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A) What was the last date prior to this one at which america was great. That is if trump is about to make things great again they must have been great some previous point. When was this?
B) Have there been any other periods where america was not great and if so, when did they span?
C) Was america great in the period spanning March 4th, 1829 to April 12th 1861?
D) If America was great at some period in the past, for whom was it great?
July 16, 1969.
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
Nevelon wrote: Demographics are shifting away from them. Some Rs might see the writing on the wall and not embrace some of the party platforms that are stuck in the past. Party politics can only go so far. And when Trump is not able to deliver the promises he made on the campaign trail, and turns out to be another regular lying politician, I think the angry mob he mobilized is going to turn on him, and the rest of the party.
Next 4 years are going to be interesting.
Well Finland might have paralers for that. There's populist party that got into goverment with like 2nd largest votes. Now being in goverment and their election promises being broken their support has halved being lower than couple parties they despise.
Of course we have seen reliability of polls...Just cause they went from 19% or so to 9% or so doesn't mean they won't be back at 19% at next elections. Stupid voting for populism isn't american only thing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/09 18:27:22
Hehe, now the question turns to why what many have taken to calling the [crap]-finger Midas was unable to deliver his coalition to Hillary.
He's Never been able to transfer his personal popularity to others. Suddenly the lesson of two mid-term elections is a mystery? Ah, media, dear sweet idiotic media...
You really weren't kidding about not living in reality. There is literally nothing that I could present that could shake your faith in your narrative, a narrative that requires you to simultaneously believe there are tens of millions of irredeemably racist, atavistic people in the USA... but that you are the tolerant, enlightened one.
.
No, no, no. You're the first one talking about racism. I never said that in my posts on this day, not once. See? Your Own Narrative is coming back.
What I actually believe is that the USA are filled of plenty of very, very gullible people actually thinking a man like Trump can be trusted and very eager to believe whatever lies the Republican Media Machine will tell them.
That's not the same. Seeing the difference? Oh well, it doesn't matter, I bet you already made your mind up.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/09 18:29:08
SirDonlad wrote: Just like us brits, the lower echelons of the American people have been ignored when it comes to foreign policy direction and economic policy; when you do that, you force them into action in the ballot box since there is no other recourse.
And just like you brits they voted the worst possible choice for them. Lower echelon americans want change? Only change Trump is going to do is trod them even further down. His policies are all geared to make life of anybody but rich even worse. Less money for them, less work. Anything to get the rich guys even more rich.
feeder wrote: Well done, America. You have shown the way forward is not facts, but feelings, not policy, but platitudes, not logic, but fear.
I'd like to congratulate anti-intellectualism, paranoia and cognitive dissonance for their victory last night. It was a hard fought campaign, kudos to their herculean efforts to sway the American voter.
America has elected the first man insecure and crass enough to feel the need to defend the size of his penis on national TV.
It's definitely a day of shame in my book. But he won, time to break out the liquor.
Some good comments Co'tor, though this one could work.
★ SECOND, a hiring freeze on all federal employees to reduce the federal workforce through attrition (exempting military, public safety, and public health).
★ THIRD, I will direct the Secretary of the Treasury to label China a currency manipulator.
Yay, let's start a trade war!
Only hours after being elected, long before he is even inaugurated and Trump wants to pick a fight with China. He even gives the Chinese a heads up on what he is going to do, while Obama is still in charge until mid January so he loses any benefit of surprise from his action. The Chinese don't need a two month window to prep a response, yet they just had one. Furthermore as this is in his victory speech it will look to the Chinese to be core directional policy for the White House for the next four years, while Trump is saying crap to a jeering crowd Beijing will take the comments/warnings deadly seriously.
This verbal belligerency is Reaganesque, yet anyone who isnt both senile and in the Kremlin could tell Reagan was joking, Trump on the other hand is forwarding serious policy, and economic warfare with the Middle Kingdom is not a good day one start position.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
What I actually believe is that the USA are filled of plenty of very, very gullible people actually thinking a man like Trump can be trusted and very eager to believe whatever lies the Republican Media Machine will tell them.
It's not gullibility, it's frustration and anger. And although I'm on the left, it's easy to see that many of the people who voted for Trump have every right to be infuriated with government at the moment.
I just hope something constructive comes out of it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/09 18:39:53
You really weren't kidding about not living in reality. There is literally nothing that I could present that could shake your faith in your narrative, a narrative that requires you to simultaneously believe there are tens of millions of irredeemably racist, atavistic people in the USA... but that you are the tolerant, enlightened one.
.
No, no, no. You're the first one talking about racism. I never said that in my posts on this day, not once. See? Your Own Narrative is coming back.
What I actually believe is that the USA are filled of plenty of very, very gullible people actually thinking a man like Trump can be trusted and very eager to believe whatever lies the Republican Media Machine will tell them.
That's not the same. Seeing the difference? Oh well, it doesn't matter, I bet you already made your mind up.
Hehe, well, I conflated your consistent claim of "angry" people with the consistent claims by others of racism. Mea maximum culpa.
That aside, you have actually diagnosed your own illness: "That doesn't keep me from thinking there are also a lot of people living in their own delusions because it's convenient for them."
To be fair, none of your criticisms seem particularly politically sophisticated or well informed. That's why they rely on amusing ephemera such as "Republican Media Machine". When speaking of delusions, that you think that tenable when analysis of support by media personnel shows that "Nearly all of that money — more than 96 percent — has benefited Clinton".
I'm sure you have an averral to that. I'm sure it will make sense to you. So just assume, if I don't respond, your wit has won me over.
Buzzsaw wrote: What monsters these people are... Why, what civilized nation doesn't fine people for refusing to acquiesce to the abasement of the place of worship! It's like the dark ages!
Yeah stepping on basic human rights is soooooo good. Especially funny as that violates also the supposed gods word in the bible. You could even say anybody who is against LGBT is against gods word and you would be 100% correct if you assume bible is gods word(and if not then using up bible against LGBT is even more silly)
Huh. You know, you've said a lot of funny things in this thread, but this joke you need to explain to me. Is it like one of those 'Thou Shall Not Kill' pure misapprehensions, or a more circuitous argument?
Bible claims humans are made by god.
This means human is born the way he is because God willed him.
If somebody is gay he's so from the birth.
Ergo god decided this person is gay.
Therefore either god decided this person is fated to not be able to marry just out of spite(wasn't god supposed to be loving person?) or he intended for them to be able to marry and therefore any discrimination against that is going against god's law.
That's assuming you believe in the fairy tale written by humans. If you don't using that fairy tale as arqument against gay marriages is even more stupid.
You really should read the bible if you are planning to use it for any arquments.
What I actually believe is that the USA are filled of plenty of very, very gullible people actually thinking a man like Trump can be trusted and very eager to believe whatever lies the Republican Media Machine will tell them.
It's not gullibility, it's frustration and anger. And although I'm on the left, it's easy to see that people so many of the people who voted for Trump have every right to be infuriated with government at the moment.
I just hope something constructive comes out of it.
Yes, frustration and anger. Guess they will not be frustrated and angry to be used as tools with this one as well, because, you know, Trump will be now the embodiment of the government. It's like the American Silvio Berlusconi or Mussolini, really.
So, yes, I call it being "very gullible". Because to me, it's quite clear they didn't even try to see on long term. They just focused on their anger and nothing else.
And yes, I understand where it comes from. It's not that hard to see once you think about it. But it doesn't justify the end result. It just explains how it came to this, that's all.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/09 18:44:44
d-usa wrote: Well, whembly managed to stay #NeverTrump. So I donated the cost of a DCM to the Fisher House in St. Louis instead.
At least something amongst all this clusterfeth had a satisfying conclusion.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
Yes, frustration and anger. Guess they will not be frustrated and angry to be used as tools with this one as well, because, you know, Trump will be now the embodiment of the government. It's like the American Silvio Berlusconi or Mussolini, really.
So, yes, I call it being "very gullible". Because to me, it's quite clear they didn't even try to see on long term. They just focused on their anger and nothing else.
And yes, I understand where it comes from. It's not that hard to see once you think about it. But it doesn't justify the end result. It just explains how it came to this, that's all.
Is the left just as gullible for believing Obama was going to close gitmo? Was the left gullible for believing in "hope" and "change"?
Buzzsaw wrote: What monsters these people are... Why, what civilized nation doesn't fine people for refusing to acquiesce to the abasement of the place of worship! It's like the dark ages!
Yeah stepping on basic human rights is soooooo good. Especially funny as that violates also the supposed gods word in the bible. You could even say anybody who is against LGBT is against gods word and you would be 100% correct if you assume bible is gods word(and if not then using up bible against LGBT is even more silly)
Huh. You know, you've said a lot of funny things in this thread, but this joke you need to explain to me. Is it like one of those 'Thou Shall Not Kill' pure misapprehensions, or a more circuitous argument?
Bible claims humans are made by god.
This means human is born the way he is because God willed him.
If somebody is gay he's so from the birth.
Ergo god decided this person is gay.
Therefore either god decided this person is fated to not be able to marry just out of spite(wasn't god supposed to be loving person?) or he intended for them to be able to marry and therefore any discrimination against that is going against god's law.
That's assuming you believe in the fairy tale written by humans. If you don't using that fairy tale as arqument against gay marriages is even more stupid.
You really should read the bible if you are planning to use it for any arquments.
Not to be overly belittling, but one might presume that someone posting on a 40k forum would be familiar with the interpretive notion that 'the specific overrides the general'.
Beyond that, you really have... a quite poor idea of what is in the Bible, and an even poorer notion of the differences between Jewish and Christian doctrines (which, to be fair, is likely more a symptom of the former then a specific failing).
But let's be more broad: you seem to imagine a strange notion a man lives best in accord with divine law when... he acts according to nature? You... may be missing a step here, friend.
Put another way, I was saying that your opinion might be best explained by a misapprehension of what the Bible actually says. Which... kinda seems to be the case.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/09 18:55:03
jreilly89 wrote: What makes Christinaity so different from Islam, that it could not possibly be motivated by violence? The Crusades were a time where Christians believed "with excellent reasoning, that their faith endorses certain kinds of violent acts." How is that any different from what's currently going on with ISIS? The knights were purging infidels from the holy lands. God, doesn't that sound familiar?
Nothing. Violence is never really about religion. It's nutholes using religion for non-religious goals like money or power.
Extreme christianity is not pretty sight either.
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Prestor Jon wrote: Religion aren't immune to being interpreted to condone/promote violence depending on who's doing the preaching. Currently, the world seems to be having a problem with fundamentalist Islam being used to promote/condone violence, that doesn't make Islam a unique religion or somehow more prone to violence than other religion but it's a reality that needs to be dealt with at this time. One major difference between current Islamic terrorists and the Crusades is that it's 2016 and Europe isn't invading Syria because Deus Vult whereas Muslim radicals are going on murder sprees in France while yelling Allahu Akbar. Different cultures are always going to clash but apparently some cultures/religions haven't recognized that we're not living in medieval times anymore.
Christianity has been used to justify violence despite bible saying it's bad. Buddhism has been used as well and that's teaching hurting other is same as hurting you because everybody is part of Mahavairocana(reality) so connected(like leaves are separate but are all connected via tree body).
There's not many religions that haven't been used to justify violence despite religion itself teaching it's bad. And probably none that ever won't be misused.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/09 18:59:38
Is the left just as gullible for believing Obama was going to close gitmo? Was the left gullible for believing in "hope" and "change"?
There was "hope" and "change", it's just it wasn't as big as some people thought it would. There are dreams, and there is reality. Being in command doesn't mean you can do anything as you want, especially when Obama met so much resistance when he tried to pass the laws he really wanted.
Now with Trump...I find it astonishing that people would actually believe he will manage to do everything he said. Because some are clearly impossible in the real world as it is.
Be sure everything Obama tried to change for the best will soon be reduced to ash by the new administration.
NuggzTheNinja wrote: What a time to be alive! Hopefully Hillary is sharpening an old toothbrush in preparation for prison. (wishful thinking of course)
A few of his policies will be implementable, and the sillier ones (the wall, for example) will not. I think we'll end up in a good position.
If by good you mean improving economy ruined with poor&middle class trodden down and human rights taking huge step backwards...Sure. Guess you are correct. Me? I'm pro-life and pro-human right so that's not good position.
Yes, frustration and anger. Guess they will not be frustrated and angry to be used as tools with this one as well, because, you know, Trump will be now the embodiment of the government. It's like the American Silvio Berlusconi or Mussolini, really.
So, yes, I call it being "very gullible". Because to me, it's quite clear they didn't even try to see on long term. They just focused on their anger and nothing else.
And yes, I understand where it comes from. It's not that hard to see once you think about it. But it doesn't justify the end result. It just explains how it came to this, that's all.
Is the left just as gullible for believing Obama was going to close gitmo? Was the left gullible for believing in "hope" and "change"?
I think he tried and did as much as he could. He made a big impact on the number of people there, and while I don't know his private thoughts he often appears like he feels that this is one of his biggest failures.
Lets ask China how effective a massive wall was at keeping out foreign invaders.
Even in that example The Wall was more of an internal policy tool for internal direction, and during its actual construction there was less foreign aggression because nobody really wanted to mess with the sea of humanity constructing it.
Actually it was built to keep cattle of mongols out. No cattle, no food for mongol invaders who depended on their cattle. It did job good. But of course these days those wanting to go over aren't as dependant on having cattle along them...Trump is just hundreds of years behind times.
oldravenman3025 wrote: The problem in Europe isn't due solely to any desire "to belong". The issue is you have a large number of fighting-age males fleeing from warzones, many leaving their families behind. Fighting age males from a culture that doesn't share the secular and progressive values of most of Europe. They, and those that did come with their families, are not "immigrants" or "refugees". They won't settle in the nearest safe country. They want to go to Germany, Sweden, the United Kingdom, etc. where the social welfare payouts are generous and the bureaucrats aren't picky about who gets the "help". In other words, it's an invasion of "migrants" looking for freebies, supported by politicians and journalists who have the luxury of living in gated communities, can hire security (or are provided such by the taxpayers), and don't have to worry about sexual assault, violence, or their neighborhood becoming "culturally enriched" with self-styled "sharia patrols" and gangs of young migrant punks who don't even fear the police, whom they hold in contempt.
Now that's big pile of BS without mistake. Do you even KNOW personally any of those guys? I do.
Problems comes from both sides but as a rule of thumb vast majority of them just want chance for normal life. And for crimes...Funny fact: Most crimes by BIG factor in Finland comes from natives. Not migrants. And don't even THINK about "there's more natives than migrants" crap. That's already factored in. Refugees could triple their crime rate per 1000 and they would still be giving less things to do for police. And this isn't even cases where they are doing illegal activity but also where finnish people are throwing firebombs into their sleeping places.
America now is the time to reclaim your place back within the bosom of the British Crown! Repent of your rebellion and beg forgiveness!
Our beloved commander in chief and head of state is a wonderful strong woman who is dignified, gracious and humble. I'm sure if you publicly grovelled and begged for long enough she might let you back. She may have to consult Canada first so I hope you have been pleasant to them down the years.
Yes, frustration and anger. Guess they will not be frustrated and angry to be used as tools with this one as well, because, you know, Trump will be now the embodiment of the government. It's like the American Silvio Berlusconi or Mussolini, really.
So, yes, I call it being "very gullible". Because to me, it's quite clear they didn't even try to see on long term. They just focused on their anger and nothing else.
And yes, I understand where it comes from. It's not that hard to see once you think about it. But it doesn't justify the end result. It just explains how it came to this, that's all.
Is the left just as gullible for believing Obama was going to close gitmo? Was the left gullible for believing in "hope" and "change"?
I think he tried and did as much as he could. He made a big impact on the number of people there, and while I don't know his private thoughts he often appears like he feels that this is one of his biggest failures.
It's not so much Obama's failure as it is unreasonable expectations from people. PotUS really doesn't have the power to single handedly reform the federal govt and the office is designed that way. Down ballot races are in some ways more important to govt reform than the PotUS candidates at the top of the ticket as Congress needs to be the agent of meaningful change if we want tangible reforms to be enacted. Overall I don't think Obama was a bad president, healthcare was always going to be a mess and the ACA is a definitely a mixed bag but its not like I'd have great coverage at a lower premium if it never passed. Most presidencies really don't differ greatly from previous ones because it's rare to see a lot of change over in Congress, mostly we get the same people serving for long stretches and that creates entrenched interests that are hard to shift.
Is the left just as gullible for believing Obama was going to close gitmo? Was the left gullible for believing in "hope" and "change"?
There was "hope" and "change", it's just it wasn't as big as some people thought it would. There are dreams, and there is reality. Being in command doesn't mean you can do anything as you want, especially when Obama met so much resistance when he tried to pass the laws he really wanted.
Now with Trump...I find it astonishing that people would actually believe he will manage to do everything he said. Because some are clearly impossible in the real world as it is.
Be sure everything Obama tried to change for the best will soon be reduced to ash by the new administration.
Sure, I can understand all that. Obama certainly would have done more if he could have done more, Republican obstructionism being as ****** as it was/is.
The problem is that Hillary promised no change form that. So now we have a "republican" in the Presidency, and a Republican House and Senate. That at least points to some sort of change. I don't know what happens from here, but given how Trump wiped the floor with establishment Republicans on the way in, it seems ridiculous that he would go along with what they want. I have some hope that he affects a change on the republican party that's for the better. I get the feeling that Trump will be a lot harder on Republicans than Obama was.
If I could think of Trumps ambitions for anything, it would be as a builder. If the Feds can manage to actually act on infrastructure in a meaningful way, I'm all for it.
Edit:
And I have a really hard time believing that Trump actually wants to do everything he said. I think most of it was bluster and rhetoric to get attention, I think that's just his style.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/09 19:19:11
A lot of hate ITT for our new President of the United States
Lets see what he can do January 20th and after. I'm excited to see what the future has in store with the red seats in house, a solid senate, and what Obama's leaving office procedure is.
Buzzsaw - opinions on the new VP Pence?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/09 19:21:43
Buzzsaw wrote: Beyond that, you really have... a quite poor idea of what is in the Bible, and an even poorer notion of the differences between Jewish and Christian doctrines (which, to be fair, is likely more a symptom of the former then a specific failing).
Might be poor but clearly better than yours.
Bible claims humans are work of god. Therefore GOD decides who is gay and who is not.
If god is against gay marriages that would mean god thinks this person is never supposed to find a happy marriage.
Yet bible claims god is good and loving...That does not apply.
You really, really, REALLY should bother to read the bible. It's boring as hell(no surprise being very old fiction) but would make at least your arquments bit more sensible.
The Republicans won big....too big. Now they actually are stuck acting on their policies. They don't get to blame the liberals, they won't get rely on scare tactics about liberals. Even people in this forum will lose the ability to say "just as bad" as there is nobody to he as bad as. Republicans lost their get out of jail free card. For 4 years any failures are their fault. And IF they fail then the entire ideology will be a failure.
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