US Politics

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**Smacks**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
Me and a friend are currently discussing moving to the Andromeda Galaxy, if you're interested. Currently deciding what board games will be most suitable to play in a zero-g environment. So far we have Twister and Jenga. Zero-g Battlefleet Gothic would be pretty damn cool though, could actually play it with 3-dimensional movement.

Oddly, I've thought about that before... Interesting fact: even though the Andromeda galaxy is ~2.5 Million light years away, if you were able to accelerate to almost the speed of light for half the journey, and then decelerate for the other half, the entire journey would only take about 80 years, because of time dilation.

I suggest bringing Diplomacy, since I've never actually managed to finish a game. 80 years locked in a confined space might be enough of an incentive to finally finish one though. And obviously, I'm not leaving Earth without my X-Wing stuffs.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Witzkatz wrote:
Just to elaborate on the impact this election has and will continue to have: Here in Germany, lots of people in my social circle stayed up all night, watching the polls. There was no other topic this morning in the university either, with reactions ranging from vague apprehension to people fuming and ranting and bein at a loss for words. So far, I haven't seen or talked to anyone here that wanted Trump to become president. People here care a lot, because everyone is aware of the large impact the POTUS has on global politics and alliances.

After the Brexit vote, I realized that a Trump presidency was not completely far off. Many countries in the Western world seem to have large blocks of frustrated voters, taking any candidate or proposal to challenge "the system". I'm just hoping our newly emerged far-right party here in Germany (AfD) won't be able to continue in this direction during the next elections, too...

I liked Stephen Colbert's youtube video that was uploaded two hours ago or so. I recommend watching it, especially after two years of political campaigns breathing down your neck.

I am a big fan of Germany, have visited many times, and with the exception of the poetry of Heinrich Heine,

I like German culture.

After Brexit, nothing really has changed for Germany. It's still there, and it continues to have a close relationship with Great Britain. Long may that last.

Point is, Germany will be fine even with Trump as president....

Automatically Appended Next Post:

generalgrog wrote:
The American people just gave a big middle finger to washington DC. By electing Trump and rejecting Clinton part Deux, they just took a political baseball bat to the political class.

The people on here that are bemoaning the election of Trump dont really understand the anger and frustration the American people hold right now.

GG

In many ways, it's a vindication of democracy. A huge turn out, and the USA elected the son of a poor Scottish immigrant as President.

The American dream alive and well?

**Co'tor Shas**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Co'tor Shas wrote:
So she won tge popular but lost the EC? It's crazy that this has happened twice in the last two decades. You'd almost think that it's ans outated system thwt no longer works...

It's not outdated, it was deliberately designed that way to stop the 'fury of democracy,' the mob rule, from engulfing the new Republic.

Well, considering that the complete opposite has has happened, I don't think so. Back when it was legilatures that selected the electors, sure, but if the people select them, then this gak happens.

**Psienesis**

Which is why I blame the DNC. They got a lot of young voters, new voters, and old-but-non-particpating voters fired up over Sanders, and then expected those people, who had not been members of the Democratic Party prior to this election, to back their establishment candidate.

The American people are tired of establishment politics. That's been clear for a very long time now. The DNC, for whatever-fething-reason, presented an establishment candidate and expected the party to fall in line behind it. That, obviously, did not happen, and was never going to happen.

**LordofHats**

generalgrog wrote:
The American people just gave a big middle finger to washington DC. By electing Trump and rejecting Clinton part Deux, they just took a political baseball bat to the political class.

The people on here that are bemoaning the election of Trump dont really understand the anger and frustration the American people hold right now.

GG

Under no conception of the term is Trump, a man who has been politically active for over 30 years (and run for president 3 times), not a member of the political class.

Which kind of just gets to the heart of why his win is so baffling. It's not that the anger and frustration isn't understandable. It's that people bemoaning his election don't understand how he is any of the things people seem to think he is, because he isn't. He's as you put it "a middle finger to the establishment" as if POTUS is something we should be deciding based on spite.

**Kilkrazy**

generalgrog wrote:
The American people just gave a big middle finger to washington DC. By electing Trump and rejecting Clinton part Deux, they just took a political baseball bat to the political class.

The people on here that are bemoaning the election of Trump dont really understand the anger and frustration the American people hold right now.

GG

The anger and frustration that 35 million of the American people hold right now.

Let's remember the popular vote was actually relatively evenly divided, and turnout was not excellent. I think one has to assume that it is Trump's supporters who have the particular soft-on for Washington.

We'll have to wait for the official figures to judge how Clinton did as official DNC candidate compared to previous elections.

**A Town Called Malus**

LordofHats wrote:
generalgrog wrote:
The American people just gave a big middle finger to washington DC. By electing Trump and rejecting Clinton part Deux, they just took a political baseball bat to the political class.

The people on here that are bemoaning the election of Trump dont really understand the anger and frustration the American people hold right now.

GG

Under no conception of the term is Trump, a man who has been politically active for over 30 years (and run for president 3 times), not a member of the political class.

Which kind of just gets to the heart of why his win is so baffling. It's not that the anger and frustration isn't understandable. It's that people bemoaning his election don't understand how he is any of the things people seem to think he is, because he isn't. He's as you put it "a middle finger to the establishment" as if POTUS is something we should be deciding based on spite.

Not to mention that many of those people also voted for the incumbents in congress who are the ones who have done absolutely nothing to actually represent them, instead wasting time passing bills to repeal ACA which they know will get vetoed and other publicity stunts.

**tneva82**

generalgrog wrote:
The American people just gave a big middle finger to washington DC. By electing Trump and rejecting Clinton part Deux, they just took a political baseball bat to the political class.

The people on here that are bemoaning the election of Trump dont really understand the anger and frustration the American people hold right now.

GG

Oh reason is easy to see. Doesn't make it good. It's even more infuriating when you think that all those angry white middle class who have lost their job made worst possible choice to help them out. Trump will be absolute disaster for US economics resulting even more middle class being turned to poor and poor getting stepped even more.

They late emotions run awok and picked up self destructive choise...

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

I once joked that it would be funny to see Trump take off his toupee and hurl it at Putin during a meeting....

That might actually happen....

**Prestor Jon**

Co'tor Shas wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Co'tor Shas wrote:
So she won tge popular but lost the EC? It's crazy that this has happened twice in the last two decades. You'd almost think that it's ans outated system thwt no longer works...

It's not outdated, it was deliberately designed that way to stop the 'fury of democracy,' the mob rule, from engulfing the new Republic.

Well, considering that the complete opposite has has happened, I don't think so. Back when it was legilatures that selected the electors, sure, but if the people select them, then this gak happens.

You can't control outcomes that's why you evaluate the process not the outcome. There's nothing wrong with the way the Electoral College works now and has worked throughout the course of US history. Clinton's popular vote margin is due to her winning populous states like California by a wide margin but Trump had narrow victories in a majority of states and earned more Electoral points. That's not a system flaw that's the benefit of valuing all states not just the populous ones and avoiding direct democracy which is just a euphemism for mob rule and the tyranny of the majority.

People didn't vote the way you personally wanted them to but that's no reason to scrap the system and design a new one that's configured to deliver an outcome that you do like. There's nothin wrong with Trump winning. People voted, rules were followed, laws were obeyed the election was fair and Trump won. You don't have to like it but your personal displeasure isn't proof of a broken system.

**Smacks**

Witzkatz wrote:
Many countries in the Western world seem to have large blocks of frustrated voters, taking any candidate or proposal to challenge "the system".

Unfortunately, many of these voters seem to be pouring their frustrations into supporting right wing agendas that ultimately won't serve the best interests of ordinary working people. Brexit is a good example of that. For the ordinary person all it has done is made things more expensive. First holidays, now food and electronics are starting to creep up, next it will be rent, and after looking at the recent government talks with Nissan, it looks like taxes will also be going up in order to butter up foreign companies with subsidies and tax breaks. All of this is going to make life considerably worse for ordinary people, not better.

**tneva82**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
After Brexit, nothing really has changed for Germany. It's still there, and it continues to have a close relationship with Great Britain. Long may that last.

Point is, Germany will be fine even with Trump as president....

Brexit hasn't yet happened so inapt comparison. Article hasn't even been evoked yet. Expect changes when Brexit is finally done. UK out of one market for one. And UK banks with less access they have been depending on as well.

**generalgrog**

Well with a republican house and senate. Obamacare is done. Looking forward to seeing what they come up with to replace that.

GG

**Prestor Jon**

tneva82 wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
After Brexit, nothing really has changed for Germany. It's still there, and it continues to have a close relationship with Great Britain. Long may that last.

Point is, Germany will be fine even with Trump as president....

Brexit hasn't yet happened so inapt comparison. Article hasn't even been evoked yet. Expect changes when Brexit is finally done. UK out of one market for one. And UK banks with less access they have been depending on as well.

Not to wander too far off topic but I thought the U.K. Courts ruled that parliament had to vote on Brexit happening even after the referendum sonit may not happen at all now.

**Kilkrazy**

The key thing is whether Trump will put his money where his mouth is.

If Trump really means what he said in his acceptance speech, he might actually turn into a statesman who can make a positive difference.

**Herzlos**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

In many ways, it's a vindication of democracy. A huge turn out, and the USA elected the son of a poor Scottish immigrant as President.

The American dream alive and well?

The USA elected the billionaire son of a poor Scottish immigrant. It's an important distinction. He'd never have been nominated if he didn't inherit billions.

**Co'tor Shas**

Listening to Trump speaking on the radio, he's surpisingly conciliatory. Talking about working together, complimenting HRC on her "hard fought campaign". I expected gloating.

**Herzlos**

Co'tor Shas wrote:
Listening to Trump speaking on the radio, he's surpisingly conciliatory. Talking about working together, complimenting HRC on her "hard fought campaign". I expected gloating.

I wonder if someone has slapped some sense into him. I'm surprised he isn't calling for her to hand herself in to the authorities already.

**A Town Called Malus**

Co'tor Shas wrote:
Listening to Trump speaking on the radio, he's surpisingly conciliatory. Talking about working together, complimenting HRC on her "hard fought campaign". I expected gloating.

Wait until they give him his twitter back.

**Co'tor Shas**

Herzlos wrote:
Co'tor Shas wrote:
Listening to Trump speaking on the radio, he's surpisingly conciliatory. Talking about working together, complimenting HRC on her "hard fought campaign". I expected gloating.

I wonder if someone has slapped some sense into him. I'm surprised he isn't calling for her to hand herself in to the authorities already.

Maybe the people saying this was all an act were right all along.

**Ketara**

Psienesis wrote:
Which is why I blame the DNC.

You know you've spent too long reading naval history when you read this, and your first thought is 'What's the Director of Naval Construction got to do with it?'

**Smacks**

Kilkrazy wrote:
The key thing is whether Trump will put his money where his mouth is.

If Trump really means what he said in his acceptance speech, he might actually turn into a statesman who can make a positive difference.

That would certainly be nice. He is quite an old man now, so it's possible that he might be willing to put his political legacy before personal gain, and genuinely try to bring in reforms that help people... On the other hand, he's already said he wants to slash corporation tax, which is obviously a very bad idea, and doesn't bode well, at all, for working and middle class tax payers, who will no doubt be expected to pick up the slack.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Kilkrazy wrote:
The key thing is whether Trump will put his money where his mouth is.

If Trump really means what he said in his acceptance speech, he might actually turn into a statesman who can make a positive difference.

I've said it once, I'll say it again: after 15 years of disaster in Iraq and Afghanistan, Trump's foreign policy is exactly what the USA needs right now, if he holds true to his earlier comments.

Sensible, pragmatic, realpolitik. Don't run towards a battle, but never run away from one, either....

That will hopefully be Trump's foreign policy.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Herzlos wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

In many ways, it's a vindication of democracy. A huge turn out, and the USA elected the son of a poor Scottish immigrant as President.

The American dream alive and well?

The USA elected the billionaire son of a poor Scottish immigrant. It's an important distinction. He'd never have been nominated if he didn't inherit billions.

He spent less money on the campaign trail than Clinton.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Prestor Jon wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
After Brexit, nothing really has changed for Germany. It's still there, and it continues to have a close relationship with Great Britain. Long may that last.

Point is, Germany will be fine even with Trump as president....

Brexit hasn't yet happened so inapt comparison. Article hasn't even been evoked yet. Expect changes when Brexit is finally done. UK out of one market for one. And UK banks with less access they have been depending on as well.

Not to wander too far off topic but I thought the U.K. Courts ruled that parliament had to vote on Brexit happening even after the referendum sonit may not happen at all now.

Brexit will happen. Parliament has made clear it won't block it, and even if they did, a pro-BREXIT ticket will sweep them away at a snap election.

Most MPs represent areas that voted to leave....

**tneva82**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
The key thing is whether Trump will put his money where his mouth is.

If Trump really means what he said in his acceptance speech, he might actually turn into a statesman who can make a positive difference.

I've said it once, I'll say it again: after 15 years of disaster in Iraq and Afghanistan, Trump's foreign policy is exactly what the USA needs right now, if he holds true to his earlier comments.

Sensible, pragmatic, realpolitik. Don't run towards a battle, but never run away from one, either....

That will hopefully be Trump's foreign policy.

Ah the "I'm going to bomb them out of existance" policy. Yeah that's going to work better.

He's no anti-war president. And those bombs can be nuclear in type. That's going to up the antes.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

tneva82 wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
The key thing is whether Trump will put his money where his mouth is.

If Trump really means what he said in his acceptance speech, he might actually turn into a statesman who can make a positive difference.

I've said it once, I'll say it again: after 15 years of disaster in Iraq and Afghanistan, Trump's foreign policy is exactly what the USA needs right now, if he holds true to his earlier comments.

Sensible, pragmatic, realpolitik. Don't run towards a battle, but never run away from one, either....

That will hopefully be Trump's foreign policy.

Ah the "I'm going to bomb them out of existance" policy. Yeah that's going to work better.

He's no anti-war president. And those bombs can be nuclear in type. That's going to up the antes.

Trump may be a lot of things, but nobody is hitting the red button.

That was campaign talk.

**wuestenfux**

generalgrog wrote:
Well with a republican house and senate. Obamacare is done. Looking forward to seeing what they come up with to replace that.

Maybe nothing as it has been before.

I guess Merkel is a bit worried about the first meeting with Trump. After all, he criticized Germany heavily for its refuge politics and he was not (fully) wrong.

**Frazzled**

generalgrog wrote:
Well with a republican house and senate. Obamacare is done. Looking forward to seeing what they come up with to replace that.

GG

Well to salvage a bright spot out of this- no more Clintons, no more Bushes. Thats almost worth it.

Maybe, just maybe, some of the fundamental structural problems facing this country will be addressed.

**tneva82**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Trump may be a lot of things, but nobody is hitting the red button.

That was campaign talk.

Based on what evidence? You claim supernatural powers to see into his mind?

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

I spoke to my elderly father earlier. This is a man that lived through WW2 and other tough times in Britain such as the winter of discontent and dozens of major strikes that crippled the country.

His response to this was meh, as though it paled in comparison with the past.

In a way, I think he's right.

People are hurting, I understand, I've been there with elections, but there's nothing ordinary people like us can really do.

We'll be fine, I think....

**r_squared**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
....I know people are hurting, and there is talk of a divided nation, but we had two massive referendums in the UK, and the nation was supposed to be divided, but we came back together and reconciled. America will do the same......

I don't know which UK you're referring to that's "back together" and "reconciled", but it's certainly not the one I live in. Did you forget about the furor that erupted over the High Court rulings and the vitriol and bile being vented all over the media and Internet? The threats of rape and murder?
Those aren't the actions and opinions of a nation reconciled.