recent DYN hacks and attempts to sabotage the presidential election:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/22/technology/russian-foreign-ministry-hacked/

Dude was apparently a four tour vet in Afghanistan, here's a picture

**BigWaaagh**

Agiel wrote:
Speaking of hacks, a grey hat by the pseudonym "Jester" has managed to hack into and deface the Russian foreign ministry's website in an apparent retaliation for the recent DYN hacks and attempts to sabotage the presidential election:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/22/technology/russian-foreign-ministry-hacked/

Dude was apparently a four tour vet in Afghanistan, here's a picture

No surprise. Eldar are masters of the webway!

**Peregrine**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
Is it still the case that DC has no voting representation in Congress despite all their local laws and budget requiring congressional approval? Because that is seriously messed up.

It's true, but they do have a local government even if congress technically has the final say. Also, remember that DC is a mid-size city at most and the federal government is, aside from tourism related to the federal government, all there really is for industry. It may be somewhat unfair, but on the scale of unfairness it's not a big deal.

**A Town Called Malus**

Peregrine wrote:
A Town Called Malus wrote:
Is it still the case that DC has no voting representation in Congress despite all their local laws and budget requiring congressional approval? Because that is seriously messed up.

It's true, but they do have a local government even if congress technically has the final say. Also, remember that DC is a mid-size city at most and the federal government is, aside from tourism related to the federal government, all there really is for industry. It may be somewhat unfair, but on the scale of unfairness it's not a big deal.

DC has a larger population than Wyoming and Vermont, who both have full status as a state.

**Kilkrazy**

Is this a major concern in US politics? It seems to me that the special status of DC was fixed hundreds of years ago and people who wanted to be represented by a senator and so on wouldn't live there if they were especially concerned about the point.

There are bigger fish to fry, etc...

**Co'tor Shas**

It's one of the reasons I favor tossing the EC. If it was pure popular votes, than people, full US citizens mind, who live in DC and Puerto Rico would at least have a voice in presidential elections. Currently we have this weird system where US citizens living in US territory can't vote, but US citizens living in other countries can via absentee ballots.

**LordofHats**

Kilkrazy wrote:
Is this a major concern in US politics? It seems to me that the special status of DC was fixed hundreds of years ago and people who wanted to be represented by a senator and so on wouldn't live there if they were especially concerned about the point.

There are bigger fish to fry, etc...

I would agree that there are bigger fish to fry. It's not a major hot topic issue. It's a very local concern. Most of the rest of the country doesn't even know about it.

... who live in DC and Puerto Rico would at least have a voice in presidential elections ... Currently we have this weird system where US citizens living in US territory can't vote, but US citizens living in other countries can via absentee ballots.

Citizens in DC do vote in presidential elections... (DC is specifically granted 3 Electoral votes by the 23rd Amendment allow them to vote on who is President/Vice President even though they lack actual congressional representation). You are correct that once the primaries end, Citizens in US territories like Puerto Rico and Guam have no voting rights for Federal elections (EDIT: Though this could also be resolved simply by granting the territories Electoral College seats).

**Co'tor Shas**

Oh, I didn't actually know that. But yeah, people who live in PR, Guam, ect are really fethed over. 3.6M people live in PR, and have no representation beyond a non-voting member in the house.

**sirlynchmob**

LordofHats wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
Is this a major concern in US politics? It seems to me that the special status of DC was fixed hundreds of years ago and people who wanted to be represented by a senator and so on wouldn't live there if they were especially concerned about the point.

There are bigger fish to fry, etc...

I would agree that there are bigger fish to fry. It's not a major hot topic issue. It's a very local concern. Most of the rest of the country doesn't even know about it.

... who live in DC and Puerto Rico would at least have a voice in presidential elections ... Currently we have this weird system where US citizens living in US territory can't vote, but US citizens living in other countries can via absentee ballots.

Citizens in DC do vote in presidential elections... (DC is specifically granted 3 Electoral votes by the 23rd Amendment allow them to vote on who is President/Vice President even though they lack actual congressional representation). You are correct that once the primaries end, Citizens in US territories like Puerto Rico and Guam have no voting rights for Federal elections (EDIT: Though this could also be resolved simply by granting the territories Electoral College seats).

or statehood. puero rico's been seeking it for quite some time now. when I lived on guam I got the impression they preferred being a territory, they don't have to pay federal taxes, yet get federal aid every time a typhoon levels the place.

**Kilkrazy**

I thought Puerto Rico had a plebiscite on a similar issue a few years ago, and came to the conclusion that they are better off to get the money without having to pay the taxes even if it means they don't elect a Senator.

As said above, though, it would be easily solved by granting Statehood.

**LordofHats**

Kilkrazy wrote:
I thought Puerto Rico had a plebiscite on a similar issue a few years ago, and came to the conclusion that they are better off to get the money without having to pay the taxes even if it means they don't elect a Senator.

As said above, though, it would be easily solved by granting Statehood.

This is true, but indications are that Puerto Rico will formally request state hood sometime in the near future (10-15 years). The Statehood movement keeps growing, and each time a referendum or poll is held on the issue, it gets closer and closer. When that happens I suspect it will be a big issue among politics, though the country at large probably won't debate it as much. New states have traditionally been major political shake ups.

Hmm. We'll need a new flag...

**AdeptSister**

DC residents have been complaining about lack of voting representation for forever. The part they are really annoyed about is that Congress has to approve their budget and can override the will of the residents. DC voted for medical Marijuana in the 90s and it was overridden. They recently decriminalized Marijuana, but congress refuses to allow it to be regulated (so no taxing or legal distribution.)

Also, technically, any Federal Government shutdowns also shutdown DC (unless the major declares everyone essential personnel. Congress also uses them as a political chip.

It's messy, but not one outside DC cares enough to do something... *Shrug* So it goes...

**Relapse**

LordofHats wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
I thought Puerto Rico had a plebiscite on a similar issue a few years ago, and came to the conclusion that they are better off to get the money without having to pay the taxes even if it means they don't elect a Senator.

As said above, though, it would be easily solved by granting Statehood.

This is true, but indications are that Puerto Rico will formally request state hood sometime in the near future (10-15 years). The Statehood movement keeps growing, and each time a referendum or poll is held on the issue, it gets closer and closer. When that happens I suspect it will be a big issue among politics, though the country at large probably won't debate it as much. New states have traditionally been major political shake ups.

Hmm. We'll need a new flag...

It was pretty ugly the time I was down there and statehood election was going on, with people running out of their homes to shake their fists at us. People were getting killed and Cubans were on the island stirring things up.

**BigWaaagh**

I think the Trump/Putin love camel needs another straw on it's back...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-aides-tied-to-firm-that-wanted-to-help-russia-spy/ar-AAjj7HE?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=ASUDHP